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[quote name='Max Darkness' timestamp='1321519856' post='5648290']
Name could be better, and it should probably be a Thunder-Type; but I do like the image.

[/quote]

Not exactly, its part of an archetype of Beast Monsters, so I'm keeping it beast. Namewise, however, I agree, the name could be better, but provided the background story, i thought it was probably the best.

[quote]
Capitilisation
[/quote]
Spell check, it kinda makes your credibility fly out the window.
Sorry.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still, though, I'd like to learn to make a whole set, not just individual cards.

[attachment=33718:Forestclaw Legend - The Red Avenger.jpg] Here's another, of the set of 4 synchros so far. Again, the artwork's done by me. not as another entry card, just for a grading.
Not exactly into "Darkness! Its gonna control me!" kinda thing, so not looking for names like the Demon, the Nightmare, et, but if you can suggest me a name, i'd greatly appreciate it. Thank you

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321592980' post='5650189']
Spell check, it kinda makes your credibility fly out the window.
Sorry.
[/quote]

I'm dyspraxic. And my card-making abilities speak for themselves.


[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321592980' post='5650189']
Still, though, I'd like to learn to make a whole set, not just individual cards.
[/quote]

When uploading cards; save MSE files as .PNG images, and then upload them through Tinypic/Imageshack etc. That way the cards appear fullsize in the post.

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321639414' post='5650861']
I don't have the whole set finished, I'd like to learn how to make a set without it being too powerful, but while still being able to keep up, and still being fun to use.
[/quote]

The main thing to remember is to make all (or almost all) their effects work together somehow. For example, the "Junk" archetype. "Junk Synchron" can easily set up "Junk Warrior's" Summon; "Junk Forward" is there to combine with "Synchron" to set up "Junk Gardna" or "Junk Destroyer's" Summon; "Junk Servant" can set up either "Junk Archer" or "Junk Berserker's" Summon; and "Junk Defender" provides both a wall, and a useful three Levels.

However, you must also remember to balance them out. The "Junk" archetype revolves around Special Summoning from the hand, so that as a resource is quickly drained. Also, their trumps have no real way to defend themselves.


[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321639414' post='5650861']
Though clicking on the picture enlarges it... I don't know how to use imageshack
[/quote]

You're using MSE right? Click 'Export Set' (it's next to 'Save') and select 'Card Image...'. When the box comes up, save it as a .PNG file. Next, go to [url="http://www.tinypic.com"]www.tinypic.com[/url] and upload it by searching for it using the 'Browse' button, and then 'Upload Now'. You'll get a code for forums. Copy-and-paste that into your post to show the card at its full size.

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alright.
I mean that the set isnt finished yet. But i mean, when i ask around, the effects seem balanced or even under-powered. However, when working together, they're overpowered as a set.
Worms, Blackwings, Scraps, and Six Samurai are some examples.
I'd like to fix that.
But to learn to do it, not just be told "this is right, that's not."
anything you might be able to teach me about set synergy, how to maintain/control it?

[quote]
I frown down upon taking other people's art, stealing them to put on a card, and passing the idea off as my own.
[/quote]
I say this because a lot of card art i find here, i know the artists in Deviantart.

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321743530' post='5653649']
alright.
I mean that the set isnt finished yet. But i mean, when i ask around, the effects seem balanced or even under-powered. However, when working together, they're overpowered as a set.
Worms, Blackwings, Scraps, and Six Samurai are some examples.
[/quote]

"Worms" are only overpowered if you let them both get and keep their trump "Worm Zero" on the field. "Scraps" are only overpowered if you let them get going. Enough Summon and Effect Traps are enough to stop both those archetypes. "BWs" and "6Sams" on the otherhand were designed to be broken. And the whole idea of an archetype/set is to give them the ability to become more powerful when they work together.


