Tomiix Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yo guys, I just started playing. Maybe we should all play together. My steam is Tomiix1021 but my community ID ends with tomiix to make it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 There is a massive difference between not having downsides and not being totally f***ing retarded. The Phlogistinator has a massive downside in the lack of airblast (and the broken particles, but that's another thing) but the whole concept of the flamethrower seems to exclusively lower the pyro's necessary skill level. The secondary attack is easy, counter intuitive and requires what seems like far too much attention just for one person. Anyone playing against even a couple of not-so-aware players who has learned the very basics of pyro (to the degree of pressing WM1, pretty much) can fill a MMPH bar, and when it's fun the pyro has the ridiculous ability to get out of a situation in a way that should NEVER BE POSSIBLE. It enables a pyro at something like 10hp to not only survive, but possibly kill other players afterwards. It can be used as a ridiculous weapon of destruction against lesser skilled players, and a get-out-of-jail-free card akin to the dead ringer against more skilled players. As I already mentioned, the flame particle is inherently broken for the Phlogistinator as it does NOT show where the actual flame is, making it misleading how a pyro is firing and how the weapon works. As well as this, the weapon is EXTREMELY effective against even skilled players who are not sure how the weapon works yet, as it is so counter intuitive. The whole idea of taunting to receive a power-up would seem to suggest that the player has to be weak and heavily exposed before he can reap the benefits, but in a lot of cases the only thing that could kill a taunting Phlogistinator pyro is a spy. A lot of the time players may assume that the pyro is exposed and go for the kill, but there is no entirely clear indicator that he receives 90% (the tied highest bar invincibility, and tied with a borderline overpowered weapon at that) damage resistance. Since players will close in to maximise damage before the taunt is over, they are also likely to be killed once the taunt is over, especially if they instinctively fire all their ammo to try and kill the pyro before he can finish his taunt. This is not only frustrating in situations with Phlogistinator pyros but also in those where the power up is not necessarily involved - for example newer players may not be so aggressive against taunting players where they actually should be. Another problem is that people may often retreat against players using this weapon regardless of if they have charge or not (because there is NO CLEAR INDICATOR whatsoever, which means other players can't prepare for it) which allows the pyro to survive even when he is overextending or otherwise misplaying and should really be killed. Another thing to note is that spy is not even an excellent counter to the Phlogistinator taunt: it is relatively quick, may be done in areas where there is a lot of opposing spam and is done by a pyro forced into the WM1 playstyle, which likely means that any applicable spies are holding back against him in fear of being lit up until a stab opportunity presents itself. As the spy could be avoiding the pyro and going for other stabs, a lot of time he won't be around when the pyro taunts. Even then, as the pyro gets into third person to activate the ability, he gets a chance to look around and if he isn't under focus fire he may be able to turn behind him and kill anything that presents itself within half a second or so before resuming his rampage, including even a disguised spy if he is suspicious (or impulsive) enough to react instantly and beeline for the pyro. The taunt indicator and the crit buff that ensues after it also means that if the pyro is not killed by stickies or a spy or anything, enemies may flee for several seconds which reduces their spamming, killing and so on potential as well as helping his team stay alive (which could preserve an uber advantage for example, or prevent a kritz from outplaying an uber) and allow his team to push forward and gain ground with bearing on NO EFFORT from the pyro, and none from the team if they even have the slightest degree of coordination. In short, while the Phlogistinator may not be strictly overpowered compared to the wide degree of options the pyro has with the degreaser, axtinguisher and so on, it is a cheap counter intuitive weapon where the only solutions are really to rework it so it doesn't harm the experience so much, or to nerf it so that the counters to it are much more evident and that finally anyone with any degree of knowledge about the game realises that it's horrible so nobody uses this broken as f*** weapon. Sorry for the wall of text, I may do one on the Pomson at some point, although I think I would probably have a bit less to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice. Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='Kizzi' timestamp='1330017600' post='5836053'] but in a lot of cases the only thing that could kill a taunting Phlogistinator pyro is a spy. [/quote] My god the satisfaction from doing this is amazing. Hell, backstabbing anybody that taunts is amazing, but this has some special ring to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomiix Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Who wants to play right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 [quote name='Stylish Alastor' timestamp='1329975346' post='5835432'] It's the Backburner before the changes plus some more crap. And the Backburner did fine without the airblast. Mmmph is easy as hell to fill up. Just sit back with the flare gun for a good minute and boom, full Mmmmph. Also I love how you didn't say crap about the Pomson. Having trouble there bro? [/quote] You highlighted the Plog, not the P6K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 New update today:[QUOTE=Neobenedict;29387360]Team Fortress 2 - Added [url="http://i.imgur.com/aD0cC.png"]The Fast Learner[/url] - Fixed +randommap not working correctly on server startup - Fixed some instances of corrupted