Gays.

[Dark]

[i]I'm awful at explaining difficult things like this. If you ask a pastor, I'm sure you'll get a better and far mroe complete answer.[/i]

Why should I ask a pastor? Shouldn't all of the followers of a religion know how to explain something that seems so integral to the religion itself? I'm not necessarily calling you stupid; I'm saying that the religion has such complex beliefs that ordinary people can't even comprehend them. So why would you believe in something that you can't even explain to someone else? How can you be sure you can explain the omniscience of a god and the nature of free will to [i]yourself[/i]? You know how I turned into an atheist? I questioned everything my priest said, in my mind.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1310244621' post='5341064']
Why should I ask a pastor? Shouldn't all of the followers of a religion know how to explain something that seems so integral to the religion itself? I'm not necessarily calling you stupid; I'm saying that the religion has such complex beliefs that ordinary people can't even comprehend them. So why would you believe in something that you can't even explain to someone else? How can you be sure you can explain the omniscience of a god and the nature of free will to [i]yourself[/i]? You know how I turned into an atheist? I questioned everything my priest said, in my mind.
[/quote]
I'd butt in and give my explanation, but I'm enjoying this too much. Maybe over Skype sometime.

[Vough]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1310244621' post='5341064']
[i]I'm awful at explaining difficult things like this. If you ask a pastor, I'm sure you'll get a better and far mroe complete answer.[/i]

Why should I ask a pastor? Shouldn't all of the followers of a religion know how to explain something that seems so integral to the religion itself? I'm not necessarily calling you stupid; I'm saying that the religion has such complex beliefs that ordinary people can't even comprehend them. So why would you believe in something that you can't even explain to someone else? How can you be sure you can explain the omniscience of a god and the nature of free will to [i]yourself[/i]? You know how I turned into an atheist? I questioned everything my priest said, in my mind.
[/quote]

Because I didn't go to Bible College

All in all though, I don't understand many things. I don't understand sociopaths or murderers or Jersey Shore, but does that mean I question they exist? I question homosexuality, because I have never had a preference or homosexual thought. Does that mean that I shouldn't believe that they don't exist and that others will be homosexual? No.

And understanding the Bible is through a means of interpretation. Meaning my interpretation of homosexuality may be different than the next guy's. I also do not have the knowledge to explain because it is such a difficult concept to explain, but pastors (usually) have the fluency and the knowledge to explain it in a matter that you could understand.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Maybe you shouldn't be making judgment calls on homosexual behavior if you can't even grasp it.

JUS SAYIN' \(˚∆˚)/

[quote name='Vough' timestamp='1309671654' post='5329774']
I'm only involving religion because it was the topic at hand. And as a Christian there are certain parts of the Bible that you must decipher for yourself (like the Genesis Debate/7 day theory)
How about you try to point out Jesus' BS yourself, then?
And yes, it is possible to love someone but hate their choices. One of my friends had sex when they were 14. I hate the idea of sex before marriage, but does that mean I hate my friend? No.[/quote]
I've already pointed out his BS. Others have probably done this to a far larger degree though, so that's pretty pointless when it's already determined that he either spread bullshit or decent philosophical ideas on a secular level.

A person is only made by the actions the make.

[quote][url]http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-things-gay-people-are-going-to-hate-about-gay-marriage/[/url][/quote]
This contained absolutely nothing of value.

[quote]Reasons why I'm against gay marriage:
1. It's not procreative. Gays simply cannot have children. However, as you might notice, this brings up the topic of sterile men and unfertile women, which leads me to my next point.
2. Studies show that the majority of kids raised by gay parents turn out gay. [url]http://borngay.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000028[/url], [url]http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_prohomo.html[/url][/quote]
WHAT THE RHOMBUS. THESE POINTS DO NOT LEAD INTO EACH OTHER WHATSOEVER. You say this brings up sterile men and unfertile women, then leave it at that. You've disproven your point with that; marriage isn't made to screw the other person. This may be what christians buy into, but that is not the main point of marriage.
As for your second point, I think you're extremely ignorant of the actual amount of gays there are. It was a majority that turned out gay, it was a larger amount than those raised by hetero parents. Reason being they'd be more comfortable to admit it with gay parents than ones that, say, told them they hated the concept of gay sex and marriage(but still loved them herp). Also, bisexuals would lean gay in homosexual familial environments while the opposite is generally true in heterosexual ones.