[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321743530' post='5653649']
I'd like to fix that.
But to learn to do it, not just be told "this is right, that's not."
anything you might be able to teach me about set synergy, how to maintain/control it?
[/quote]

Well, the first thing to thing about when making an archetype/set is to consider what the final goal of the archetype/set is. Whether it's victory by battle, effect (as in overpowering destructive effects) or burn. Usually, most archetypes/sets are a combination of two or even all of them. The "Monarchs" for example work on Effects, and Burn. Effects to create their Tribute fodder, and their own effects to clear the field. "Caius" and "Thestalos" also burn.

You then need to decide what form the archetype's/set's trumps will take. Will they be high-Level Main Deck Monsters, Rituals, Fusions, Contact Fusions, Synchros, or Exceeds? Or a variation on that. Once you've decided on the strategy and trumps, you have almost everything to start the creative process. The last part is to determine whether you'll make your archetype/set bound to one or a couple of Attributes or Types, to play off the support, or indeed lack of support. Wirh those three things decided, you'll have the boundries needed to make the archetype/set.

Now, regarding balance and reigning in set synergy. It is governed by two things. First, the archetype's/set's members themselves. If they are too powerful, the overall result is a broken archetype/set. Second, the inherent support for the Attributes/Types/Stragety involved. If there is large amount of support, you'll need to reduce the overall prowess of the members. Vice-versa, if there is little to no support, you can make them rather more powerful. In addition, you must consider whether to make your monsters specifically overpowered, but give them a large limiting factor, done through a Condition Effect. "Quickdraw Synchron" is a prime example.

[b][u]Examples:[/u][/b]

[b]1. Occult Scientia[/b]
This archetype is based on the following principles:
[i]Victory Method:[/i] Battle and Effect
[i]Set Trumps:[/i] Synchros
[i]Attribute/Type Specific?:[/i] DARK Machines
[i]Notes:[/i] Trumps are Death, and Death Accel Synchros

Now, because Synchros, and DARK and Machine-Type monsters are all heavily supported, the archetype needed several balancing factors. The first was to design the trumps to rely on a new kind of Synchro Summoning, one that had no support at all. Secondly, the fodder monsters all have poor effects, or effects that simply set up the trumps' summoning, while not helping to swarm more members onto the field. As such, the sets needs to rely on existing support to succeed; it does not add any of its own. And the use of the Death Synchro mechanic meant that the Synchros themselves could be relatively powerful, despite their more drawn-out Summoning conditions.


[center][img]http://i43.tinypic.com/2m6o0wk.png[/img] [img]http://i43.tinypic.com/2q21m6f.png[/img][/center]

[center][img]http://i44.tinypic.com/a2cdcm.png[/img][/center]

[b]Effect:[/b] 1 "Occult Scientia" Tuner + 1 or more DARK non-Tuner monsters
Must be Synchro Summoned from the Graveyard. This card inflicts Piercing Damage. If this card battles: You can banish 1 DARK Machine-Type monster in your Graveyard; Your opponent's monster lose 800 ATK or DEF, until the End Step. Neither monster can be destroyed by that battle. During your opponent's Main Phase: You can Synchro Summon using this face-up card you control as a Synchro Material Monster. If this card is used for a Synchro Summon, the Synchro Monster you wish to Summon can be in the Graveyard.


[b]2. "Phoenix" Geminis[/b]
This set has the following bases:
[i]Victory Method: [/i]Effect and Burn
[i]Set Trumps:[/i] Main Deck Monsters
[i]Attribute/Type Specific?:[/i] FIRE Pyro Geminis
[i]Notes:[/i] Burn is LP-loss effects

This, in many ways is the opposite to the "Occult Scientias". Their three main bases, FIRE, Pyros, and Geminis are not widely supported, nor are high-Level Main Deck monsters. And burn strategies have strong counter cards. As a result, I was able to make the members of this set much more powerful than the individual members of my other archetypes, and the balancing feature is already in place. Being Geminis, their true effects are hindered by their primary effects, so less balancing needs to be considered.