text when the save_replay key isn't bound - Fixed dedicated server console spew related to the Replay client and viewangles - Fixed a spelling error in a cp_fastlane material - Fixed team colors not working correctly for the second style of the Black Rose - Fixed Mann Co. Store item previews for paints and styles - Updated item descriptions to contain the name of the paint used to color them - Updated the Reggaelator - Added an LOD model - [url="http://i.imgur.com/0gUcu.png"]Added 3 styles[/url] - Updated cp_dustbowl - Adjusted Blue team's func_respawnroom in stage 1 to be flush against the door - 언어 파일 업데이트 [/QUOTE] Also, crate 39: [QUOTE=TheMcD;29388849] Overdose Loch-n-Load Knife After Eight A Mann's Mint Salty Dog Bloke's Bucket Hat [/QUOTE] F*** YEAH STRANGE OVERDOSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Shradow' timestamp='1330044540' post='5836717'] New update today: Also, crate 39: F*** YEAH STRANGE OVERDOSE [/quote] Hm. Sounds interesting... I'LL BE BACK.... AFTER EDITING THE WIKI! *Superman theme* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice. Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Voltaire' timestamp='1330041433' post='5836608'] You highlighted the Plog, not the P6K. [/quote] And you said you laughed at us because we were complaining about both of 'em. I also said "don't get me started on the Pomson" Face it that thing's unbalanced to hell and back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Stylish Alastor' timestamp='1330048072' post='5836827'] And you said you laughed at us because we were complaining about both of 'em. I also said "don't get me started on the Pomson" Face it that thing's unbalanced to hell and back. [/quote] Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd how is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 The Phlog's unbalanced, but it's neither OP nor is it very good compared to even the stock. It needs a rework, and the Pomson needs a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [size=8][b][u]IT DOES NOT NEED A NERF![/u][/b][/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 The Pomson is OP, if only slightly. I love it to death and use it plenty, but I can still tell it needs some change. [url="http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560334"]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560334[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 NOT SURE IF PEOPLE ARE RAGING >.> OR JUST VERY STUPID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Well, seeing as the Engineer players complain about it the most behind only the Medic players, I say neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Look, prove to me, that it is reasonably OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Drains 10% Uber Pierces enemies Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 It's the bison, but with Uber. So? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheComposer Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 So basically the Pomson can break spies, yet it's not OP. I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 The funny part is that most people don't have a problem with the cloak drain, except for the fact that it's bugged and will hit and drain a Spy multiple times from one shot, which will be fixed sometime. It's the Uber drain that uber-controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheComposer Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Well I've always thought that there needed to be a better counter against uber spamming medics. I do like the idea of getting rid of the pierce, makes it too easy to weaken the entire other team if it's a corridor. And please remember this, while the pomson doesn't get to many kills on its own, this is TEAM Fortress 2, and it makes the other team more easily slaughtered, since it can hit anyone down a hallway, thanks to the pierce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice. Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Voltaire' timestamp='1330051561' post='5836979'] Look, prove to me, that it is reasonably OP. [/quote] Why should we go head over heels trying to convince you? You should be convincing us that it's balanced, kid. And if I have to say a reason, Uber Drain. That shut just ain't right. I'm fine with cloak drain. It's cool. But the uber thing is so unfair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbaron Larry Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 The Pomson is pretty damn OP. I put a sentry up on that corner between the spawn and the intel entrance on top of the stairs and guard the doorways with my Pomson and I'm unbreakable. Although it's worse at long range due to its slow projectile speed, but who needs long range on an Engie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 I run the Short Circuit in all my Engineer loadouts save for my Battle Engy, and paired with the Pomson I have yet to lose my nest using the loadout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Honestly I think the Pomson wouldn't be anywhere near as bad if they just removed the uber drain and fixed the cloak drain so it worked how it's supposed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull3tM0nk3y Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 [quote name='Stylish Alastor' timestamp='1330057789' post='5837179'] Why should we go head over heels trying to convince you? You should be convincing us that it's balanced, kid. And if I have to say a reason, Uber Drain. That shut just ain't right. I'm fine with cloak drain. It's cool. But the uber thing is so unfair. [/quote] [quote name='LarryMudkipz' timestamp='1330062856' post='5837287'] The Pomson is pretty damn OP. I put a sentry up on that corner between the spawn and the intel entrance on top of the stairs and guard the doorways with my Pomson and I'm unbreakable. Although it's worse at long range due to its slow projectile speed, but who needs long range on an Engie? [/quote] Have you tried paying with it in pro servers? You can't live 30 seconds! Look, with the Sc, and EE, it is really good, but not OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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