[quote]3. Why does this matter? Because of the mass amount of gay bullying in today's school which can lead to depression/suicide/staying in the closet for fear of bullying. [url]http://www.nmha.org/go/information/get-info/children-s-mental-health/bullying-and-gay-youth[/url]
4. It devalues the concept of marriage (it always has been meant for heterosexuals, as is meant to be sacred. Marriage (with children) simply does not work as marriage was designed. A strong, father figure that is protective and providing, with a motherly figure that was the caretaker of the family. Gay marriage does not fit both of these roles)
5. I, as well as any other anti-gay marriage supporter, value that marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman.
6. Civil Marriage exists. It does not defile marriage in my eyes and offers the same legal benefits. It's worked great for Britain >.<
7. If gay couples are allowed to marry and adopt kids then this means they will be able to apply for tax exemptions. Federal tax revenue will plummet, and the congress will be forced to cut budgets. Same reason I'm against abortion (sort of >.< but let's not get off topic)[/quote]
3. Bullying still exists because of ignorant morons and the fact that gays are still denied basic rights, such as marriage, making the sexuality foreign to many. And they STILL aren't more likely to be gay, as I've been over.
4 and 5. Marriage is a fabricated word. In a large number of countries the definition includes gay marriage. The fact that you play into gender roles is hilarious, though I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when the Bible spends so much time whipping women into their place.
6. Semantics.
7. "If gay people could marry and adopt they would have the same benefits that heterosexuals got." Listen to yourself, you fascist twat. Not to mention the care they would be bringing towards the adopted.

[quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1309698028' post='5330123']
Atlas, I find it highly ignorant of you to call someone out on following a religion blindly, as if you could completely understand those who do. The Bible openly ridicules foolishness and those who do not value knowledge. You think I don't put serious thought into my own faith? A claim of another's ignorance with no solid argument behind it is nothing more than angry banter. [/quote]
I can understand the mindset, and if you still believe in your religion you're being ignorant. You haven't thought about it hard enough. Sorry.

[quote]Please, if you're going to argue keep it civil. Also, let's try to get off the topic of religion before Dark shows up and the whole conversation turns to s***.[/quote]

Whoops.

[quote name='∞ Skiel ∞' timestamp='1309723573' post='5331027']
I know there is a difference, but I am not sure where or how I'd draw the line between the two
And I'm glad you don't mean in a "life partner" way, in a physical attraction sense, yes, I believe that you would be right[/quote]
Bisexual is a confirmed desire, while confused is more of an "undecided".

And personally, I don't see [i]consensual[/i] extra-marital relationships as bad.

[quote]Are you saying I sound as though I am hiding my attraction? Or that you think I have no attraction?
Honestly, I don't know which it is, I know I've liked women all my life and that to whatever extent I am sexuality attracted to the opposite gender... don't know how it stacks up in comparision to how other males are sexualy attracted to females, but no one does (or should (?))
I might be attracted to men, I've yet to get a boner for a guy, that much I know, or rather as far as I know, Lol, but other than that I really have no idea
Thoughts flow in and out of my head, I've pictured myself with both genders, idk, its why I put myself as "Confused"

And I would agree with the last series of sentences, but heres to the future where we all find out what we are[/quote]
It doesn't sound like there's a gay drive in you, but yeah, experiment. It should be more obvious with age and experience.