[center][img]http://i41.tinypic.com/o79a9i.png[/img] [img]http://i39.tinypic.com/29vghvl.png[/img][/center]

[b]Phoenix Cherub:[/b] This card is treated as a Normal Monster while on the field and in the Graveyard. You can Normal Summon this card on the field: It is treated as an Effect Monster, and gains the following effect:
* When this card gains its effect: You can select 1 Level 4 or lower Gemini Monster in your Graveyard that was destroyed by battle or a card effect; Special Summon it in Attack Position. You can Tribute this card: Special Summon 1 "Phoenix Seraph" from your hand or Deck; It cannot gain its effect this turn.

[b]Witch of the Phoenix:[/b] Once per turn: You can reveal the top 3 cards of your Deck; Send 1 FIRE Gemini Monster from them to the Graveyard, except "Witch of the Phoenix", and Special Summon this card (from your Graveyard). Shuffle any other cards into your Deck. This card is treated as a Normal Monster while on the field and in the Graveyard. You can Normal Summon this card on the field: It is treated as an Effect Monster, and gains the following effect:
* While this card is on the field and once per duel while this card is in the Graveyard: When a Gemini Monster is Special Summoned from your Graveyard; Your opponent loses 600 Life Points.



[center][img]http://i41.tinypic.com/2lw82hd.png[/img][/center]

[b]Phoenix Seraph:[/b] This card is treated as a Normal Monster while on the field and in the Graveyard. You can Normal Summon this card on the field: It is treated as an Effect Monster, and gains the following effect:
* When this card gains its effect: You can Special Summon 1 Gemini Monster from your Graveyard OR have 1 Gemini Monster you control gain its effect. When a Gemini Monster you control would be flipped face-down: You can change it to face-up Defense Position instead. During your opponent's End Phase: You can Special Summon 1 Gemini Monster in your Graveyard that was destroyed by battle or a card effect during that turn.


[b]3. Skybornes and Skybounds[/b]
This twin of archetypes is based on:
[i]Victory Method:[/i]Battle and Effect
[i]Set Trumps:[/i] Main Deck Monsters
[i]Attribute/Type Specific?:[/i] WIND Monsters
[i]Notes:[/i] Trumps are placed on the field, and attach materials

This is an interesting point. WIND monsters are not very supported, but the general Types of the monsters involved (Fairy, Spellcaster, Warrior) are. As such, as long as the effects themselves are balanced, and don't add any support to the Types, they will generally be balanced. However, I included this set as a final example because for two reasons. One, all the "Skyborne" members have effects that are hugely overpowered, balanced out by a crippling Condition Effect. And two, the "Skybound" monsters have a distinct anti-meta twist in that they are placed on the field, compared to the more mainstream Special Summoning.

[center][IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/2jepcog.png[/IMG] [IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/34jdf0l.png[/IMG][/center]

[b]Skiron:[/b] Cannot be used for a Summon, except by its own effect. When this card is Normal Summoned: Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower "Skyborne" monster (from your Deck). You can target any number of "Skyborne" monsters you control: Select 1 "Skybound" monster in your Deck whose Level is equal to the Level(s) of the targeted monster(s); Place it on the field, and attach the targeted monster(s).

[b]Aurorus:[/b] Cannot be used for a Summon, except by its own effect. You can return 1 "Skybound" monster in your hand to your Deck: Special Summon this card (from your hand); Draw 1 card. You can target any number of "Skyborne" monsters you control: Select 1 "Skybound" monster in your Deck whose Level is equal to the Level(s) of the targeted monster(s); Place it on the field, and attach the targeted monster(s).

[center][IMG]http://i44.tinypic.com/xpt0l5.png[/IMG][/center]

[b]Vulturnus:[/b] Cannot be Summoned or Set. Must be placed on the field (from your Deck) by the effect of a "Skybound" monster. When this card is placed on the field, and you have 1 or less cards in your hand: You can detach and return to your Deck any number of Materials from this card; Draw an equal number of cards. If this card is targeted by an opponent's Special Summoned monster's effect: You can detach and return to your Deck 1 Material from this card; This card cannot be applied for that effect, while it remains face-up.

