[Tag Force 5] Infernity Zero

[Zowayix]

[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100107050222/yugioh/images/thumb/e/e3/InfernityZero-JP-Anime-5D.png/300px-InfernityZero-JP-Anime-5D.png[/img]

Tag Force 5 changed Infernity Zero's effect a little from the anime.

Anime effect:
[size="1"]This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by discarding all other cards in your hand [b]when your Life Points become 0[/b] by an opponent's card effect. While this card is face-up on the field, you cannot lose the Duel. This card cannot be destroyed by battle. [b]If you take 500 or more damage,[/b] place 1 Doom Counter on this card [b]for each multiple of 500 damage you took.[/b] When there are 3 Doom Counters on this card, destroy this card.[/size]

Tag Force 5 effect:
This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except by this card's effect. When your opponent activates a card or effect that would inflict damage, [b]while your Life Points are 2000 or less[/b], you can discard all other cards in your hand to Special Summon this card from your hand. You do not lose the Duel even if your Life Points become 0. [b]If you have no cards in your hand,[/b] this card cannot be destroyed by battle. [b]For each time you take damage,[/b] place 1 Des Counter on this card. When there are 3 Des Counters on this card, destroy it.

Changes are marked in bold.

The Tag Force 5 effect makes it slightly easier to Summon and avoids breaking the "0 LP = instant loss" rule.
It's only impervious to battle destruction if you have no cards in your hand, which I don't think affects it that much since a deck running this is likely to end up handless most of the time anyway.
The new counter effect now requires you to take damage 3 separate times, but now becomes extremely vulnerable to Dark Room of Nightmare.

Do you think the new effect improves or worsens Infernity Zero?

Discuss the only playable card that prevents one from losing.

[Sunshine Jesse]

Use in conjunction with Volcanic Queen or something idk

[wiithepeople]

Question here.
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070305191259/yugioh/images/f/f7/ReversalQuizDR1-EN-C-UE.jpg[/img]

Would this work in conjunction with Zero? I figured it's effect would resolve before the fact that you have 0 LP, similar to Gallis' effect.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='wiithepeople' timestamp='1304395193' post='5185344']
Question here.
[img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070305191259/yugioh/images/f/f7/ReversalQuizDR1-EN-C-UE.jpg[/img]

Would this work in conjunction with Zero? I figured it's effect would resolve before the fact that you have 0 LP, similar to Gallis' effect.
[/quote]

If the Anime effect:

First, you Special Summon Infernity Zero when your Life Points become 0, making it a Trigger Effect. You cannot attempt to activate anything else except Infernity Zero at this timing (since you lost the duel otherwise). You cannot Special Summon Infernity Zero in the middle of a chain, so you cannot do something like "Reversal Quiz -> Ring of Destruction", where Ring of Destruction takes you to 0 Life Points, then interrupt your chain with Infernity Zero before Reversal Quiz resolves. You would miss the timing for Infernity Zero if something like this happened.

The "You do not lose the duel even if your Life Points are at 0" is a Continuous Effect. Infernity Zero must be face-up on the field in order for that to stay in effect.

If you activate "Reversal Quiz" while your Life Points are 0 and pay the cost to send all cards in your Hand and on the Field to the Graveyard, you will lose the Duel before either player can even Chain anything to "Reversal Quiz"

[s]or If you're trying to go something like the following with the Tag Force 5 effect:

Chain Link #1 - Reversal Quiz
Chain Link #2 - Opponent activates a card that would inflict Damage
Chain LInk #3 - Special Summon Infernity Zero

then...

Chain Link #3 - Infernity Zero is Special Summoned
Chain Link #2 - Infernity Zero turns the damage into a Des Counter.
Chain Link #1 - You resolve Reversal Quiz like normal.

