.Rai Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Bouncing is bad without something like Degenerate Circuit. There a few good bouncers and those are the only ones you should be running. The point is how does bouncing help you over destroying or RFGing? The only reason you are running all the bounce cards are because they have similar effects. Once you get more experience, you realise it's harder to make 'themed' decks unless it's an archetype. Decks are more and more 'themeless' now. Anti-Meta, LIGHT Beat, 60 card Highlander etc. are all examples. The stuff I said to aid bouncing is because you've included Penguin Soldier and Grand Mole. The stuff I replaced the other bouncers with were similar cards to bouncers but with more useful effects. The rest of the stuff I replaced was the stuff that didn't help your bouncing/attacking a random face-down monster or something that was just bad and I replaced it with something good. If you really want some bounce: [quote]-2 D.D. Warrior Lady +2 Legendary Jujitsu Master -2 Snowman Eater +2 Nightmare Penguin[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 52 cards is way too inconsistent and you'll never win anything serious. I'd start by taking out 3 Big Eye and 3 Pigeonholding Book of Spell, they're both awful and don't really contribute to the Deck's theme (which you seem determined to stick with) at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 No one actually runs My Body as a Shield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Glad Posted July 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1311456194' post='5381216'] Bouncing is bad without something like Degenerate Circuit. There a few good bouncers and those are the only ones you should be running. The point is how does bouncing help you over destroying or RFGing? The only reason you are running all the bounce cards are because they have similar effects. Once you get more experience, you realise it's harder to make 'themed' decks unless it's an archetype. Decks are more and more 'themeless' now. Anti-Meta, LIGHT Beat, 60 card Highlander etc. are all examples. The stuff I said to aid bouncing is because you've included Penguin Soldier and Grand Mole. The stuff I replaced the other bouncers with were similar cards to bouncers but with more useful effects. The rest of the stuff I replaced was the stuff that didn't help your bouncing/attacking a random face-down monster or something that was just bad and I replaced it with something good. [/quote] You Still don't Rebuild a deck on the thread you note the person. The theme of the deck is to mess with the opponents head and hand to stall them off for 20 turns. The original incarnation had no issues with that. And just because a deck is not an "Archetype" does not mean it can't win or work for that matter. Sure it is not Yata Lock but it is still no Shape Snatch otk. I was looking for better version of cards already in the deck, not a shotgun of insult to the face. When you change the stall source you change the deck. the stall source is enemy hand control. NOT DESTRUCTION. yes it is harder to pull off, but tell me about cards that do it better not rewrite the deck away from the stall source. Hard =/= bad, it just means you have to think more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Edit: Will read above post. Posted at same time. There are very little good bouncers. If there isn't enough good things in a theme, it isn't worth running and is worth running something similar but good instead. Edit 2: Okay, thank you for clarifying the theme of the deck. If you really want hand disruption, your best shot is running Snowman Eater, Nightmare Penguin, Gale Lizard and Penguin Soldier + copies of Fenrir and Spiritual Water Art - Aoi. Snowman Eater is the closest to a bouncer you can get and Penguin Soldier is already there. Fenrir is alright here if you run enough Water monsters and Spiritual Water Art is good too. Not exactly Tier 1 but it keeps to your theme of disruption and bouncing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Glad Posted July 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='Welche' timestamp='1311456483' post='5381236'] No one actually runs My Body as a Shield [/quote] ND play area has it running all over the place.[quote name='Vanquishing Light' timestamp='1311456441' post='5381234'] 52 cards is way too inconsistent and you'll never win anything serious. I'd start by taking out 3 Big Eye and 3 Pigeonholding Book of Spell, they're both awful and don't really contribute to the Deck's theme (which you seem determined to stick with) at all. [/quote] They do help the theme...they mess with the opponents head. that is what the deck dose it messes with your head for 20 turns then wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Just in case you didn't see the edit: [quote] Okay, thank you for clarifying the theme of the deck. If you really want hand disruption, your best shot is running Snowman Eater, Nightmare Penguin, Gale Lizard and Penguin Soldier + copies of Fenrir and Spiritual Water Art - Aoi. Snowman Eater is the closest to a bouncer you can get and Penguin Soldier is already there. Fenrir is alright here if you run enough Water monsters and Spiritual Water Art is good too. Not exactly Tier 1 but it keeps to your theme of disruption and bouncing. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Glad Posted July 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1311456741' post='5381251'] Edit: Will read above post. Posted at same time. There are very little good bouncers. If there isn't enough good things in a theme, it isn't worth running and is worth running something similar but good instead. Edit 2: Okay, thank you for clarifying the theme of the deck. If you really want hand disruption, your best shot is running Snowman Eater, Nightmare Penguin, Gale Lizard and Penguin Soldier + copies of Fenrir and Spiritual Water Art - Aoi. Snowman Eater is the closest to a bouncer you can get and Penguin Soldier is already there. Fenrir is alright here if you run enough Water monsters and Spiritual Water Art is good too. Not exactly Tier 1 but it keeps to your theme of disruption and bouncing. [/quote] It is a mess with your head deck not so much direct hand control. I can see, change load/dump, your hand as well as see, change/force your back row, as well as manipulate my draw. this all adds up to a deck that alters the mindset of the opponent and generally upsets them (save the truly strong willed) that is what the deck dose, it messes with the opponents MIND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Fine. In that case, I shall leave this thread for I am not an expert at 'ze mind games. Good day to you, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='Omi Glad' timestamp='1311456707' post='5381248'] You Still don't Rebuild a deck on the thread you note the person. The theme of the deck is to mess with the opponents head and hand to stall them off for 20 turns. The original incarnation had no issues with that. And just because a deck is not an "Archetype" does not mean it can't win or work for that matter. Sure it is not Yata Lock but it is still no Shape Snatch otk. I was looking for better version of cards already in the deck, not a shotgun of insult to the face. When you change the stall source you change the deck. the stall source is enemy hand control. NOT DESTRUCTION. yes it is harder to pull off, but tell me about cards that do it better not rewrite the deck away from the stall source. Hard =/= bad, it just means you have to think more. [/quote] You posted the deck in this section and don't expect people to criticise and give fixes it if it's bad? There was no "shotgun insult to the face" in Cursed Reactions post; that's just you [i]thinking[/i] that he was insulting you, when in reality, he was only helping you. Really, some card choices you made really are bad, like Pigeonholing Book of Spell instead of Pot of Duality, FYI, Marshmallon is limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 It's ironic how critical people here have been of bounce, seeing how much people in the TCG section have become interested in bounce cards. Somebody run something with a teched Penguin Soldier, right? Anyway, if you want to mess with your opponent's head, this is the card to do it: [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100723102219/yugioh/images/f/f8/CompulsoryEvacuationDeviceSD2-EN-C-UE.png[/img] I'll just chop your deck down to something of a skeleton, to make room for more useful cards. 3x Kelbek - Bounce BBEGs (It'll work as filler if you have nothing to replace it with) 3x Wall of illusion - Bounce BBEGs 2x Chaos Sorcerer - RFP problem cards (This will be great if you can get enough LIGHT/DARK targets) 2x Penguin solider 2x Marshmalon/spirit reaper 1x grand mole 3x Final Count Down - primary win condition 2x MST - Staple [b]1x Dark Hole 1x Monster Reborn[/b] 3x Mind Haxorz - Peek at your hand and back row or eat a negation (You could tech 1 for fun, but 3 is too many) 3x Waboku - Staple defense 2x Ordeal of a traveler - On chance stop attacks 2x Ominous Fortunetelling - On chance burn (Hang onto for fun, if you like) [b]1x Torrential Tribute[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthepanda Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 [quote]3x Final Count Down - primary win condition[/quote] [quote]The theme of the deck is to ... stall them off for 20 turns. [/quote] Running Final Countdown LarryCortter style is the way to go, IMO. This is the best IRL I can think of. 3 Battle Fader 3 Zero Gardna 3 Swift Scarecrow 3 Pot of Duality 3 Upstart Goblin 3 Book of Eclipse 3 Final Countdown 3 Gold Sarcophagus 3 The Warrior Returning Alive 1 Reinforcement of the Army 3 Waboku 3 Frozen Soul 3 Thunder of Ruler 3 Threatening Roar ...and really you only need to stall them out for 10 turns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Glad Posted July 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1311479207' post='5382239'] It's ironic how critical people here have been of bounce, seeing how much people in the TCG section have become interested in bounce cards. Somebody run something with a teched Penguin Soldier, right? Anyway, if you want to mess with your opponent's head, this is the card to do it: [img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100723102219/yugioh/images/f/f8/CompulsoryEvacuationDeviceSD2-EN-C-UE.png[/img] I'll just chop your deck down to something of a skeleton, to make room for more useful cards. 3x Kelbek - Bounce BBEGs (It'll work as filler if you have nothing to replace it with) 3x Wall of illusion - Bounce BBEGs 2x Chaos Sorcerer - RFP problem cards (This will be great if you can get enough LIGHT/DARK targets) 2x Penguin solider 2x Marshmalon/spirit reaper 1x grand mole 3x Final Count Down - primary win condition 2x MST - Staple [b]1x Dark Hole 1x Monster Reborn[/b] 3x Mind Haxorz - Peek at your hand and back row or eat a negation (You could tech 1 for fun, but 3 is too many) 3x Waboku - Staple defense 2x Ordeal of a traveler - On chance stop attacks 2x Ominous Fortunetelling - On chance burn (Hang onto for fun, if you like) [b]1x Torrential Tribute[/b] [/quote] interesting suggestion. But the deck is as much about how you act out the game as it is about the cards. Messing with an opponents mind set is not just cards, it is also using communication and misdirection, such as the cards i originally listed. I will, however, admit that yes the deck is big and could be slimmed. And like the post on page 1 says. you can not really understand the deck until you have played it IRL and used the miss-directive words and actions needed to pull out the frustration, annoyance, and mental manipulation needed to fully realize the point of the stall mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='Omi Glad' timestamp='1311511832' post='5382891'] And like the post on page 1 says. you can not really understand the deck until you have played it IRL and used the miss-directive words and actions needed to pull out the frustration, annoyance, and mental manipulation needed to fully realize the point of the stall mode. [/quote] [img]http://www.petsfunky.