[quote]I also see nothing wrong with people "denying" who they are
Men and Women get married to put their own lives into a greater light, marrying for power or status isn't uncommon in today's world
This would be the same thing if a Gay Man married a Straight Woman... no difference in the situation
Also, a homosexual individual can feel attracted to someone of the opposite gender, not in a sexual or even romantic way, but in the terms that they are great together, best friends, they can be together (as I said above)
[/quote]
Nice thinking. I would actually agree with that kind of marriage, so long as the partner knew. Though I find marriage for power and status to be pretty low.

[CrystalCyae]

imo, Gays are just like straights. Seriouly. Both are human, and by being gay you aren't ending the world or something.

What really gets my goat is that gay marriage is illegal in many places. That is just absurd. If someone loves another and is loved back they should be allowed to marry if they so choose. It is completely pathetic and downright stupid that places deny gay marriage.

I couldn't care less if the reason is that it isn't life giving. I don't care. It's love and thats all the matters.

[s]And no, I'm not gay. It's just my sis did a vid on this arguing the same point that I believe. So.... yeah[/s]

[Cowboy Dan]

Being the atheist/Wicca-curous person I am... I don't care. I [i]want[/i] gay marriage to be legal, though, because homosexuals deserve the same rights as heteros.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Cameron Michael' timestamp='1310388067' post='5345129']
Being the atheist/Wicca-curous person I am... I don't care. I [i]want[/i] gay marriage to be legal, though, because homosexuals deserve the same rights as heteros.
[/quote]
I'm Christian and I agree with this post.

[Grunt Issun]

Some people are missing the point here! Marriage is not purley religous! The point of marriage is not to create children, and the point of marriage is not "Because you're already pregnant with there child"
Marriage is supposed to be a bond of love for the other, of course now adays they've screwed that into oblivion! Gays can love people just as much as Straights can, therefor they should be able to get thee "Eternal" bond of marriage just the same as straights, and thats one of my many reasons why Gays should be able to get married.

[Elƒie]

I have a cousin who's gay and he's my absolute favorite family member. Not because he's gay or w/e, its cause just that close. I don't have a problem with gays because in my opinion, sexuality is one of those things we can't decide. Sure, we can go and be gay, straight or bi, but the happiness that comes with it is something we can't force. Its the same thing as preferences, favorite/worst food, favorite color, etc. It just come to us naturally.

[Vough]

[quote name='Lance Corporal Atlas' timestamp='1310370404' post='5344955']
Maybe you shouldn't be making judgment calls on homosexual behavior if you can't even grasp it.

[b]You still argue that religion is bad, even though you have an even slimmer grasp of it. Hypocrite, much?[/b]

I've already pointed out his BS. Others have probably done this to a far larger degree though, so that's pretty pointless when it's already determined that he either spread bullshit or decent philosophical ideas on a secular level.

A person is only made by the actions the make.

[b]You have failed to point out any BS whatsoever. Please let me reiterate; show me what you got about Jesus teaching crap and I'll thoroughly stomp you on it.
[/b]


WHAT THE RHOMBUS. THESE POINTS DO NOT LEAD INTO EACH OTHER WHATSOEVER. You say this brings up sterile men and unfertile women, then leave it at that. You've disproven your point with that; marriage isn't made to screw the other person. This may be what christians buy into, but that is not the main point of marriage.
As for your second point, I think you're extremely ignorant of the actual amount of gays there are. It was a majority that turned out gay, it was a larger amount than those raised by hetero parents. Reason being they'd be more comfortable to admit it with gay parents than ones that, say, told them they hated the concept of gay sex and marriage(but still loved them herp). Also, bisexuals would lean gay in homosexual familial environments while the opposite is generally true in heterosexual ones.

[b]1->2->3[/b]

3. Bullying still exists because of ignorant morons and the fact that gays are still denied basic rights, such as marriage, making the sexuality foreign to many. And they STILL aren't more likely to be gay, as I've been over.
4 and 5. Marriage is a fabricated word. In a large number of countries the definition includes gay marriage. The fact that you play into gender roles is hilarious, though I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when the Bible spends so much time whipping women into their place.
6. Semantics.
7. "If gay people could marry and adopt they would have the same benefits that heterosexuals got." Listen to yourself, you fascist twat. Not to mention the care they would be bringing towards the adopted.

