3-0 Banlist Logic

[NumberCruncher]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313732098' post='5454423'] Coelacanth isn't a problem, Fishborg is.[/quote]

fix'd.

Also want to point out Cloudian Quasar only needs one discard to go Quasar, so it doesn't [i]technically[/i] need Librarian at all. And even if you hit Formula, the deck has Mist Wurm as a fallback. Cloudian Quasar is going to be a top teir deck in your list until you drop the Fishborg. At this point, Coelicanth can go back to 3 and nobody will use it anyway.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Ravenous Black' timestamp='1313732431' post='5454434']
See, the problem is, it's STILL a renewable tuner that pairs up well with Oyster Meister.

So, if it's so blameless, why is it @0 on the nw list, when Formula and Librarian, used in MORE decks than Fish, at 1?
[/quote]
See, you finally had something when you brought up how he's a reusable tuner and since most other reusable tuner are at 0 (PSZ, Spore, Glow) he would be next in line. Then you used Konami's list to support your point and you made me facechainsaw.

Seriously, did you just use the KONAMI list to defend your point. We're talking about the same list that brough BLS back, put Call at 2 and JD of all cards back at 3. Seriously, they have no idea what the hell they are doing. If they even had a small idea of how to make a list and how to properly make cards we wouldn't even need this thread.

Yes, I will concede that Fishborg is bad since unlike most of the reusable tuners (again, most of whom are at 0 anyway) you have no limit to the number of uses you can get out of him outside of cards in hand. But please, don't use the Konami list to defend your point.


[quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1313732572' post='5454439']
EDIT: You realize where this is Fishborg discussion is leading? You're going to have to continue banning cards just to keep Fishbrog around.
[/quote]
Like what, Formula or Meister? Those would seem to be the next two cards on the list to keep him "fair" but when your banning Meister to keep a card around you need to reexamine what your doing. Both Liberian and Giant Fish had other things make them broken. And even without Meister and Formula, Fishborg is still a very tuner that just won't quit.


[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1313735068' post='5454496']
fix'd.

At this point, Coelicanth can go back to 3 and nobody will use it anyway.
[/quote]
Um no. Giant Fish is still a problem. Drop one card to special summon 4 fish and then proceed to synchro/xyz and swing for game. That isn't good for the game, especially with XYZs around making the simple idea of "ban the tuner targets" now out the window.

Using current meta example and experience won't carry over to a totally remade ban list since everything you know about the game is wrong. You have no idea how good the deck built around him may be when everything else has been cut down several levels.

[Manjoume Thunder]

@Flame Dragon:

Protip: Start playing yugioh because you have NO idea what you are talking about.

[NumberCruncher]

[quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1313737954' post='5454565']@Flame Dragon: Protip: Start playing yugioh because you have NO idea what you are talking about.[/quote]

^ Smartest thing I've heard the entire time I've been on this topic.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1313737954' post='5454565']
@Flame Dragon:

Protip: Start playing yugioh because you have NO idea what you are talking about.
[/quote]
Pro Tip: If your going to make claims, back them up. I'm all ears.

Also, I did, then I realized the game is horrible unless you have infinite money, and that was from a casual standpoint.

[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1313738265' post='5454573']

^ Smartest thing I've heard the entire time I've been on this topic.
[/quote]
It's funny, people keep saying I'm wrong, or this is stupid, or what have you, but few people have actually GIVEN A REASON. If you think I have no idea what I'm talking about then change that. I've clearly shown I'm big enough to admit I'm wrong and smart enough to figure things out so stop going "this is st00pid" and back it up.

[NumberCruncher]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313739013' post='5454585'] Pro Tip: If your going to make claims, back them up. I'm all ears. Also, I did, then I realized the game is horrible unless you have infinite money, and that was from a casual standpoint. It's funny, people keep saying I'm wrong, or this is stupid, or what have you, but few people have actually GIVEN A REASON. If you think I have no idea what I'm talking about then change that. I've clearly shown I'm big enough to admit I'm wrong and smart enough to figure things out so stop going "this is st00pid" and back it up.[/quote]

Your list is trash, you have no gauge on what the big combo cards in a deck are. You think stall is god. You think Cloudians are horrible. You contradict your own statements. You refuse to take advice from people who know more about the game than you do...

