Blake Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Lanza has, according to Word of God, the ability to disintegrate what it touches, similarly to Respira. Not on the AGE AND DECAY level, but on the EXODIA OBLITERATE level. =D I never actually argued that Lanza was /stronger/ than Barragan, just that it wasn't weaker =o I am arguing on the Ichigo/Uryu fights, but not arguing "He's good because Ichigo X, Y, Z", for the most part. I'm just arguing what he showcased in said fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 No need to defend yourself to me. I just found it easier to reply to your points (and point out some stuff) than Remo's. But i'll get to his at some point too. lol [s]Because secretly I'm preparing a BS argument to prove how some random espada like say Arraniero or Zommari is the strongest.[/s] Though on the disintegrating part. As you mentioned it's not age and decay. It's the difference between "Oh look i made a perfect hole in your body with none of the flesh that once occupied it to be seen" and "OMG CUT YOUR ARM OFF NOW IF YOU WANT ANYTHING OF YOU TO BE LEFT." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Yeah, Lanza's the rough equivalent of a nuke (Suzumebachi is more just a really big missile), whereas Barragan is... A very active, voracious virus O.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Andx' timestamp='1324431259' post='5720276'] [b]Fun Fact: Gohan is in fact still the strongest character in the Dragon Ball Universe. Super Buu is known to be stronger than Kid Buu and Gohan was beating on Super Buu pretty easily until other people messed up. Whereas Goku struggled against Kid Buu the entire time and only won with the Genkidama (Spirit Bomb) which has hax level powers. Just like to think about how the series would have gone if Toriyama had been able to make Gohan the main for Z's section of the plot, like he wanted to. :'D[/b] [/quote] Funnily enough, I simply thought Kid Buu was the strongest form, but I've been seeing this Super Buu > Kid Buu fact appear more often and I still don't get why. That's why I originally still believe SS3 Goku was the strongest character, but if you're right, then yes, Gohan IS the strongest. [s]Though there is GT...[/s] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1324433076' post='5720336'] Funnily enough, I simply thought Kid Buu was the strongest form, but I've been seeing this Super Buu > Kid Buu fact appear more often and I still don't get why. That's why I originally still believe SS3 Goku was the strongest character, but if you're right, then yes, Gohan IS the strongest. [s]Though there is GT...[/s] [/quote] The thing with Buu is rather confusing. As you know Buu went around killing or, if he couldn't kill, absorbing the Kais. When Kid Buu Absorbed South Supreme Kai he turned into Super Buu. This was an increase in strength. He then killed North Kai and West Kai (East Kai being the one that meets Goku and such). But then Super Buu confronted the Grand Supreme Kai. When super buu absorbed him he thought he would get stronger. But the Grand Supreme Kai's good and such or whatever was such a strong influence that super buu turned into Mr. Buu who is much weaker than Super Buu. And we see later when Super Buu absorbs Gotenks, Picolo, and Gohan, he gets stronger not weaker. Somehow or other by removing those three from super Buu, he reverts to Kid Buu who's weaker than Super buu. Confusing? Yes! Impossible to figure out? No. Though a correction on my part. Technically Vegito (Goku and Vegeta earing fusion) is the strongest thing in Dragonball. As normal Vegito was destroying Super Buu with Goten, Trunks, Picolo, and Gohan inside of him. [s]lolGT. Let's not get into that. It's not even canon anyway. lol[/s] EDIT: Another correction on my part. From the scene where the absorbed people are freed, Mr. Buu (who is essentially the Grand Supreme Kai in Buu) gets freed as well. Removing him along with the others is what reverts super buu to kid buu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Andx' timestamp='1324433747' post='5720352'] When Kid Buu Absorbed South Supreme Kai he turned into Super Buu. This was an increase in strength. [/quote] Everything else I agree with, but the Ultra/Mega/whatever Buu is different from Super Buu. When the gang escaped Super Buu, Goku noted that Super Buu's chi was getting bigger, meaning the Mega Buu and Super Buu are two separate entities (based on the physical difference and with the chi increase). NOW, I distinctly remember Old Kai saying that absorbing the KaiS weakened Buu, which led me to believe that Kid Buu powered down twice after each absorption. Unless I'm mistaken. And yes, Vegito would be the strongest, though he doesn't stick around, so you could still say Gohan. ...or even Goku, since there's a 10 year timeskip and Gohan probably didn't train much while Goku did nothing but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1324434384' post='5720372'] Everything else I agree with, but the Ultra/Mega/whatever Buu is different from Super Buu. When the gang escaped Super Buu, Goku noted that Super Buu's chi was getting bigger, meaning the Mega Buu and Super Buu are two separate entities (based on the physical difference and with the chi increase). NOW, I distinctly remember Old Kai saying that absorbing the KaiS weakened Buu, which led me to believe that Kid Buu powered down twice after each absorption. Unless I'm mistaken. And yes, Vegito would be the strongest, though he doesn't stick around, so you could still say Gohan. ...or even Goku, since there's a 10 year timeskip and Gohan probably didn't train much while Goku did nothing but. [/quote] Can't really say much on the bigger chi. For everything I knew Super Buu was just stronger than Kid Buu. xD But yeah absorbing the great purity and good of Grand Supreme Kai weakened him. South Kai however wasn't that huge amazing pure force so he actually strengthed Buu and made him take on the super buu form. At least from what i know/understand. Well Goku was stronger than Gohan most of that time simply because of the lack of training on Gohan's part as you mentioned. ... till the old kai haxed and awakened all of Gohan's powers at once. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Andx' timestamp='1324434568' post='5720375'] Can't really say much on the bigger chi. For everything I knew Super Buu was just stronger than Kid Buu. xD [b]I own the manga novels, Goku said his chi was getting bigger when he turned into Mega Buu.[/b] [b]Even if Kid Buu was knocked down from Mega Buu, I think it'd be hard to say how much of a decrease it was. So Kid Buu could still be stronger than the normal Super Buu.[/b] But yeah absorbing the great purity and good of Grand Supreme Kai weakened him. South Kai however wasn't that huge amazing pure force so he actually strengthed Buu and made him take on the super buu form. At least from what i know/understand. [b]I remember Old Kai stating both weakened him in the dubs. Mistranslation maybe?