[b]3. So you're saying that there's no racism in schools? That because they're generally accepted means that they won't be discriminated against by some idiot punks? No. It will change nothing.
4/5Tell me once where women are whipped into place. Tell me. I would love to prove you wrong. Yes, I know that women weren't allowed to pray in the Church in the Old Testamet. However, nearly everything in the Old Testament is a History, not a rulebook. Obviously you should reexamine what the Bible really means >.<
I play the gender role because marriage was created with Man + Woman in mind. It wasn't created for Man + Man, Women + Women, Man + Beast, or Woman + Beast.
6. Meh
7. I only say this because I do not know the extent of this with Civil Unions, of whether they are equal rights of tax exemption as marriage does. I am assuming it does now.[/b]

I can understand the mindset, and if you still believe in your religion you're being ignorant. You haven't thought about it hard enough. Sorry.

[b]Yes, because you say religion is wrong you've automaticly given me enough evidence besides you being a stubborn prick. Why do you think religion is bad? Because you say it's ignorant. How is ignorant? You have failed to say.[/b]



I find it hilarious how you competely ignored the argument of Civil Unions. Do you have an argument against that? Because you've only dished out insults or made a fool of yourself by presenting an opinion without facts.
[/quote]

@Aisu

What are your views on Civil Unions?

[Dad]

[quote name='Mikhail Nekem'evič Tal' timestamp='1308001572' post='5281167']
"I think they should burn in Hell forever" said my Baptist friend, Benjamin, who politely said that Gays are dirty, disgusting people and deserve to be boiled in sulphur until the end of time.

I personally think that Hell would be fabulous.

Discuss homosexuals and opinions of them.
[/quote]

He's not a Christian, he's an idiot. Any real Christian will tell you that yes, homosexuality is viewed as a sin. But I am NOT God, so I have no right, or means to damn any homosexual.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Basically, as long as you don't come on to me, we're cool. It is not my place, or anyone else's for that matter, to tell you or any other homosexual "YOU'RE WRONG FOR BEING GAY". Cuz then you just sound like an elitist prick, and you're more likely to get hit by a bus. f***ing dumbass.

[Tentacruel]

Oh, I have no trouble admitting that a lot of Christians are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too judgmental about it.


The fact that some people view homosexuality as a sin is completely irrelevant in politics. The problem at hand is, different people have different definitions of marriage, and none-one seems to be able to compromise.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Hahah. Neg rep spam over a differing opinion = modern day version of Christian shuttle vision acceptance, stoning philosophy.

[quote name='Vough' timestamp='1310448388' post='5347159']
You still argue that religion is bad, even though you have an even slimmer grasp of it. Hypocrite, much?

[b]I'm aware of why people follow a religion. They believe in its principles, they were taught to believe it at a young age, it is societally encouraged/forced for them to follow it, and/or they find comfort in its teachings. You, however, don't even get how somebody could be attracted somebody of the same sex. To judge what you can't even comprehend is illogical, but it's well known that Christianity tosses logic out the window.[/b]

You have failed to point out any BS whatsoever. Please let me reiterate; show me what you got about Jesus teaching crap and I'll thoroughly stomp you on it.
[b]I think you misunderstand. I don't agree with Jesus on homosexuality, slave ownership, and sexism. There are other teachings of his I agree with, but this doesn't correlate with whether he's a holy being or not.

http://www.religionisbullshit.net/christianquestion.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

It's common sense that this mythos-religion is BS. Look into it.[/b]

1->2->3
[b]Okay, glad we established that one and two are wrong.[/b]