Need I go on?

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1313739350' post='5454590']

Your list is trash, you have no gauge on what the big combo cards in a deck are. You think stall is god. You think Cloudians are horrible. You contradict your own statements. You refuse to take advice from people who know more about the game than you do...

Need I go on?
[/quote]
That isn't my list. I'm simply explaining why those cards are put where they are. Hell, I've said several times I disagree with some things on the list. Also, calling it trash CLEARLY means it's trash. I mean it's not like I've been defending the changes while you just go "that's st00pid."

I don't know the new cards, and since most of the cards I've defended have been old then I know what I'm talking about in regards to them.

Um...no? But to much stall isn't fun, and that is why it's hit. Personally I think the stall creatures could be left alone, but I understand why they wouldn't be. Being forced to have removal at the ready isn't good since you won't always have it and you won't always find it in a timely manner.

How in the hell do you get the idea that I think Cloudians are horrible? I never said that and 2 times you brought them up I never even made a comment about them.


While I don't think I have, I more then likely could have. Please show me.


[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313735213' post='5454500']
Yes, I will concede that Fishborg is bad since unlike most of the reusable tuners (again, most of whom are at 0 anyway) you have no limit to the number of uses you can get out of him outside of cards in hand. But please, don't use the Konami list to defend your point.
[/quote]
Clearly I don't take other people's advice.

[NumberCruncher]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313740091' post='5454608'] That isn't my list. I'm simply explaining why those cards are put where they are. Hell, I've said several times I disagree with some things on the list.[/quote]

Dude, you earnestly defended the most broken card on the no-longer-banlist, because you supposedly didn't realize that he was indefinite reusability. Except, of course, the only reason the "ever-so-broken" Coelicanth OTK was an OTK was [i]because [/i]of that part of fishborgs effect.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313740091' post='5454608'] How in the hell do you get the idea that I think Cloudians are horrible? I never said that and 2 times you brought them up I never even made a comment about them.[/quote]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313723705' post='5454098'] Several times I've said he should be banned. So, what else side from him breaks Fishborg?
[quote name='Ravenous Black' timestamp='1313725228' post='5454129']Cloudians use Fishborg. And Quasar with it. So hi.
[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313732098' post='5454423'] Because a card can be used in a few different decks means it's broken? [/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

He was the first one to bring it up. And you said that this deck should clearly be ignored in debating the validity of Fishborg Blaster Depite this being a teir 2 deck with everythin above it scoped away.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313740091' post='5454608'] Hell, I've said several times I disagree with some things on the list. While I don't think I have, I more then likely could have. Please show me.[/quote]

Ok! How about this one. You said you don't agree with some of the cards on the banlist and clearly nobody else did either. How about doing what anybody with two brain cells to rub together would do and try to [i]fix[/i] the banlist. That would have made for an entertaining experience that wouldn't lead to you defending stupid junk that you don't even think belong on the list.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313735213' post='5454500'] Yes, I will concede that Fishborg is bad since unlike most of the reusable tuners (again, most of whom are at 0 anyway) you have no limit to the number of uses you can get out of him outside of cards in hand.[/quote]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313740091' post='5454608']Clearly I don't take other people's advice.[/quote]

Good job. It only took you the better half of THREE DAYS to do it. You deserve a big hand.

[This Account is Unplayable]

Fine, I'll directly pose the question, since it's been ignored twice:

How can you make a 3-0 banlist with the basis of said list reducing luck, yet allow players to run cards in a number of copies less than 3 and more than 0? With the banlist logic used, they're getting too much luck if they draw said cards, so it's bad for the game.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Ravenous Black' timestamp='1313732431' post='5454434']
See, the problem is, it's STILL a renewable tuner that pairs up well with Oyster Meister.

So, if it's so blameless, why is it @0 on the nw list, when Formula and Librarian, used in MORE decks than Fish, at 1?
[/quote]
[size=8][b]READ FLAME DRAGON'S POST HE'S SAYING LIBRARIAN SHOULD BE BANNED!!![/b][/size]

[Blake]

[quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1313758033' post='5454799']
[size=8][b]READ FLAME DRAGON'S POST HE'S SAYING LIBRARIAN SHOULD BE BANNED!!![/b][/size]
[/quote]
THANK YOU FOR BEING HOURS LATE ON THAT.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Ravenous Black' timestamp='1313758745' post='5454817']
THANK YOU FOR BEING HOURS LATE ON THAT.
[/quote]
I figured it needed to be said when the arguement was going:

Librarian is broken @3!!
Librarian should be banned.
But Librarian is broken!!!
It should be banned.
It's broken!!!
etc. etc.