[/b] Well Goku was stronger than Gohan most of that time simply because of the lack of training on Gohan's part as you mentioned. ... till the old kai haxed and awakened all of Gohan's powers at once. lol [b]I know, but I meant the last timeskip with Uub and Pan.[/b] [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Whatever happened I believe yeah it is safe to say the Kid Buu they fought could be at least stronger than default Super Buu. If this was the original funimation dub then yes, mistranslation is very likely. A revised dub or Kai when it's in the Buu saga (or if it's already there) would correct that. Or one of us is just remembering stuff wrong. xD ohhhhh. Yeah after that time skip safe to say Gohan wasn't doing too much. Suppose the better way to put it is Gohan has the most potential power. Minus Vegito of course. And I don't even know about Gogeta. (Fusion dance Goku and Vegeta) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I did mean the original Funimation dub, so that could be it. Oh well, in any case, Goku's probably the strongest character by the series' end >.> Gohan should have been DBZ's main though, I think, even though I love Goku to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 By series end yes. Goku would likely be the strongest. People just loved him too much for Toriyama to have anyone else above him. Should correct that. People loved him too much for Toriyama's editors to allow him to put anyone over Goku like that. If anything I'd just like to see how the series would have played out had Toriyama been able to take Goku out of it when he wanted to. Not so much "DBZ MUST BE REMADE THIS WAY" just some ideas about how the story would been different without Goku around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Zero Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Trust me, it would have been massively different, and full of angst, because Goku would have died from Raditz and not come back. Either that or after Freiza, but one of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Do you mean after he died with Cell? Did the editors make Toriyama bring him back? ... Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Freiza seems like more of the spot Toriyama would have liked to have Gohan take over. But he was made to bring goku back for cell.... and then again for buu. In the end he was getting tired of it. Makes me sad when manga writers stop liking their work. I much prefer people like Oda writing One Piece, that guys have a blast after all this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Wait, he was? That...kinda ruins the magic behind it. I thought Cell would make more sense since Gohan saved the day and learned his biggest life lesson from his father's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Well if you think about it. Goku's fate was a little ambiguous after Namek exploded. Toriyama wanted to make Gohan the main character. That would have been one spot to kill Goku off and let that happen. When he had to bring Goku back for Cell, he had the explosion scene as another shot at still making gohan the main. And then he had to bring him back for buu. But It makes me happy he's since made a parody of DBZ to sort of poke fun at how ridiculously serious it is compared to most of his work. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Andx' timestamp='1324436499' post='5720436'] But It makes me happy he's since made a parody of DBZ to sort of poke fun at how ridiculously serious it is compared to most of his work. xD [/quote] Which one was that, Neko Majin? I've been meaning to look at that at some point or another. And yeah, almost all of his other work is gag-type of stuff .___. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Zero Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 *hears something about a Parody of DBZ* o.O Do tell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Neko Majin Z, yeah that'd be it. Toriyama makes fun of his own series there. Haven't read it, just know a little about it. Like I recall hearing about Vegeta like meeting his brother he never knew about and his family and all that. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 [quote name='Andx' timestamp='1324437818' post='5720477'] Neko Majin Z, yeah that'd be it. Toriyama makes fun of his own series there. Haven't read it, just know a little about it. Like I recall hearing about Vegeta like meeting his brother he never knew about and his family and all that. lol [/quote] [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vFIZtNeqy8"]Lol, yeah that was a good OVA.[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Zero Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 My favorite part of that was where Vegeta was suddenly being all awkward and overly respectful to Tarble's wife. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andx Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Oh btw, got straightened out by my bro on some of the Buu stuff Fuse. xD Mega Buu as fans call him is the super buff form buu took on when he absorbed South Kai. Super Buu is not exactly what mega buu ever was. Super buu is the evil in buu absorbing the good in him but the Mr Buu (and grand supreme kai) is still in there. so super buff buu or mega buu is definitely stronger than kid buu. And Super buu is likely stronger after absorbing some people. While Goku said his chi was growing he does seem to relax afterward. Him and vegeta relax a bit and they wouldn't judge that on size alone. So the power of Kid Buu is still a little ambiguous but got that a little better sorted out. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Errr alright, that all makes sense. Just hard to tell whether Super Buu > Kid Buu >3> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DL Posted December 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 So it went from Bleach to DBZ I can dig this I actually wouldn't mind Gohan being the main at all, as long as we still got glimpses of Goku from other world. But seriously Wtf were those editors thinking GOhan is a great main D< (Goku is too, but..yeah :T) Dragonball itself (before Z) was very gag tho, it was epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Then again, some could consider DB and DBZ as one whole series, kinda like Naruto and Shippuden, separate, but whole. So switching the main character halfway through could be considered a bad move in those regards. I think the Buu saga being urged on by the editors kinda makes sense. When I read it (after having watched the anime), I felt the pacing was a bit rushed. The anime cleverly disguised it because, well, it's DBZ. And DBZ Kai didn't even include the Buu saga, it stopped after Cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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