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Makes sense, so far.
So super-supported archetypes should have weaker effects, while under-supported should have better support, and support should be distributed among the archetype?
I've decided on use of both Fusion and Synchro. no grave-dd synchro/fusion, just regular synchro, maybe a strange summon technique.
anything else you could teach me?

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321812986' post='5655183']
Makes sense, so far.
So super-supported archetypes should have weaker effects, while under-supported should have better support, and support should be distributed among the archetype?
[/quote]

Exactly. More support means more abuse, so weaker, or less-abuseable effects. You have many options when it comes to support. You can either make it Monster, Trump, Spell or Trap-based, or a selection. Play to the archetype's strength when designing support.


[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321812986' post='5655183']
I've decided on use of both Fusion and Synchro. no grave-dd synchro/fusion, just regular synchro, maybe a strange summon technique.
anything else you could teach me?
[/quote]

Strange summoning techniques involving Synchros include all-Tuner Synchros, Dual-Tuning Synchros, Death Synchros and D. Synchros. So you could use any of them.

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Wanting Variety in Synchro/Fusion counts as multiple support, though, right?

How does support count as Op'd?
I got the basics but some look balanced completely, but turns out, they're not as balanced as they look. for example, I thought One For One was pretty balanced, but turns out, it's now limit 1.
Thousand Eyes Restrict and Tsukuyomi dont exactly look ban-worthy, in my opinion.
Restrict: I mean i know its good, but monsters are ridiculously easy to destroy, and gravity bind is limit 3 at this point.
Tsukuyomi: Book of moon's limit 1, but that's because its a quick-play spell.

So, in short, my question is, how do I deem a card Op'd?

On a side note, I really like strange or weird effects. Like Dora of Fate, Super Junior Confrontation, Icy Crevasse, stuff like that, if you'd be able to help throw an idea at me.

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321819588' post='5655392']
How does support count as Op'd?
I got the basics but some look balanced completely, but turns out, they're not as balanced as they look. for example, I thought One For One was pretty balanced, but turns out, it's now limit 1.
[/quote]

"One for One" is Limited because of "Dandylion", "Mind Master", and other Level 1s with really good effects. It is also Limited for the fact it can send a high-Level monster to the Grave to be instantly revived.


[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321819588' post='5655392']
Thousand Eyes Restrict and Tsukuyomi dont exactly look ban-worthy, in my opinion.
Restrict: I mean i know its good, but monsters are ridiculously easy to destroy, and gravity bind is limit 3 at this point.
Tsukuyomi: Book of moon's limit 1, but that's because its a quick-play spell.
[/quote]

"Thousand-Eyes Restrict" is relatively easy to Summon in the right Deck, and is a constant "Swords of Revealing Light", and prevents your opponent's monsters from changing their battle positions. Enough stall/lockdown cards with it makes it invincible. "Tsukuyomi" is banned because it is an easier to use "Book of Moon", and because the current game thrives on both Special Summoning and keeping monsters face-up, it became too powerful.


[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321819588' post='5655392']
So, in short, my question is, how do I deem a card Op'd?
[/quote]

You must consider how abuseable it is. How easy it is to use with the current Meta and Tier 2 Decks. If it gives them another strategy to use, then it's overpowered.

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321904203' post='5657253']
I mean that the same card for a different archetype may be different, such as Offerings to the Snake Deity and Icarus Attack.
both have a very similar effect, but one''s overpowered and the other isn't.
Dandy's lv 3, btw
[/quote]

It's dull to make altered semi-staples. And both are pretty much the same strength. It's just the archetypes that can use them. If there was a meta Reptile archetype, you'd see "Offerings" in the same light as "Icarus".

Send "Dandylion" with "One for One", get two Level 1 Tokens, and a Level 1 from your Deck. Add a Tuner, and it's Level 4 upwards.

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D'you think you can help me with a few things?
I'd like to make a deck themed with egyptian artwork.
I've had a large fascination and affinity for that kind of art style. But I need some kind of creative spark, and digging around this site hasn't exactly helped, except for 1 card I saw.
[url="http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx280/waters27/204.jpg"]http://i763.photobuc...aters27/204.jpg[/url]
could you help me get started?
Eye of Wdjat, Bounce, Book of Moon/Life/Eclipse, Horus, Nephthys, the Anubis cards are some examples

Also wanted to ask, is there a set that you've made too?
If so, can I see?