[Blake]

[quote name='Miror B.' timestamp='1313758891' post='5454822']
I figured it needed to be said when the arguement was going:

Librarian is broken @3!!
Librarian should be banned.
But Librarian is broken!!!
It should be banned.
It's broken!!!
etc. etc.
[/quote]
Yet Flame already had said it =/

In fact, if you read /at all/ I dropped the librarian argument then and there, when Flame pointed that out.

[.Rai]

Flame Dragon, your views are all wrong. You just 'came back' to Yu-Gi-Oh! from MTG and everyone knows the meta better.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313710835' post='5453741']
I like how you comment on PoD being at 0 when the list you made uses 3? Not only that but Glow-Up and Sorcerer are also banned on this list.

Now for list reasonings.


- Fishborg@3 [b]Is only a problem with the giant fish and he should be banned[/b]
- Gale the Whirlwind@3 [b]Did you see the other cards BW lost? It's a good card, not broken.[/b]
- Charge of the Light Brigade@3 [b]Being able to search for a card is bad? What[/b]
- Lumina@3 [b]It's like Zombie Master, but limited to an archetype. Plus LS lost a bunch of other cards.[/b]
- Lonefire@3 [b]That should be banned.[/b]
- Magician of Faith@3 [b]With all the broken targets banned, why should this be banned? However, this does need to be watched.[/b]
- Necro Gardna@3 [b]Because stopping 3 attacks that the opponent can see coming is so bad right?[/b]
- Avarice@3 [b]Recycling cards is that bad? Again, with most of the bad cards gone this is less of a problem. However, this would need to be watched.[/b]
- Reinforcement of the Army@3 [b]Why is searching up a creature bad when all the broken creatures are gone?[/b]
- Oppression@3 [b]Special Summons break yugioh, this can limit them.[/b]
- Exodias@3 [b]Head should be banned on this list.[/b]
- Foolish Burial@3 [b]Broken targets are banned.[/b]

- Spirit Reaper@0 [b]Stalling, stalling, everyone love stall. However, a case can be made for this to be at 3.[/b]
- Duality@0 [b]Because the decks being 37 cards is a good thing?[/b]
- Messenger of Peace@0 [b]Stall.[/b]
- Other random stall@0 [b]Stall isn't fun, especially in large amounts.[/b]
- Demise@0 [b]ARA I think was the problem.[/b]
- Cyber Dragon@0 [b]Free 2100 beaters aren't good for the game. However, I will say that a case can be made for this to stay.[/b]
- Cyber Twin@0 [b]Metamorphosis is at 3.[/b]
- Cyber End@0 [b]^[/b]
- Vayu@0 [b]Beatsticks from no where are good? [/b]
[/quote]

Fishborg: The big fish isn't the main problem. Fishborg is just stupid because it's a Tuner. Without Fishborg, there's no more Formula spam.
Gale: It isn't the point. Gale is used in every single anti-meta deck. It runs over anything with 2550 ATK or less =/
Charge: Hi, I like milling Necro Gardna, and create fodder for my DADs and Chaos Sorcerer and my BLS and my Judgment Dragon.
Lumina: This is only fine because Judgment Dragon's at 0. If it wasn't, then it would be stupid.
Lonefire: Yes.
Magician of Faith: Don't be stupid. It creates stupid amounts of advantage.
Necro Gardna: It has Warrior and DARK support. If it wasn't DARK, I wouldn't mind it at 3. It's chainable too.
Avarice: I like to recycle Tengu, Formula, Librarian, all my other Synchros, my milled boss monsters, all my Tuners and then draw 2. Yeah.
Reinforcement of the Army: It's a completely generic search. It's stupid. It searches everything. Would make certain things Tier 0.
Foolish Burial: TRIPLE DANDYLION.