Not sure which effect you're trying to use o.x; If this didn't somehow answer it, tell me what you're trying to do with Reversal Quiz as there is no way you can pay its cost while keeping Infernity Zero on the field if you're at 0 Life Points.[/s]

Made a mistake with reading the card effect >_< Explained in a later post.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1304397166' post='5185382']
The "You do not lose the duel even if your Life Points are at 0" is a Continuous Effect. Infernity Zero must be face-up on the field in order for that to stay in effect.
[/quote]
Not quite.
Its like that old Winged Dragon of Ra OTK.
You Summon Ra, and equip him with Black Pendant. You then use Ra's effect to set your LP to 100, and RA gains that much in ATK.
Play Reversal Quiz.
Your whole field is sent to the Graveyard -> Black Pendant's effect cannot activate mid-effect, so it it has too wait for Quiz to finish.
Pick Spell card as the card you guess(since the whole deck was 99% spell cards with the 1% monster being Ra)
Opponent's LP becomes 100
Black Pendant deals 500 damage
Game.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1304403324' post='5185526']
Not quite.
Its like that old Winged Dragon of Ra OTK.
You Summon Ra, and equip him with Black Pendant. You then use Ra's effect to set your LP to 100, and RA gains that much in ATK.
Play Reversal Quiz.
Your whole field is sent to the Graveyard -> Black Pendant's effect cannot activate mid-effect, so it it has too wait for Quiz to finish.
Pick Spell card as the card you guess(since the whole deck was 99% spell cards with the 1% monster being Ra)
Opponent's LP becomes 100
Black Pendant deals 500 damage
Game.
[/quote]

That's not like it at all because "Black Pendant's" effect that inflicts damage is a Trigger Effect. It activates and starts a Chain. If Black Pendant's damage were Continuous, Black Pendant would inflict the 500 Damage before Reversal Quiz gets to resolve, ruining that combo.

**Had to fix the above**

With the Anime Effect, I don't know how you're getting "Your cannot lose even when your Life Points are at 0" as being a Trigger Effect. Its not. It is Continuous and only works while Infernity Zero is face-up on the field.

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

If your life points are above 0 when this card is removed from the field, I assume that you do not lose the duel because the opponent's win condition is no longer satisfied.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='TheTurtleOnceCalledGod' timestamp='1304413762' post='5185625']
If your life points are above 0 when this card is removed from the field, I assume that you do not lose the duel because the opponent's win condition is no longer satisfied.
[/quote]

Well, yeah, if you weren't at 0 Life Points when Infernity Zero was removed, you'd be just fine No one's mentioned anything about recovering LP though, just them trying to figure out some way to use Reversal Quiz while you had (or were going to have at resolution) 0 Life Points.

[Resident Fascist]

Ofc Tag force 5 Version is better.

[CDDRodrigo]

I wouldn't mind it getting released, but it's too late for that now

[Zowayix]

I suppose the method that darkwolf777 posted would work, as you pay the cost before you hit 0 LP, and resolve after you hit 0 LP. However, no opponent would play a damaging card in response to Reversal Quiz.

A better OTK method is to get this out, then play Self-Destruct Button. There's no damage involved, so Infernity Zero gets no Des Counters. Both players drop to 0 LP, but the player controlling Infernity Zero doesn't lose, so he/she wins.

Would Phantom of Chaos work with this card?

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Zowayix' timestamp='1304454182' post='5186275']
I suppose the method that darkwolf777 posted would work, as you pay the cost before you hit 0 LP, and resolve after you hit 0 LP. However, no opponent would play a damaging card in response to Reversal Quiz.

A better OTK method is to get this out, then play Self-Destruct Button. There's no damage involved, so Infernity Zero gets no Des Counters. Both players drop to 0 LP, but the player controlling Infernity Zero doesn't lose, so he/she wins.

Would Phantom of Chaos work with this card?
[/quote]

[s]What are you talking about, I said it would [b]NEVER[/b] work x.x[/s]

[s]I made a big mistake in reading the effect. What I said actually would work o.x[/s]

And again, more mistakes lead to it cannot be done because it wouldn't be in your hand to activate xD

[Zowayix]

Oops, I forgot that you have to empty your hand before the opponent damages you. I must have misread the post. Sorry.

But would this work? (Requires a stupid opponent and insane luck)
- You have 2000 LP or fewer.
- You activate Reversal Quiz, emptying your hand and field to pay its cost.
- Opponent chains some damaging Trap Card like Blasting the Ruins or w/e that would drop your LP to 0.
- Opponent then chains The Gift of Greed. (lol)
- You draw 2 cards, one of them being Infernity Zero.
- The damaging effect activates. You discard 1 card to Summon Infernity Zero.
- You drop to 0 LP without losing. Infernity Zero gets a Des Counter.
- Reversal Quiz activates, switching both players' LP. Opponent now has 0 LP and loses.