3. So you're saying that there's no racism in schools? That because they're generally accepted means that they won't be discriminated against by some idiot punks? No. It will change nothing.
[b]You're right, there is racism in school. Your conclusion would be to, therefore, prevent black marriage and reproduction so that they don't exist to be bullied. You can't choose your race the same way you can't choose your sexuality. How about teaching kids more about acceptance instead of going "WELL PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GONNA HATE THOSE GAYS THAT WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY" while protesting gay marriage.[/b]

4/5Tell me once where women are whipped into place. Tell me. I would love to prove you wrong. Yes, I know that women weren't allowed to pray in the Church in the Old Testamet. However, nearly everything in the Old Testament is a History, not a rulebook. Obviously you should reexamine what the Bible really means >.<
[b]Or rather, men choose to re-examine what the Bible means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxdgCxK4VUA

People saying, "Oh no, we don't believe in that anymore." is a perfect example of how temporary, archaic, and insubstantial religion is.

As for the blatant sexism:
http://members.shaw.ca/tfrisen/Bbl/Sexism/Sexism.html
It exists in Christianity's current preachings of the nuclear family, the limit a woman has in church standings, and it exists in your logic on what a child needs growing up.[/b]

I play the gender role because marriage was created with Man + Woman in mind. It wasn't created for Man + Man, Women + Women, Man + Beast, or Woman + Beast.

[b]And surely, if there weren't bigotism back then, homosexuals would be included in that definition. Marriage was not meant to mix religions or races, but it can now.[/b]

Yes, because you say religion is wrong you've automaticly given me enough evidence besides you being a stubborn prick. Why do you think religion is bad? Because you say it's ignorant. How is ignorant? You have failed to say.
[b]It is ignorant as it isn't a reasoned mindset, but a regurgitated belief system. Note how you tell Dark to refer to a pastor instead of reasoning yourself. Note how religion points to God as a being with some incomprehensible plan whenever they can't explain why a baby was born inside-out. And ignorance is an evil. I commend those who reflect upon and analyze their religion, but it seems that they always say they don't agree with this or that after doing so, clinging to the root concept as it is recognizable to them, yet abandoning all the specific ways to live your life as they can see its flaws, exceptions, and contradictions.[/b]

I find it hilarious how you competely ignored the argument of Civil Unions. Do you have an argument against that? Because you've only dished out insults or made a fool of yourself by presenting an opinion without facts.
[b]I responded with semantics, and that sums up the situation. It's a ploy to garner gay votes while not actually giving them the same rights.

http://www.now.org/issues/marriage/marriage_unions.html[/b][/quote]

[Johan Liebert]

i stay away from gay people.

[Solemn Silver]

[quote]I'm Christian and I agree with this post. [/quote]

Same here, only I'm Roman Catholic, not Christian.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Ctrl+Alt+Win' timestamp='1310502250' post='5349059']
Same here, only I'm Roman Catholic, not Christian.
[/quote]
I though Roman Catholics were a subsection of Cristianity

[Dark]

[quote name='Ctrl+Alt+Win' timestamp='1310502250' post='5349059']
Same here, only I'm Roman Catholic, not Christian.
[/quote]

Catholicism is just a branch of Christianity, much like how Christianity is a branch of Judaism.

haha atlas you got negged haha what a loser

[Solemn Silver]

[quote]Catholicism is just a branch of Christianity, much like how Christianity is a branch of Judaism.

haha atlas you got negged haha what a loser [/quote]

Where I come from nobody is like "No only god exists only Christianity/Catholism is right LALALALALAALALALLALALALALALALA"

People believe what they want to believe.

Well at least thats what I hear from the people aorund me

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1310514951' post='5349772']
haha atlas you got negged haha what a loser
[/quote]
NO YOURE THE LOSER

[Dark]

[quote name='Lance Corporal Atlas' timestamp='1310519139' post='5349926']
NO YOURE THE LOSER
[/quote]

*you're

im sowwy massuh dun hurt mah chillun D:

[Solemn Silver]

I respect people for who they are.