Spirit Reaper: Whatever.
Duality: Because perfectly balanced searching that discourages OTKs with a +0 net result is OPed?
Messenger of Peace: You are killing about 30 Tier 3 decks by getting rid of this.
Random stall: It at least gives stall a chance against Synchro spam. I'd prefer stall to Synchro spam =/
Oppression: I've seen TenguPlants use Oppression. If it's at 3, the game becomes whoever can do their Synchroing then set Oppression first wins.
Demise: Duh.
Cyber Dragon: It will be destroyed next turn. Who cares?
Cyber Twin: Metamorphosis is the problem, duh.
Cyber End: ^
Vayu: Don't be stupid please =/


[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313722112' post='5454059']
Arcana Force 0 – the Fool [b]You have Fool on the list but not Marshmallon? They are basically the same, single cards that shut down the opponent's ability to attack until they draw into removal.[/b]
Arcanite Magician [b]My guess is because of how easy it is to abuse spell counters. Side from that idk[/b]
Blackwing Armor Master [b]It's like Marshmallon, only it eats close to 1/4 your life every time it hits you[/b]
Chain Strike [b]My guess is combos. Used right it can do a lot of damage very quickly[/b]
Five-Headed Dragon [b]FuFu is stupid with this, but with that banned Dragon's Mirror would be the only other reason. The question then becomes should 1 spell be able to make a 5K creature?[/b]
Gladiator Beast Gyzarus [b]It's stupidly easy to summon, Monarch size, kills 2 cards, and then continues to set up GB combos. Yea, you don't see that?[/b]
Gold Sarcophagus [b]More of a preference card. Some people don't like the ability to tutor up any card, even with a small delay.[/b]
Gorz the Emissary of Darkness [b]Rewards you for playing badly.[/b]
Gravity Bind [b]See, one card shouldn't shut down attacking. This more so because S/T are harder to get rid of then creatures.[/b]
Mage Power [b]Easily gives a huge boost at no cost. Especially with Heavy gone.[/b]
Magic Cylinder [b]At 3 the amount of damage this will end up doing is insane and I can't see a good argument for how it's good for the game[/b]
Pot of Duality [b]Card draw made to easy.[/b]
Rekindling [b]Please tell me your joking? You seriously don't see what this can do? OTK, Mass Synchro/XYZ should answer the question well enough.[/b]
Snipe Hunter [b]Pushes luck to much to be in a skill based format.[/b]
United We Stand [b]Massive ATK increase is massive. Even in a normal game this easily gives a 2400 boost. For one card, that is to much.[/b]
[/quote]

Arcana Force: It's terrible though =/ No-one uses it.
Arcanite: Why would you ban this? It's just a +0 really. -2 for the monsters to make it, +2 for the nuke. The monster will probably be destroyed next turn so I don't count it.
Blackwing Armor Master: =/ I wouldn't even make this my first priority when using Blackwings.
Chain Strike: Thank you for destroying a fun, skillful and creative deck.
Five-Headed Dragon: I wouldn't run this without Future Fusion now. FuFu was the problem, this was just FuFu's target for mass destruction.
Gyrazus: Yaaay! I like to kill an anti-meta deck whose nuke is actually not as good as other decks' bosses.
Sarco: Putting this at 3 is actually more intelligent as it will slow down the meta.
Gorz: No, you just make sure you have an empty field then Synchro for Level 8s =/ Not for the reasons you said.
Gravity Bind: It will be destroyed by Dust Tornado, Heavy Storm, Mystical Space Typhoon.
Mage Power: He didn't ban Heavy =/
Magic Cylinder: This is only good in burn =/
Rekindling: Flamvells don't even top. But I can see why at 0.
Snipe Hunter: To be honest, the discard is more useful =/
United We Stand: It's bad except in Vylons.

[arkel]

Updated list in OP. Guys, you have to remember I made this list off the top of my head so of course there will be mistakes in it. Flame Dragon / Pika / Crab, feel free to point out anything else I missed.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313739013' post='5454585']
Also, I did, then I realized the game is horrible unless you have infinite money, and that was from a casual standpoint.[/quote]
But all the cool cards have been re-printed in lower rarities at some point.

[Dr. Cakey]

Also, DN.