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321910375' post='5657569']
D'you think you can help me with a few things?
I'd like to make a deck themed with egyptian artwork.
I've had a large fascination and affinity for that kind of art style. But I need some kind of creative spark, and digging around this site hasn't exactly helped, except for 1 card I saw.
[url="http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx280/waters27/204.jpg"]http://i763.photobuc...aters27/204.jpg[/url]
could you help me get started?
Eye of Wdjat, Bounce, Book of Moon/Life/Eclipse, Horus, Nephthys, the Anubis cards are some examples
[/quote]

There are a lot of Egyptian-themed cards already in YuGiOh. But if you need pictures, I'd suggest Pixiv or Safebooru.


[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321910375' post='5657569']
Also wanted to ask, is there a set that you've made too?
If so, can I see?
[/quote]

These are too old for you to comment on the thread themselves (you'll get done for Necrobumping), but comment on them here if you want to. (You might also need to right-click and select 'Show Picture' on the white boxes where there should be cards)

[url="http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/266354-ame-no-spirits-extra-support-cards/page__fromsearch__1"]http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/266354-ame-no-spirits-extra-support-cards/page__fromsearch__1[/url]
[url="http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/264277-md-scarlet-geminis-4040-xyz-geminis-added/page__fromsearch__1"]http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/264277-md-scarlet-geminis-4040-xyz-geminis-added/page__fromsearch__1[/url]
[url="http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/261769-md-advent-of-creation-100100-exceed-promos-finish-it/page__fromsearch__1"]http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/261769-md-advent-of-creation-100100-exceed-promos-finish-it/page__fromsearch__1[/url]

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321912954' post='5657682']
but most of the egyptian-style cards don't exactly belong to an archetype.
for example, Nephthys and End of Anubis for example don't work well together (ironically)
[/quote]

They're not really designed to work as an archetype. They're mainly designed to be used on their own or with other, unrelated cards. They just share a common heritage in their design.


[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321912954' post='5657682']
EDIT: No go from Pixiv nor Safebooru
[/quote]

Then I don't know.


EDIT: If you want to look at my more obtuse work, here is a prime example: [url="http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/269304-mini-archetype-umbrals/page__fromsearch__1"]http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/269304-mini-archetype-umbrals/page__fromsearch__1[/url]

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[spoiler='4th Synchro Card']
[url="http://tinypic.com?ref=24doqhd"][img]http://i40.tinypic.com/24doqhd.jpg[/img][/url]
[/spoiler]
Finished another card's artwork. I'm rewriting the effects of all the cards in the set, to get a better feel for it. starting with the Synchros/Fusions.

So far, this set, I'd like to have a teamwork archetype. For example, that by topdecking, it won't do very good. I don't mean as in the general archetype fashion, i mean that they depend on each other. Something not unlike the original Six Samurai.

alright, got names for all the monsters, but not enough for the spells/traps. gonna aim it for Beast EARTH monsters. other than Naturia Synchros, there isnt too much earth support that I know of. so restricting the use of Tuners to having to synchro with FC monsters to make FC monsters (not unlike Scrap Chimera) should work, right?

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[quote name='Wolfitsune Omega' timestamp='1321926757' post='5658323']
alright, got names for all the monsters, but not enough for the spells/traps. gonna aim it for Beast EARTH monsters. other than Naturia Synchros, there isnt too much earth support that I know of. so restricting the use of Tuners to having to synchro with FC monsters to make FC monsters (not unlike Scrap Chimera) should work, right?
[/quote]

Yes, but consider the vast amount of recent beast support. (See DREV, STBL, and TF06)

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I didn't notice so much EARTH Beast support was out now. But very few would actually benefit. Howl of the Wild is probably one of the benefiting cards, if even. The Synchros require specific monsters for Synchro summoning.
Horn of the Phantom Beast is probably the only combo i can think of that could be broken, but Horn of the Phantom beast is already broken to begin with.

