Sleepy Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'd support the idea. I hate how the system works in yugioh. [spoiler=Explanation] -Pack is released and 3 archtypes are made. One is top tier and the other two are underwhelming. -Next pack is released and 3 more archtypes appear. One is again top tier and money maker, and the other 2 are bad again. There is also support for older archtypes from the past pack, but the support for the bad ones is random filler and doesn't improve them at all. The support for the top tier archtype from the last pack is also bad because Konami doesn't want them having too many good cards when its already top worthy. -Pack 3 is released with 3 more archtypes. The 2 bad archtypes from Pack 1 don't get anything else at this point. Top Tier archtype from pack 1 gets good new toys this time, but only to compensate for the ones the list just took away from them (made equally overpowered combos on purpose, but made pack 1's top tier Deck's strategy point into a different direction so its not [i]that[/i] obvious. As for the archtypes of pack 2, they were changed in the same way the archtypes of pack 1 were during pack 2's release. The actual 3 brand new archtypes debuting in pack 3 follow the same pattern. -Fast forward to pack 15. Those archtypes have been left alone for a while and some of its players actually quit playing at this point because there was nothing new for their Decks and they didn't want to abruptly change Decks every 2 or 3 packs after the work and money spent on gathering the one they had. It is at this time that out of the blue a good 3 years later, it is decided that a Deck will be revived for the player's sake with 1 or 2 usually. There is also the decision of a "fake" revival like with Six Samurai Decks. They are Six Samurais alright, but they are their own Deck instead of cards that complement the old ones. Who actually uses the original six for serious Decks? [/spoiler] Although yes, it might be too big of a mess already to effectively make significant changes. I used to be against the rotation system but, the current one is pretty much the same but disguised and expensive (unless low-level casual play or the almost unchanging traditional). I now agree. Custom banlist coming from players themselves sounds like something more accurate and possible. I like that idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='Ctrl+Alt+Win' timestamp='1313535397' post='5448667'] But what happens to old archtypes? They'll never be able to be played again, and making the game state always new. Which is accually quite boring. I personally love to play scraps. With this logic, one day I won't be able to play my favorite deck beacause of a stupid ratation rule? I call bs. This is EXACTLY why I stopped playing the Pokemon TCG. Old cards are always forbidden, despite there lack of power compared to todays pokemon meta. iirc, there is now a card, if you have 6 or more banished (lost zone) pokemon, you win. If konami would ever do this, I'm sure they would in fact lose alot of profit, since alot of players still enjoy old cards. No disrespect in any of my post, btw. [/quote] Game like MTG have multiple formats. Vintage something a lot like Traditional in yugioh and Legacy, something a lot like Advanced. After that they have two main formats where things cut off Extended (now modern) that used cards from the past 4 years (now has all cards from point X to now) and Standard, the main format where cards from the past two blocks are legal. So in October the block from 09 leaves. From there each of those formats gets supported by Wizards with each having several tournaments where all but Vintage are the main player. In the case of the World Championship the 3 main formats, Legacy, Modern, and Standard, all have a day dedicated to it with the team final having each member use a deck from each of the 3. They also reprint old cards all the time bringing back old cards into the fold. Also, remember, this only matters for people that play in tournaments. When you just play with friends you can use what ever deck you want. tl;dr: Games that adopt rotating formats are more then capable of allowing various amounts of cards into the formats. Also, their is this [quote name='sleepy' timestamp='1313538109' post='5448819'] I'd support the idea. I hate how the system works in yugioh. [spoiler=Explanation] -Pack is released and 3 archtypes are made. One is top tier and the other two are underwhelming. -Next pack is released and 3 more archtypes appear. One is again top tier and money maker, and the other 2 are bad again. There is also support for older archtypes from the past pack, but the support for the bad ones is random filler and doesn't improve them at all. The support for the top tier archtype from the last pack is also bad because Konami doesn't want them having too many good cards when its already top worthy. -Pack 3 is released with 3 more archtypes. The 2 bad archtypes from Pack 1 don't get anything else at this point. Top Tier archtype from pack 1 gets good new toys this time, but only to compensate for the ones the list just took away from them (made equally overpowered combos on purpose, but made pack 1's top tier Deck's strategy point into a different direction so its not [i]that[/i] obvious. As for the archtypes of pack 2, they were changed in the same way the archtypes of pack 1 were during pack 2's release. The actual 3 brand new archtypes debuting in pack 3 follow the same pattern. -Fast forward to pack 15. Those archtypes have been left alone for a while and some of its players actually quit playing at this point because there was nothing new for their Decks and they didn't want to abruptly