The problem is that you (a collective "you" to everybody espousing the 3-0 banlist logic) are saying, "this theory will fix YGO". And we say, "list pl0x?". Then we get a list and go, "lolwat". And you go, "no but u c i not know ygoz anymore". Which raises the question, "why are you designing a list when you're 2+ formats behind?". Basically since the advent of Solemn Warning, the general playstyle has changed completely - so completely that Mirror Force is rarely run, because field commitment is avoided like the plague. Now that Heavy is back and MST is @3, this trend may/probably will reverse itself.

EDIT: In other words,

[media='']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKVTmx1zos8[/media]

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1313742018' post='5454633']
Dude, you earnestly defended the most broken card on the no-longer-banlist, because you supposedly didn't realize that he was indefinite reusability. Except, of course, the only reason the "ever-so-broken" Coelicanth OTK was an OTK was [i]because [/i]of that part of fishborgs effect.
[/quote]
Last I check Coelicanth can still OTK with the Level 4 Fish Tuner. And now with XYZ he can use any number of cards. Coelicanth was keeping me from actually looking at what Fishborg did. When I did, I admitted I was wrong and said he should be axed.


[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1313742018' post='5454633']

He was the first one to bring it up. And you said that this deck should clearly be ignored in debating the validity of Fishborg Blaster Depite this being a teir 2 deck with everythin above it scoped away.
[/quote]
I never said it should be ignored. I didn't know what the deck could do so I simply assumed it was a strong deck not broken. Again just because a good deck uses good cards doesn't mean it's broken. If you think he so bad he should be banned explain why don't just say "o this deck uses it."



[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1313742018' post='5454633']

Ok! How about this one. You said you don't agree with some of the cards on the banlist and clearly nobody else did either. How about doing what anybody with two brain cells to rub together would do and try to [i]fix[/i] the banlist. That would have made for an entertaining experience that wouldn't lead to you defending stupid junk that you don't even think belong on the list.
[/quote]
I was giving suggests on what fixes to make to the banlist every time I said I disagreed with a cards placement. Just because I thought not listing a couple cards was a mistake for the most card I've agree, or can understand, why the cards that are banned are banned.



[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1313742018' post='5454633']

Good job. It only took you the better half of THREE DAYS to do it. You deserve a big hand.
[/quote]
I thought it was two. And even then it wasn't until recently that I was given cause to think Fishborg would still be broken without Big Fish and the Liberian.

[quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1313763880' post='5454969']
Flame Dragon, your views are all wrong. You just 'came back' to Yu-Gi-Oh! from MTG and everyone knows the meta better.
[/quote]
I haven't come back into Yugioh at all. I just enjoy the metal stimulation ban list discussions give me. Also remember I've never known what the meta was really like in Yugioh and I've also been a part of list discussions. This is because when you mass ban this many cards and all the tier 1, 2, and 3 decks get hit meta knowledge can only do so much and your ability to evaluate cards alone becomes a lot more important.


[quote name='NumberCruncher' timestamp='1313742018' post='5454633']sak

Fishborg: The big fish isn't the main problem. Fishborg is just stupid because it's a Tuner. Without Fishborg, there's no more Formula spam. [b]That is why I'm I changed my mind and am now saying he should be banned[/b]
Gale: It isn't the point. Gale is used in every single anti-meta deck. It runs over anything with 2550 ATK or less =/ [b]Ok, so it can kill a big creature and gets used in a lot of decks. That can be said about a lot of cards. It's a good card, but what makes it too good to the point that it hurts the game?[/b]
Charge: Hi, I like milling Necro Gardna, and create fodder for my DADs and Chaos Sorcerer and my BLS and my Judgment Dragon.[b]Hi, this is a brand new ban list and DAD, CS, BLS, and JD are all banned. Also wouldn't removing Necro defeat the point of his effect?[/b][/b]
Lumina: This is only fine because Judgment Dragon's at 0. If it wasn't, then it would be stupid.[b]Anyone trying to make a 3-0 banlist would be very stupid not to put JD up almost as soon as they started making it.[/b]
Magician of Faith: Don't be stupid. It creates stupid amounts of advantage. [b]Ok, how? If you want a card banned explain what insane things it can do.[/b]
Necro Gardna: It has Warrior and DARK support. If it wasn't DARK, I wouldn't mind it at 3. It's chainable too.[b]Ok, most of the time being DARK and in the grave supports RFP cards, so again wouldn't that defeat the point of Necro?[/b]
Avarice: I like to recycle Tengu, Formula, Librarian, all my other Synchros, my milled boss monsters, all my Tuners and then draw 2. Yeah.[b]Use examples that aren't banned cards please. But I will say I can understand why Avarice might need to go. Just provide better support[/b]
Reinforcement of the Army: It's a completely generic search. It's stupid. It searches everything. Would make certain things Tier 0.[b]Ok, what cards is it going to search that are that bad? And what decks would be tier 0, taking account of all the changes this ban list would make?[/b]
Foolish Burial: TRIPLE DANDYLION. [b]As I've said Dandy could easily be put to 0.[/b]

