Yu-Gi-Oh! ZeXal Sub/Manga Official Discussion Thread

[heraldry_lord]

Wait, I thought those were the new ones. I was talking about Kaito going to see Dr. Faker, some Astral Rank-Up called the Eighth One or something, Kaito's deck glowing, and giving him Number 62.

 

The Vector vs Durbe/Merag etc. previews are real.  The previous ones (Number 62, Dr. Faker, etc.) are fake.  I was confused, because you said the Wikia had the "original previews", but when I looked, the real ones were there.

[evilfusion]

But wasn't there the whole deal where the rest of the Barian's thought that Vector was stupid for releasing Don Thousand? It implies that even the Barian's don't want him unsealed. Save for Vector whose insane.

 

It is an incredibly stupid thing to do. Alit and Gilag definitely reacted in that sort of way.

 

If you look at it just from a purely logical standpoint: What good could Don Thousand possibly do for the Barians? He's the god of the world, and the most blatantly evil being in the entire Barian World. Vector comes the next closest, and he's insane. I've noted that once Vector's use to Don Thousand is fulfilled, I expect Don Thousand to dispose of him without the slightest care.

 

To release someone more powerful than yourself is to beg to be oppressed by him in the future. Vector also unleashed him for the purpose of revenge and becoming more powerful, both extremely short-sighted goals, even if by extension, you save the Barian World from destruction by defeating Astral. Vector's tendency to backstab the other Barians, and his past life as an (unstable) ruler also indicates that Vector wants to be the supreme figure of the Barian World.

 

So yeah...it's stupid. The other Barians want their world to be safe, and it'll only be safe if the Astral World is destroyed. And the whole thing with the Numeron Code, of course.

 

Fake Numbers won't be printed. We saw Fake!Number 10, and it had  the same stats and effect as the real one, just a slightly different name and DARK Attribute. There's no reason to print a card that is literally the exact same card as a real Number, with such mild differences. Over-Hundred Numbers are a plot point.

 

What we're getting, really, is we learn the effects and number of REAL Numbers, but that particular card is fake, so none of the protagonists have them, even after winning the Duels. And because they're fake, we don't even know if any of the characters have the real ones. (Such as 1-4 being ambiguous whether Vector gave Heartland and the assassins fake copies of the real Numbers Don Thousand gave him, or if Don Thousand never had real Numbers, and gave Vector fakes ones to distribute to Heartland and the assassins).

 

THIS is why I hate the fake Numbers plot point. If the plot's origin was collecting the 100 Astral World Numbers, and we already have some in Yuma's possession that were never revealed or shown, we then have the issue of Numbers that we were shown, but have no way to be sure who has them now, if at all.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Why?

I mean, Yuma has half of them.

Why couldn't he use some of them?

For that matter, the whole concept of the Numbers was that there were 100 of them.

It could be like Ben 10. Yuma could use different Numbers in different situations.

And his Deck was supposed to be flexible enough with Levels to do this.

So why didn't this happen?

 

Because Yuma developed a Hope fetish about 10 episodes into series one. The fact ti kept getting upgrades didn't help that idea.

 

That and like when amazing Numbers started being things that was harder.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

That and like when amazing Numbers started being things that was harder.

Your English is kind of broken here.

What do you mean?

[evilfusion]

Why?

I mean, Yuma has half of them.

Why couldn't he use some of them?

For that matter, the whole concept of the Numbers was that there were 100 of them.

It could be like Ben 10. Yuma could use different Numbers in different situations.

And his Deck was supposed to be flexible enough with Levels to do this.

So why didn't this happen?

 

Don't get me started on this subject, please. It's my biggest problem with the show. I love writing big walls of text where I analyze stuff to death, but I've written like a dozen rants about this particular subject, and my thoughts haven't changed on it at all.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

Don't get me started on this subject, please. It's my biggest problem with the show. I love writing big walls of text where I analyze stuff to death, but I've written like a dozen rants about this particular subject, and my thoughts haven't changed on it at all.

Ooh.

Links?

[Aerion Brightflame]

Your English is kind of broken here.

What do you mean?

 

In that when Big Eye and Volca became things the show would've become crap.

 

If Yuma could use them all the time, duels would stop being entertaining, even from just an anime perspective, because well it would make it all to easy.

 

It's stupid that they didn't take the 100 Numbers concept as well as they should have but it's still been a really good show. As YGO ones go

[heraldry_lord]

In that when Big Eye and Volca became things the show would've become crap.