change Decks every 2 or 3 packs after the work and money spent on gathering the one they had. It is at this time that out of the blue a good 3 years later, it is decided that a Deck will be revived for the player's sake with 1 or 2 usually. There is also the decision of a "fake" revival like with Six Samurai Decks. They are Six Samurais alright, but they are their own Deck instead of cards that complement the old ones. Who actually uses the original six for serious Decks? [/spoiler] Although yes, it might be too big of a mess already to effectively make significant changes. I used to be against the rotation system but, the current one is pretty much the same but disguised and expensive (unless low-level casual play or the almost unchanging traditional). I now agree. Custom banlist coming from players themselves sounds like something more accurate and possible. I like that idea. [/quote] Much like you said rotation would likely make people quite the game this format will also cause people to leave. I know I've made this very post in some fashion several times now, but this was the very reason I stopped playing yugioh. I just didn't feel the need to keep buying packs to get cards that none of my decks could use. So yes, you might love playing Scraps, but even if they are good, they will be passed over for a new flavor of the week and if your buying packs you won't get much of anything for the deck and if you play competitively your going to need a new deck to be able to compete. The ban list doesn't help matters since it can often kill whole archetypes by a few well placed banned allowing new archetypes to become the driving force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='arkel' timestamp='1313516378' post='5447648'] A 3-0 banlist is one in which almost all cards are at 3 or 0. I may be wrong, but I think the only 3-0 idealists left on the site are Pika, Flame Dragon, and myself. [/quote] And me! I don't necessarily want a drastic 3-0 list but I'd rather the decks that deserve to be killed the most be utterly annihilated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I'm not the one that likes Sraps xD but I agree with that comment. EDIT: random comment: The anti-ninja system at this forum really only works when it wants to O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='sleepy' timestamp='1313540988' post='5448927'] I'm not the one that likes Sraps xD but I agree with that comment. EDIT: random comment: The anti-ninja system at this forum really only works when it wants to O_o [/quote] I was still referring to [url="http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/user/341947-ctrlaltwin/"]Ctrl+Alt+Win[/url]. I like how you said what you said and used it as the example as to how Yugioh already rotates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 People are still using that incredibly outdated and discredited thing at the start of this thread from a post that I made like three years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='Crab Helmet' timestamp='1313541667' post='5448954'] People are still using that incredibly outdated and discredited thing at the start of this thread from a post that I made like three years ago? [/quote] Oh. My goodness. Gravy. Crab. Is in the TCG section. Out of curiosity, how much YGOz do you actually play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='Crab Helmet' timestamp='1313541667' post='5448954'] People are still using that incredibly outdated and discredited thing at the start of this thread from a post that I made like three years ago? [/quote] No matter how old it is, it still serves as a good starting point for 3-0 ideology and allows people the chance to refine it since it is so old. Granted I don't think most people want to, but that is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitysqrd Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='Ctrl+Alt+Win' timestamp='1313535397' post='5448667'] But what happens to old archtypes? They'll never be able to be played again, and making the game state always new. Which is accually quite boring. I personally love to play scraps. With this logic, one day I won't be able to play my favorite deck beacause of a stupid ratation rule? I call bs. This is EXACTLY why I stopped playing the Pokemon TCG. Old cards are always forbidden, despite there lack of power compared to todays pokemon meta. iirc, there is now a card, if you have 6 or more banished (lost zone) pokemon, you win. If konami would ever do this, I'm sure they would in fact lose alot of profit, since alot of players still enjoy old cards. No disrespect in any of my post, btw. [/quote] I think Pokemon does that for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='sleepy' timestamp='1313540988' post='5448927'] I'm not the one that likes Sraps xD[/quote] *Raises hand* [quote name='sleepy' timestamp='1313540988' post='5448927']but I agree with that comment.