Duality: Because perfectly balanced searching that discourages OTKs with a +0 net result is OPed? [b]Your forgetting this ban list creatures a slower format so losing out on special summoning for a turn isn't much of an issue. All this does is give extra speed and helps people find combos and kill cards much faster. Also, if you have a problem with this, why no hate for Allure at 0? And don't play the advantage card since lots of cards only result in +0s but are broken. [/b]
Messenger of Peace: You are killing about 30 Tier 3 decks by getting rid of this. [b]In case you haven't noticed a lot of decks are "killed" by this list. If the loss of one card kills a deck then it should die. Also, who's to say that stall wouldn't find another way.[/b]
Random stall: It at least gives stall a chance against Synchro spam. I'd prefer stall to Synchro spam =[b]Synchro spam isn't an issue if most of the spam cards are banned and along with most of the problem synchros[/b]
Oppression: I've seen TenguPlants use Oppression. If it's at 3, the game becomes whoever can do their Synchroing then set Oppression first wins.[b]Tengu is at 1 and Plants lost their best card. Oppression is bad for the game if you can go "summon a bunch of dude then use this" since you really can't do that anymore this is actually helping the game by fighting the little bit of swarm we have left.[/b]
Cyber Dragon: It will be destroyed next turn. Who cares? [b]Won't always die next turn. And again, I can see a case for this stying around. So please, if you think it should please make one.[/b]
Cyber Twin: Metamorphosis is the problem, duh.[b]Metamorphosis is a good card that becomes a problem based on what cards it can get. If those problem cards are gone it's simply good and creates and interesting deck type.[/b]
Vayu: Don't be stupid please =/ [b]Um, ok, why is what I said stupid?[/b]

Arcana Force: It's terrible though =/ No-one uses it. [b]It's Marshmallon and it won't be so bad when every other deck is weakened. Plus a lot of other ban cards see little play atm, doesn't mean they should be banned.[/b]
Arcanite: Why would you ban this? It's just a +0 really. -2 for the monsters to make it, +2 for the nuke. The monster will probably be destroyed next turn so I don't count it.[b]Again, don't use card advantage math to say if a card is good or bad. Secondly don't do it badly, this is a +1. Loss two creatures -2, get this from extra deck -1, kill two cards +1. End result is your up a card to your opponent. Again this isn't bad but with Spell Counters not hard to give to creatures this can result in even more advantage. And one more thing, don't use the "it's dead next turn so why care? It won't always be and the same argument can be said for BLS, so why ban him right?[/b]
Blackwing Armor Master: =/ I wouldn't even make this my first priority when using Blackwings.[b]Notice that the things BW make their first priority are gone.[/b]
Chain Strike: Thank you for destroying a fun, skillful and creative deck. [b]I honestly don't know much about Chain Strike potential, here I was simple explaining why I think it is on the list. Can't honestly say I agree or disagree.[/b]
Five-Headed Dragon: I wouldn't run this without Future Fusion now. FuFu was the problem, this was just FuFu's target for mass destruction. [b]Ok you won't, but other will. Some people won't mind using 3 deck spots on a card that can easily become a giant ass beatstick. But again, the question still remains, is that bad for the game to summong such a big creature so easily?[/b]
Gyrazus: Yaaay! I like to kill an anti-meta deck whose nuke is actually not as good as other decks' bosses.[b]Yay, this doesn't counter my point of the destruction this gives is insane and the way GBs combo off this worse. It doesn't help your case though when you bring up other boss monsters that also got list attention.[/b]
Sarco: Putting this at 3 is actually more intelligent as it will slow down the meta. [b]If this is played turn 1 not really. But again this is a personal choice people that make 3-0 lists make. I can't defend it as well as the person that actually made the list.[/b]
Gravity Bind: It will be destroyed by Dust Tornado, Heavy Storm, Mystical Space Typhoon. [b]Heavy Storm can't destroy a card if it's banned. And ok, now how many decks do you think will max out on those two and even then at 30 cards in deck you only have a 1/5 chance of drawing into it.[/b]
Mage Power: He didn't ban Heavy =/ [b]And that fact defeats my point above. Yea, he should ban heavy[/b]
Magic Cylinder: This is only good in burn =/ [b]JD is only good in LS.[/b]
Rekindling: Flamvells don't even top. But I can see why at 0. [b]Again, your using your current meta experience. When you make a totally new ban list everything you know is wrong since only a few things would carry over well from Konami meta to fan meta.[/b]
Snipe Hunter: To be honest, the discard is more useful =/ [b]The fact that it destroys a card more then half the time doesn't help[/b]
United We Stand: It's bad except in Vylons. [b]Again won't be bad in a new meta.[/b]
[/quote]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1313765276' post='5455009']
But all the cool cards have been re-printed in lower rarities at some point.
[/quote]
Yea, that definitely helps, but my problem was my decks simply were not getting new cards and if I wanted to keep playing I would need to spend a bunch of money to make a new deck.