Effects for Synchro/XYZ is easy for me to make for some reason, but the Effect monsters are the harder part for me for some reason.

Submitting for grading. Additionally, the artwork isn't finished yet. [spoiler='Progress so Far...']
(All Beast-Type)

[b]Forestclaw of the North Star[/b]
Lv4 EARTH Beast Effect
1700/1400
[i]If this card destroys a monster by battle, search your deck for a "Forestclaw" Monster and add it to your hand.[/i]

[b]Forestclaw of the Earth[/b]
Lv 3 LIGHT Beast Effect
?/?
[i]THis card's ATK/DEF are equal to the number of "Forestclaw" monsters in your graveyard x400.[/i]

[b]Forestclaw of the Sky Shadow[/b]
Lv 1 EARTH Beast Effect
0/0
[i]Once per turn: You can target 1 "Forestclaw" monster you control. This card's Level becomes equal to that monster's level until the End Phase. This card cannot be used as a Synchro, XYZ or Fusion material, except for "Forestclaw" monsters.[/i]

[b]Forestclaw of the Waning Moon[/b]
Lv 3 EARTH Beast Effect
1200/600
[i]Send this card from your hand to the graveyard to target 1 "Forestclaw" monster. That monster cannot be destroyed this turn and battle damage involving that monster is reduced to 0.[/i]

[b]Forestclaw of the Waxing Moon[/b]
Lv 3 EARTH Beast Effect
600/1200
[i]FLIP: Target 1 card on the field. Destroy it if the only monsters in your graveyard are "Forestclaw" monsters.[/i]

[b]Forestclaw Alpha - The Dusk[/b]
Lv 5 EARTH Beast Tuner
2000/1500
[i]You can only control 1 "Alpha" monster. This card cannot be used as a Synchro Material Monster, except for the Synchro Summon of a "Forestclaw" monster and all the other Synchro Material Monsters must also be "Forestclaw" monsters. If you control at least 1 "Forestclaw" monster, you can Normal Summon this card without a tribute. Negate the effects of monsters destroyed by this card in battle.[/i]

[b](Howl?)[/b]
Spell Card
[i]Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal a "Forestclaw" monster. Add it to your hand and shuffle the revealed cards into your deck.[/i]

[/spoiler]

haha, had Deja Vu

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry, everything's been kind of dead.

Overall, the effects are very generic (I don't know if that's what you were going for), but they're relatively solid. The only wobbly ones are "Earth" and "Waxing Moon", mainly because they are both heavily reliant on a single archetype Deck; but also because "Earth" might get too powerful too quickly, so tone down the ATK gain, and Flip Effects are not brilliant in most cases, and this is hugely restrictive in its use.

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i check back frequently; at the latest, every other day.

wasn't going for generic, more for team-swarm.
i do like that the deck is heavy reliant on their own archtype.
i wanted to put a cycle into the deck where the draw power in the deck comes from returning cards in the graveyard to the deck.
Deck (The Earth) -> Hand (The Forest) -> Field (In the fight) -> Graveyard (Death) -> Deck.
Circle of Life, basically.
i want to go for something similar to swarm, but it'd make synchro/xyz too easy. so in short, balancing swarm and synchro/xyz is the hard part.

EDIT: At the same time, i'm looking for something... different. i don't like the fact that it's looking so generic. i mean, why not just stick with Lightsworns, in the general case; about half have similar effects to Lightsworns. I'd like to look at 'interrupting' effects, as in, effects that activate during either player's turn, while not being either too good or better off not having. At the same time, while mixing with Swarm, it may be a bit too OP'd if they swarmed and had interrupting effects like that.

Oh, and the reason Waxing Moon is so restrictive, is because i want them self-exclusive. very very little splashing, if any. So he helps Forestclaw and Forestclaw-exclusive decks, or in a lucky Macro Cosmos deck.

Any idea on how to go about this?

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