[color="#FFFFFF"]Except miley cyrus, I can stand that w****.[/color]

...Pretty much sums up my opinion.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1310520628' post='5349998']
*you're

im sowwy massuh dun hurt mah chillun D:
[/quote]
*I'm sorry mastuh', please dun' hurt mah' childuns! *face wrought with fear*

well ok

[Vough]

Hahah. Neg rep spam over a differing opinion = modern day version of Christian shuttle vision acceptance, stoning philosophy.

[b]Not differing opinion, you had ignored parts of my argument and stated non-secular opinions without facts.[/b]
[quote]
Vough, on 12 July 2011 - 12:26 AM, said:

You still argue that religion is bad, even though you have an even slimmer grasp of it. Hypocrite, much?

I'm aware of why people follow a religion. They believe in its principles, they were taught to believe it at a young age, it is societally encouraged/forced for them to follow it, and/or they find comfort in its teachings. You, however, don't even get how somebody could be attracted somebody of the same sex. To judge what you can't even comprehend is illogical, but it's well known that Christianity tosses logic out the window.

Religion is also faith. Faith at many times ignores logic but it is not inherently so. I have faith that there is a Divine Creator. I [i]know[/i]
there is a God because of personal experiences I have had that is impossible for atheists to understand or view as possible. You will likely spurn this off as power of suggestion or whatever.

[b]Again, I judge on a base level. You do not know what it is like [i]to be[/i] a Christian or Buddhist or Muslim or Mormon, and judge it on bases of what you can read or research. I base that gays are the same sex that are attracted to each other, and I can think what it would be like. That does not mean I know the thoughts that go through one's head nor the feelings they have. [/b]

You have failed to point out any BS whatsoever. Please let me reiterate; show me what you got about Jesus teaching crap and I'll thoroughly stomp you on it.
I think you misunderstand. I don't agree with Jesus on homosexuality, slave ownership, and sexism. There are other teachings of his I agree with, but this doesn't correlate with whether he's a holy being or not.

http://www.religioni...ianquestion.php



It's common sense that this mythos-religion is BS. Look into it.

1. You have not stated why
2. Jesus didn't encourage slavery. However, he did not stop it. Thing is, the Bible says that for every time you suffer on Earth that you will gain a reward from God in Heaven. So instead of declaring all slaves free, (which Jesus could not have) he preached boundaries because he knew that slaves would be needed in agriculture and that

1->2->3
Okay, glad we established that one and two are wrong.

[b]1 leads to 2 and 2 leads to 3 >.<
[/b]

3. So you're saying that there's no racism in schools? That because they're generally accepted means that they won't be discriminated against by some idiot punks? No. It will change nothing.
You're right, there is racism in school. Your conclusion would be to, therefore, prevent black marriage and reproduction so that they don't exist to be bullied. You can't choose your race the same way you can't choose your sexuality. How about teaching kids more about acceptance instead of going "WELL PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS GONNA HATE THOSE GAYS THAT WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY" while protesting gay marriage.

[b]No, I was showing that even though interracial marriage exists, that there is a mass amount of bullying, and allowing gay marriage is NOT going to change that.[/b]

4/5Tell me once where women are whipped into place. Tell me. I would love to prove you wrong. Yes, I know that women weren't allowed to pray in the Church in the Old Testamet. However, nearly everything in the Old Testament is a History, not a rulebook. Obviously you should reexamine what the Bible really means >.<
Or rather, men choose to re-examine what the Bible means.



People saying, "Oh no, we don't believe in that anymore." is a perfect example of how temporary, archaic, and insubstantial religion is.

As for the blatant sexism:
http://members.shaw....ism/Sexism.html
It exists in Christianity's current preachings of the nuclear family, the limit a woman has in church standings, and it exists in your logic on what a child needs growing up.