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313785165' post='5455603']
Yea, that [b]defiantly[/b] helps, but my problem was my decks simply were not getting new cards and if I wanted to keep playing I would need to spend a bunch of money to make a new deck.
[/quote]
[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313785165' post='5455603']
that [b]defiantly[/b] helps
[/quote]
[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313785165' post='5455603']
[b]defiantly[/b]
[/quote]
[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313785165' post='5455603']
[size=6][b]defiantly[/b][/size]
[/quote]
[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313785165' post='5455603']
[size=8][b]defiantly[/b][/size]
[/quote]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1313788110' post='5455696']

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
[/quote]
lol.

As you can guess I meant "definitely". Fun fact about me, I have horrible spelling and the reason it isn't noticeable most of the time is because I always make sure that I'm not goofing up (my Mac's spell check helps). But every now and then I let something slip though the cracks because I'm going to fast or get the wrong word from my spell check (like what happened here). I'm human, it happens, but thanks for pointing that out.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313785165' post='5455603']
Yea, that definitely helps, but my problem was my decks simply were not getting new cards and if I wanted to keep playing I would need to spend a bunch of money to make a new deck.
[/quote]
Most decks are made up of at least 1 Secret Rare, 1-2 Ultras, 2-5 Supers, and the rest are Commons.
Really, now-a-days its [i]VERY[/i] easy to get your hands on some of the better cards out there.
Just use online stores =D

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1313789376' post='5455746']
Most decks are made up of at least 1 Secret Rare, 1-2 Ultras, 2-5 Supers, and the rest are Commons.
Really, now-a-days its [i]VERY[/i] easy to get your hands on some of the better cards out there.
Just use online stores =D
[/quote]
Your probably right, but I'm happy with MTG. Plus the WC games give me everything I could ever want without the hassle.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313790533' post='5455787']
Plus the WC games give me everything I could ever want without the hassle.[/quote]
That too, except you have to get the later games in order to get a more up-to-date card list.
But the obsessive person that I am, I like to play both IRL and in the games.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1313790598' post='5455789']
That too, except you have to get the later games in order to get a more up-to-date card list.
But the obsessive person that I am, I like to play both IRL and in the games.
[/quote]
I'd rather spend $35 a year to get all but the most recent cards then spend god knows how much to be up to date. Yugioh has become an interest now so I'm not going to be as willing to drop cash on it as I once was. And yea, virtual play is nice, but nothing beat IRL IMO.

[Blake]

Or, you know, you could just play online? ._.

I do't play IRL, though I might buy LC2 to get back into it (200 some cards with quite a few prizes, 30 bucks is the average price, do want)

It's not face-to-face, but it's still fun, and you can still follow the metagame.