 

He nearly FTK'ed a guy with Atlanthal and Volcasaurus, and 69 would be out of the question, so I see what you mean, but it still would've been nice to see the Numbers in action.

[evilfusion]

Ooh.

Links?

 

Most of them are somewhere in this topic. I'm no more willing to dig through the 200+ pages to find them than you are.

 

Hm...maybe my content history can help...

 

And it's true, that if Yuma consistently Summoned the better Numbers, he could win significantly more easily, or make Duels extremely anti-climactic. The alternative would be that his opponent would always have a counter to that particular effect, sort of like how the Gate Giant (Unformed Void user) had the Field Spell that prevented Volcasaurus from killing him in an instant.

 

Note that when Yuma got C39- V, he used that effect to OTK Gilag, practically OTK the tag team couple, OTK Vector, nearly OTK Vector AGAIN...and then he got Numeron Force, which evidently only Summons Victory (of the two Rank-Up C39s). Volcasaurus' anime effect is more broken than C39-V.

[heraldry_lord]

Most of them are somewhere in this topic. I'm no more willing to dig through the 200+ pages to find them than you are.

 

Hm...maybe my content history can help...

 

And it's true, that if Yuma consistently Summoned the better Numbers, he could win significantly more easily, or make Duels extremely anti-climactic. The alternative would be that his opponent would always have a counter to that particular effect, sort of like how the Gate Giant (Unformed Void user) had the Field Spell that prevented Volcasaurus from killing him in an instant.

 

Note that when Yuma got C39- V, he used that effect to OTK Gilag, practically OTK the tag team couple, OTK Vector, nearly OTK Vector AGAIN...and then he got Numeron Force, which evidently only Summons Victory (of the two Rank-Up C39s). Volcasaurus' anime effect is more broken than C39-V.

 

It'd be hilarious if Yuma actually used Big Eye to steal his opponent's ace Xyz for a change.  At least we're getting Lion Heart usage next episode, and it isn't random (looking at you, Terror-Byte vs Coach guy), so that's a bonus.

[Aerion Brightflame]

It'd be hilarious if Yuma actually used Big Eye to steal his opponent's ace Xyz for a change.  At least we're getting Lion Heart usage next episode, and it isn't random (looking at you, Terror-Byte vs Coach guy), so that's a bonus.

 

Terror-Byte wasn't exactly random.

 

He knew that Barian's Force reduced attack, so what better than to summon a Number that was just a mssive wall instead?

[Bringerofcake]

I don't think that Zexal is going to end after this arc. I think it's going to be a sort of a clean-up arc after this, because the original plot isn't resolved yet (the gate, the memories, Yuma's dad) and there's too much going on right now to resolve it in this season.

[More than 3 characters]

Of course they have given an in-universe explanation to why Yuma uses Hope so much. I think it was in the episode where Astral dueled No. 96, I could be wrong, but I remember them saying that Hope represents the bonds between Yuma and Astral, and Zexal is kinda largely about friendship.

[Faytl]

Man, with all those creepy faces Alit was throwing around at the beginning of the episode, he was starting to look lie early-Zexal Shark. The fact that his hair looks almost identical to Shark's doesn't help much.

Agree fully on the Fake Numbers plot; Utter ridiculousness. Let's just hope Yuma gets his hands on the real ones when he beats Nasch/Vector/Don Thousand/WHOEVER THE HELL has them.

[Jord200]

Black Corn in the manga is more or less a Rank 4 Volca. Yuma's used it twice. One time for game.

Fran Ken's manga effect………Ok, if they didn't destroy Fran Ken right then and there, the duel would pretty much be over, given Fran Ken's manga effect. 

[Sleepy]

I'll be honest, as much stuff that is happening there is, I'm not really all that exited about anything.

I'm not sure if it's me growing out of the Yugioh anime in general, or if ZeXal is just doing too many things that annoy me.

I want to enjoy my card-game weekly show, I really do.

 

The fact we don't know several of Yuma's Numbers is also greatly wasted potential.

It'd be an excuse for him to use new Numbers that adjust to situations without it looking like a main character's boss just came to be for Deus Ex Machina.

 

 

 

Most of the touchy scenes of the show don't work, if not all.

-Last time Yuma loudly cried to III, my brother even laughed at the face Yuma did, because he reacts the same way. Of all the characters he's done that for, III was the one that probably deserved it, but BECAUSE Yuma has done it before a few times already with characters that were less close to him, it lost it's touch, if it ever had any.