[b]This is not sexism, however it is philosophy and teaching. Saying a woman should sit and learn in silence does not mean that she is not allowed to speak; it would be in the same regards to a man. Learn as much as you can without interruption or focusing thoughts on other things. Other such speakings are in terms of unity in marriage.
And my logic is not sexist. A child needs both the nurturing nature of a women and the providing/protective nature of a man. If that is sexist, it is as much against a man than it is against a woman.[/b]
I play the gender role because marriage was created with Man + Woman in mind. It wasn't created for Man + Man, Women + Women, Man + Beast, or Woman + Beast.

And surely, if there weren't bigotism back then, homosexuals would be included in that definition. Marriage was not meant to mix religions or races, but it can now.

It was not for religions. It was not meant for other races because other races had not the same religion. However, if a different race had the same religious views, it is acceptable. This also shows an adaption in today's Christian society.

Yes, because you say religion is wrong you've automaticly given me enough evidence besides you being a stubborn prick. Why do you think religion is bad? Because you say it's ignorant. How is ignorant? You have failed to say.
It is ignorant as it isn't a reasoned mindset, but a regurgitated belief system. Note how you tell Dark to refer to a pastor instead of reasoning yourself. Note how religion points to God as a being with some incomprehensible plan whenever they can't explain why a baby was born inside-out. And ignorance is an evil. I commend those who reflect upon and analyze their religion, but it seems that they always say they don't agree with this or that after doing so, clinging to the root concept as it is recognizable to them, yet abandoning all the specific ways to live your life as they can see its flaws, exceptions, and contradictions.

[b]And you're saying modern-day Christians haven't done that? Analyzing that each person is their own justice as the system is flawed today because man is corrupted. That women are equal to men because of man's corruption and lust. However, my argument isn't that homosexual marriage is against the Bible, it's against marriage as a whole and I honor that it's a sanctified ritual between a man and woman (before God). [/b]

I find it hilarious how you competely ignored the argument of Civil Unions. Do you have an argument against that? Because you've only dished out insults or made a fool of yourself by presenting an opinion without facts.
I responded with semantics, and that sums up the situation. It's a ploy to garner gay votes while not actually giving them the same rights.

[b]Perhaps. But it is still the only solution to gay marriage situation in my case. I AM PERFECTLY OKAY WITH GAYS HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS ME LEGALLY. However, my views of marriage still are against homosexuality for already stated reasons.[/b]
http://www.now.org/i...age_unions.html

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

[quote name='Vough' timestamp='1310538487' post='5350682']

[b]Not differing opinion, you had ignored parts of my argument and stated non-secular opinions without facts.[/b]

I answered all of them, and provided my rationale. The clear driving reason was a disagreement.

[b]Religion is also faith. Faith at many times ignores logic but it is not inherently so. I have faith that there is a Divine Creator. I [i]know[/i]
there is a God because of personal experiences I have had that is impossible for atheists to understand or view as possible. You will likely spurn this off as power of suggestion or whatever.[/b]

I know for a fact that there is an omniscient unicorn of fate because of personal experiences I have had that are impossible for atheists to understand or view as possible. You will likely spurn this off as power of suggestion or whatever.

Fallacious argument.

[b]Again, I judge on a base level. You do not know what it is like [i]to be[/i] a Christian or Buddhist or Muslim or Mormon, and judge it on bases of what you can read or research. I base that gays are the same sex that are attracted to each other, and I can think what it would be like. That does not mean I know the thoughts that go through one's head nor the feelings they have. [/b]
You assume I don't know what it's like to be those incorrectly. And the ability to speculate emotions based off of related experiences may be something you apparently can't achieve, but this is not something universal.

[b]1. You have not stated why
2. Jesus didn't encourage slavery. However, he did not stop it. Thing is, the Bible says that for every time you suffer on Earth that you will gain a reward from God in Heaven. So instead of declaring all slaves free, (which Jesus could not have) he preached boundaries because he knew that slaves would be needed in agriculture and that[/b]

1. I showed you enough points on why for you to go into on your own. If somebody questions gravity I'll link them to the Wikipedia article on it, not waste my time proving what is well-established.
2. For instance, I'll link you to some angry atheist militant's site for this issue:
http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm
Jesus could have made an effort to end slavery, but he didn't. Christianity centers around servitude to a greater being, however, so this shouldn't be that surprising. The Bible is wonderful at encouraging slavery with the promise of an afterlife; it worked wonders on imprisoned blacks.