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/cat-cant-stop-laughing.JPG[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Glad Posted July 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='Legend Zero' timestamp='1311515301' post='5382946'] [img]http://www.petsfunky.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/cat-cant-stop-laughing.JPG[/img] [/quote] Hey, it is funny, and it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 I'm imagining you being like Panik. Once your opponent casts magic missile at the darkness, you're screwed. And by "casts magic missile at the darkness", I mean "has more than two monsters on the field with at least 1900 ATK". And by "has more than two monsters on the field with at least 1900 ATK", I mean "plays Dark Hole". tl;dr Mind games [i]don't work[/i]. EDIT: They don't work against people who are at least almost competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Glad Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='機皇神龍アステリスク' timestamp='1311540489' post='5384008'] I'm imagining you being like Panik. Once your opponent casts magic missile at the darkness, you're screwed. And by "casts magic missile at the darkness", I mean "has more than two monsters on the field with at least 1900 ATK". And by "has more than two monsters on the field with at least 1900 ATK", I mean "plays Dark Hole". tl;dr Mind games [i]don't work[/i]. EDIT: They don't work against people who are at least almost competent. [/quote] please remember that not everyone is a high ranking pro. And most people are not in perfect control of their emotions. Anther thing to think about is that this deck DOES work. And has done so very nicely. My play group is not set of pros, and heck the best one in it took 3 at regional and he is mind raped by this deck. And if you respond with "well you play group must not be that good" not every group is able to be pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vough Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 [quote name='Omi Glad' timestamp='1311601572' post='5385710'] please remember that not everyone is a high ranking pro. And most people are not in perfect control of their emotions. Anther thing to think about is that this deck DOES work. And has done so very nicely. My play group is not set of pros, and heck the best one in it took 3 at regional and he is mind raped by this deck. And if you respond with "well you play group must not be that good" not every group is able to be pros. [/quote] You're generalizing what you can't generalize. Just because it worked against your idiot friend doesn't mean it will work on anyone. Anyone who has a functioning brain will rush you as hard as they can as soon as know they you have Final Countdown. It's a stall Deck. It's not a mind games Deck. Your opponent is not going to not attack because they think you have a face-down kelbek or whatever. They will force everything because they only have 10 turns to bring your Life points to 0. Zetsubou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solemn Silver Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 My question: Why the F*** post here if your not taking any advice to the deck. You might say you win IRL, but against a real deck like Plants, Sams, even Lightsworn, you won't stand a chance. Just listen to these guys and if you don't, please refrain from posting -_______-' [color="FFFFFF"]I'm not bieng a jerk, just saying listen or don't post.[/color] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 In my experience, the only mind game that ever comes is Kalut and Honest. And they're both Limited so there's basically no 'mind games' in Yu-Gi-Oh! anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Glad Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 [quote name='Ctrl+Alt+Win' timestamp='1311633285' post='5387239'] My question: Why the F*** post here if your not taking any advice to the deck. You might say you win IRL, but against a real deck like Plants, Sams, even Lightsworn, you won't stand a chance. Just listen to these guys and if you don't, please refrain from posting -_______-' [color="FFFFFF"]I'm not bieng a jerk, just saying listen or don't post.[/color] [/quote] the deck is changing as certain options are made available. As to the speed decks winning.That is just a matter of luck. As is most of the game. I have changed the formula, by removing DotFS and Chaos Sorc for Mashmalon, spirit reaper, and 2 penguin soldiers, eliminated a couple of dead cards and such.While i am not changing the base of the deck the supplements to it are infact changing. People are saying the deck should not be played when i came to the forum to get better cards for the deck WHILE keeping the theme. while there are few mind games left. you can still make people make mistakes. Mind Haxors will ruin any bluffs they have out, and they will either negate (yay) or lose any surprises on you (yay). Convulsion lets you play against them. Bait doll, While it is situational they will negate it, or likely lose a card. cause how many spells do people play face down (mst, Indomitable GB), and a couple others) . I will admit i am no professional player. I just come up with wierd but functioning ideas. And as for FC ruining the mind game. See the above listing of uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's convenient that this deck "only works in real life" so we can't experience its awesome power on DN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 -Random number of cards so it becomes 34 +3 Pot of Duality +3 Temporal Machine God Metaion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omi Glad Posted July 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 i love the idea of the +3 Temporal Machine God Metaion! but are they even in the tcg? and if so Do you know any where i can get them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 No they aren't! It's called using Dueling Network! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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