-He had no reason to react like that to IV's loss. Yuma never interacted with IV at all. It was forced as all hell.

-Shingetsu (is that how you spell it?) from the very beginning forced himself into Yuma. Granted I didn't know he was gonna turn out to be a bad guy at first, but I did notice they wanted for force him into the show. There was nothing to it. Yusei and Bruno had the same hobbies and much of their mindset and even spent 3 days with no sleep to work on something together. Shingetsu just followed Yuma around. and hardly even looked at the rest of the crew.

-There is the forced shoving of the rest of the crew as friend too. That guy Takashi Todoriki (which btw, I had to go to Google to see what the guy's name even was). You know, the blue haired guy. Why is he holding Number Club Card #2? Something in the episode that showed that, evidently wanted it to look important, but he isn't at all. Tokunosuke never stops looking at his friends as tools to get what he wants. He should hardly even be around. I like Tetsuo's character, but the series does nothing with him, and that's wasted. Kathy is good, but just like with Tetsuo, the show does nothing with her anymore.

-Kotori needs her own point here. Why does she exist? I understand it if they want to have a fan-service character, no problem, but couldn't it have been a more proactive and useful one? Her time at Zargasso was a good example of her being proactive, and an awful show of episode filler too. Also, I couldn't help but say "REALLY!?" when the Heartland fake Number minion injected her with some drug to numb her senses and kidnapped her, along with the rest of the cheerleader friends. Yet Yuma just looked at them and then back to bussiness. Why is it that watching your school mates and your moe childhood girl friend in that condition does not warrant the same drama that III, Vector, and even IV got? The girl is useless, but she's been there supporting him for years now.

 

The face I saw Korra make at the end of this last week's Legend of Korra episode was much stronger than any and all overacted cries Yuma has done in Zexal.

 

 

 

The Barian duels we got were mostly wasted potential. They had the ideal match-ups that I wouldn't mind wasting time with. I wanted to see Esparrobin vs Misael, Droite vs Durbe with their smartness, Gauche vs Alit and their burning passion ways, Rio vs Tetsuo (because I do think it was kinda cute), and Vector not ditching the other barians so blatantly. Seriously why do they allow him to go sit down? If someone should be sitting down, it is the leader of the team. I haven't watched subs of it but someone please tell me that makes any sense with dialog. We didn't need another Duel to show Neo Tachyion's effect. I also wanted to see, not Gilag, but the old man playing old school.

 

 

 

The episodes are a bit busy and IDK, Maybe it's that I don't quite see where this is going despite the show having the main enemies actually doing something. Maybe it's that all of them just moved into it at the same time and pretty much only Yuma and Kaito can do anything, so to beat the Barians, they'd have to each duel 3 to 4 times. What is it?... rushed? It's part of what I disliked about the dark signers. That they all of a sudden were together and in an all out fight instead of each of them getting a reasonable time and buildup. I can't put my finger on it, but I'm somehow not exited about this arc. 

[evilfusion]

You have solid points.

 

Yuma wasn't reacting specifically to IV's loss. He was probably told about the other characters who had faced off with the Barians and lost, and that IV was among them. The very idea that his friends had faced off against opponents vastly superior to themselves, and facing the equivalent of death, JUST to buy him time to escape from them, would be heart-wrenching.

 

I despised Shingetsu for the same reason, and the hints that he was more important than what he outwardly appeared to be were too vague to mean anything, and often forgotten easily. It wasn't until the Gilag tag Duel that I liked him a LITTLE, but the reveal he was Vector was so beautifully twisted that it became major points for Vector, and I still see Shingetsu as he was to be utterly worthless as a character. That had been the point with Vector's plan, but it doesn't sit well with audiences who have to endure him being uselessly annoying for about 15+ episodes.

 

The "friends" being around constantly is even more annoying when they blatantly stick to Yuma for literally no reason. Such as when Yuma was going off to rescue Shingetsu, he pretty much said that he was going alone, and then boom, the group of friends literally sneak in at the last second. And they do nothing except nearly get swallowed up by Sargasso. It was so blatant.

 

Tokunosuke gets only slight redeeming moments when he revealed he had picked up Fake Number 10 because he always felt useless and wanted to be able to help Yuma. He feels useless because HE IS USELESS, but the moment was still a nice touch.

 

Kathy could be good, but she exists to be a rival love interest against Kotori, and Kotori doesn't seem to realize the reason for the hostility, making it petty and one-sided, when Yuma has no noticeable interest in either of them.