[b]1 leads to 2 and 2 leads to 3 >.<
[/b]

And I already noted that screwing each other and making children is something christians may preach as a necessity to be able to marry, but not everyone(also elderly couples, sterile people AND the capability for gays to have their sperm donated to impregnate someone), and that the supposed increase is simply an increase in honesty and general respect. The link is broken.

[b]No, I was showing that even though interracial marriage exists, that there is a mass amount of bullying, and allowing gay marriage is NOT going to change that.[/b]
It is a significant step in the process of acceptance. Most gay hatred stems from religion and a general mystery shrouding the culture. Is there still racism? Is there still sexism? Yes. Is it a lot better than it was before? Absolutely.

I mean, just a few years ago the most popular insult was f**, homo, gay, etc. Years before that gays were commonly murdered. Now both instances are rarer.

[b]This is not sexism, however it is philosophy and teaching. Saying a woman should sit and learn in silence does not mean that she is not allowed to speak; it would be in the same regards to a man. Learn as much as you can without interruption or focusing thoughts on other things. Other such speakings are in terms of unity in marriage.
And my logic is not sexist. A child needs both the nurturing nature of a women and the providing/protective nature of a man. If that is sexist, it is as much against a man than it is against a woman.[/b]

Haha, sorry, but you can't swap roles with "the head of the woman is a man", kind of ruins the message that women serve their husband. And you're right, you are being sexist with both sexes when you assume there are concrete personalities between the two.

I guess we should take children away from single parents. It's not like many of them grew up to do great and wonderful things.

[b]It was not for religions. It was not meant for other races because other races had not the same religion. However, if a different race had the same religious views, it is acceptable. This also shows an adaption in today's Christian society.[/b]
So you disapprove of those with different faiths marrying?

[b]And you're saying modern-day Christians haven't done that? Analyzing that each person is their own justice as the system is flawed today because man is corrupted. That women are equal to men because of man's corruption and lust. However, my argument isn't that homosexual marriage is against the Bible, it's against marriage as a whole and I honor that it's a sanctified ritual between a man and woman (before God). [/b]
Of course I am. Just look at the "god-damned" Bible Belt. As for your statement on it going against marriage, see below.

[b]Perhaps. But it is still the only solution to gay marriage situation in my case. I AM PERFECTLY OKAY WITH GAYS HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS ME LEGALLY. However, my views of marriage still are against homosexuality for already stated reasons.[/b]
This is why I said semantics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_marriage

If this it what your argument comes down to, then we're done. Civil marriage isn't religious. I doubt most gays would [i]want[/i] a religious marriage. The religious union done at a church would still be up to them. Civil marriage, recognition by the government(separation of church and state chief) is what they want. [/quote]

[Dad]

You don't have to have a religious ceremony to get married, but for some folks it's the right thing to do. FOR THEM. But if it ain't for you, shut the f*** up and let it go. As for this s*** about how the Bible "encourages slavery" or "says we should follow Jesus", see this:

Christianity, (by most faiths) is NOT all about serving our Lord and savior. It's about having faith, trying to be morally comprehensive and virtuous, and overall, not being a PRICK. You can find all the flaws you want amongst the stories told, but their value isn't gonna change. While you got these self-righteous motherf***ers prancin' around talkin' about how much they love Jesus, but hate the gays, they're not Christians. And the same goes for the brother who seems to think the Bible is quoted word for word. Learn to read between the lines you little s***. If you took every word from the Bible and pinpoint reacted on your life, you'd be the FIRST motherf***er in hell.

And if giving my God a thank you every now and then is "serving him through slavery" or however you might put it, then maybe I'm just being a little grateful for what I believe. Too much is being put in blatant terms with no f***ing understanding.