Yeah, it's so unlikely it would probably never ever happen, but this just a proof of concept that Infernity Zero+Reversal Quiz technically works.

EDIT:
Just thought of another method. Simply use Diamond Dude's effect to avoid the cost completely, while you have 0 LP and Infernity Zero on the field.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Zowayix' timestamp='1304464168' post='5186641']
Oops, I forgot that you have to empty your hand before the opponent damages you. I must have misread the post. Sorry.

But would this work? (Requires a stupid opponent and insane luck)
- You have 2000 LP or fewer.
- You activate Reversal Quiz, emptying your hand and field to pay its cost.
- Opponent chains some damaging Trap Card like Blasting the Ruins or w/e that would drop your LP to 0.
- Opponent then chains The Gift of Greed. (lol)
- You draw 2 cards, one of them being Infernity Zero.
[b]- The damaging effect activates. You discard 1 card to Summon Infernity Zero.[/b]
- You drop to 0 LP without losing. Infernity Zero gets a Des Counter.
- Reversal Quiz activates, switching both players' LP. Opponent now has 0 LP and loses.
[/quote]

You would miss the timing to Special Summon "Infernity Zero" (with the Anime Effect). You cannot do so while a chain is resolving. With the Tag Force 5 effect, you'd have to chain it to "Blasting The Ruins", which doing so I know realize would work, thanks to me misreading the effect.

[quote name='Zowayix' timestamp='1304464168' post='5186641']
Just thought of another method. Simply use Diamond Dude's effect to avoid the cost completely, while you have 0 LP and Infernity Zero on the field.
[/quote]

This would actually work without any overly complicated chain. Good Job.

[quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1304397166' post='5185382']
Chain Link #1 - Reversal Quiz
Chain Link #2 - Opponent activates a card that would inflict Damage
Chain Link #3 - Special Summon Infernity Zero

then...

Chain Link #3 - Infernity Zero is Special Summoned
[b]Chain Link #2 - Infernity Zero turns the damage into a Des Counter.[/b]
Chain Link #1 - You resolve Reversal Quiz like normal.
[/quote]

I goofed up here. I thought the Tag Force 5 effect said it turned damage into a Des Counter, which is not what the card states. It just states that if you take damage, place 1 Des Counter.

In which case, that Chain Link #2 becomes "You take damage (bringing your Life Points to 0) and place 1 Des Counter on this card".

So for the Tag Force 5 effect, Reversal Quiz will resolve while you have 0 Life Points if this happened. I really gotta read more carefully.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

Maharagi

[Zowayix]

@darkwolf777: The situation mentioned in the last quote of your post wouldn't work - you'd have to empty your hand before the opponent used their damaging effect, so Infernity Zero wouldn't be in your hand.
There would have to be some kind of effect involved that gets at least 2 cards into your hand before the opponent uses their damaging effect. The first one I could think of was the opponent activating The Gift of Greed. Do you know of any more likely ones? (It has to occur during your own turn, without involving anything in your hand or field.)

@Darkplant: What's Maharagi?

[DARKPLANT RISING]

Something with a simular pic.

[darkwolf777]

[quote name='Zowayix' timestamp='1304555108' post='5188575']
@darkwolf777: The situation mentioned in the last quote of your post wouldn't work - you'd have to empty your hand before the opponent used their damaging effect, so Infernity Zero wouldn't be in your hand.
There would have to be some kind of effect involved that gets at least 2 cards into your hand before the opponent uses their damaging effect. The first one I could think of was the opponent activating The Gift of Greed. Do you know of any more likely ones? (It has to occur during your own turn, without involving anything in your hand or field.)
[/quote]

Hm but as I mentioned you cannot just Special Summon him within the Chain like that, cause it'll miss the timing (with Anime Effect), and Tag Force 5 version needs to be chained to the card that deals damage. I guess that leaves the only way would be with Diamond Dood.