[/quote] Konami should just make a metagame-dominating archetype that consists of all Secret Rares, and watch everyone rage over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1313542768' post='5449011'] No matter how old it is, it still serves as a good starting point for 3-0 ideology and allows people the chance to refine it since it is so old. Granted I don't think most people want to, but that is another story. [/quote] Still, some of the points here make 3-0 look stupid due to how dated they are, like Cydra Invalidates Stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black W Mage Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 the difference between BLS being @ 1 and @ 3 is: I only have 2 Warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Pudding Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Who are you, TC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Nothing Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 If I may throw in my two cents, before, rotation wasn't needed. Cards were created with the premise of a fusion deck, field, hand, deck, graveyard, and remove from play zone. However, that fusion deck became an extra deck. Cards that used to be balanced (sometimes weak) that involved the fusion deck now involve the extra deck. They no longer have the balance that they used to have. Mass Driver was, at time of printing, a card that people would probably only use as a token. Witch of the Black Forest was considered broken because it found Jinzo and Summoned Skull (whereas now people would say "ewww tributes"). Power Creep has completely destroyed the game. Before, you were lucky if you got two special summons in the same turn. Nowadays, you're unlucky if you only get two in one turn, or your deck is horribly slow. Not only that, but if I may add, TCG exclusives in an OCG list NEVER work. There will ALWAYS be cards considered cheap or broken, and it will take quite some time for them to be printed in the OCG (I believe about 1.5-3 years), which means there are very powerful cards (like tourguide and tengu, for example) that almost completely destroy deck diversity. To break it down further, I'll explain each season with cards based on power level - Original Yu-Gi-Oh - Monsters: Low Spells: Extremely High Traps: Moderately High Yu-Gi-Oh GX - Monsters: Moderately High Spells: Middle Traps: Middle Yu-Gi-Oh 5DS Monsters: Extremely High Spells: Moderately High Traps: Middle Also, if I might add, Yu-Gi-Oh is one of the only card games that does an expected mass banning twice a year. Most others only ban cards that have considerably broken the meta (MTG recently banned two cards...and made a huge article about it. Konami rarely gives an explanation for banning). Yugioh isn't the best card game, so it should definately do a bit more research on what the game its solely based on (I'll give you a guess) does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I sort of agree, but the pointed powers can be separated a little further. I think the easy Special Summoning of monsters is not a problem by itself: The power of the final product monsters is. It would be a bit more boring without relatively easy Synchros/Xyz/Fusions/(or even Rituals) that can come out, but the thing is that they are badly balanced in the game. Some comments have already commented on this... power creep. They did not measure the balance between stats/effects in comparison to how easy they are to bring out. Stardust Dragon and Goyo are as easy to Summon nowadays as a Seven Colored Fish from when I started playing. Even if its disguised as a fancy combo for a Special Summon from the Extra Deck or something else, the standard in regular ATK seen nowadays is easily 2500-3000 for monsters that can be brought out about every turn (and about 4000+ for boss monsters), when it used to be 1900 (and that was pushing it). I wouldn't mind the speed in plays in exchange for power deduction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='Crab Helmet' timestamp='1313541667' post='5448954'] People are still using that incredibly outdated and discredited thing at the start of this thread from a post that I made like three years ago? [/quote] Even though it's outdated, it's still a hell of a lot smarter then most of the recent posts made here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Ban Solemn Warning. This will magically solve all of the game's problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabHelmet Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1313552323' post='5449425'] Even though it's outdated, it's still a hell of a lot smarter then most of the recent posts made here. [/quote] Yeah, but we could be having a drunken discussion of the positive qualities of Twilight, and it would still be a hell of a lot smarter than most of the recent posts made here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black W Mage Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [IMG]http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb478/Red_W_Mage/Faggotofsticks.jpg[/IMG] = Crab Helmet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Yes mage, just help Crab prove her point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black W Mage Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 what would be said opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='Black W Mage' timestamp='1313561289' post='5449771'] what would be said opinion? [/quote] [quote name='Crab Helmet' timestamp='1313560665' post='5449757'] Yeah, but we could be having a drunken discussion of the positive qualities of Twilight, and it would still be a hell of a lot smarter than most of the recent posts made here. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black W Mage Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 smart? iirc thats intelligence? well, clearly I'm conveying an opposing opinion. How is that not a use of human intelligence? Though, I honestly doubt that's what Crab Helmet meant by "smarter". So please, redefine it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 I dislike the idea of a 3-0 list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NumberCruncher Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 Isn't it ironic that the name of the topic has the word logic in it, yet that seems to be the one thing people on this thread try to avoid. No wait, that's just YCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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