 

I would have thought the Barian Duels were to showcase that those characters stood no chance against the Barian emperors. Except...you know, they evidently did, because the Barians all needed their Chaos Numbers to win. As for why Vector was "allowed" to just sit down...Vector does that. He operates on his own whims and desires without anyone ever really having influence over him. He wanted to see Nasch's power, so he watched that Duel. He also did it fairly discreetly, it wasn't like he was standing on the sidelines in plain view, which WOULD probably prompt Nasch to tell him to do something relevant. So it's not dialogue relevant, but it does fit with Vector's character.

 

Of all the Barians, I would think Mizael is the best equipped to handle both III and V simultaneously, when they're using Argent Chaos Force. The fact Mizael has C107 is just a bonus.

 

I noticed the issue with the 7 Barians not having an equal number of adversaries to be a problem. Back when it was just 5 Barian lords out of 7, and 3 protagonists, we could have the usual "main protagonist Duels the most" thing that Yugioh shows do. Gilag, Alit, and Vector would probably be Yuma's adversaries, Durbe would have Shark, and Mizael would have Kaito. But with Shark removed, and Merag and Nasch added to the Barian ranks, we now have 7 opponents against 2 protagonists. And since III, IV, and V are out of the picture...it's horribly inbalanced.

 

Either Vector will successfully take out several of his own allies to even the numbers, or Kaito had better pick up the slack, because if Yuma has to defeat most of the Barians himself, then probably have an epic Duel against Don Thousand or whatever, then that's just lame.

[Faytl]

Don't forget that Alit will be taking on Gilag. Way it is now, the intended matchups look to be:

 

Yuma vs Alit (current duel) - Yuma wins, putting Alit on his side

 

Alit vs Gilag- I'm betting Alit wins or they fight to a draw or something, SOME scenario that outs Gilag out of commission

 

Vector vs Merag and Durbe- Vector wins, I'd assume, leaving Merag and Durbe out of the picture

 

Kaito vs Misael- Kaito wins

 

And then Yuma takes on Nasch and Vector. Although... I wouldn't say no to Nasch defeating Vector.

[Sleepy]

But as discreet as Vector might be there, his absence should still be pretty blatant. I mean, Nach was the pillar that made the other Barians draw the new RUM, so there must be a connection there, and one that he wouldn't have felt when performing it. It was also further clarified by the fact Nach showed IV videos of all the losing ends, and it was just 5 screens. Btw, should I assume Vector didn't get the 7 Swords card?

 

It still kinda sounds anti-climatic to have Barians take out Barians. They all have had some build-up. Durbe was practically the leader for a long time, and to be taken out by Vector while even dueling with a companion. Shark better get out of that ambush too, he's supposed to be the focus villain. Now he feels more like a hostage.

[TFMegamanlan]

I think it may end up that Nacsh and Yuma will team up to beat Don Thousand since the OP and Ending themes show him as a main protagonist still...

Seesh... Yugi's friends were more helpful and they never did anything except duel during the Virtual Arc and still Tristan lost.... I honestly wish they don't have it just Yuma for the endgame... Do more like 5D's ending. That was a cool ending.

[Sleepy]

I think it may end up that Nacsh and Yuma will team up to beat Don Thousand since the OP and Ending themes show him as a main protagonist still...

Seesh... Yugi's friends were more helpful and they never did anything except duel during the Virtual Arc and still Tristan lost.... I honestly wish they don't have it just Yuma for the endgame... Do more like 5D's ending. That was a cool ending.

That's because the original series had more background for them and all of them have equal footing, being normal kids in a normal world, and having times to shine in some way or another. Also, Tristan/Honda rescued Mokuba from Pegasus' dungeon on his own, and knocked Zork/Bakura uncounsious. As fillery it might have seen compared to Pegasus' duel, you have to admit that was something.

 

Meanwhile, Yuma's universe is more card-game centric than ever, and so, the sidekicks' attributes and qualities become more and more useless to the plot because of it. Next generation (if there is any and I think there will be) Yugioh needs to correct all the mistakes that ZeXal is doing.

 

Even GX had a decent mix of the IRL world into it to help one breath from all the Duels, meanwhile Zexal is all non-stop duels of OTK bosses, really.

[evilfusion]

Each series has its own faults and advantages to the approaches, though.

 

Yugi's world was, for the most part, normal. To make the card games significant, we had numerous tournament arcs: Duelist Kingdom, Battle City, Virtual World (technically not a tournament arc, but the idea was still there. It was a filler arc, though), the Orichalcos arc (filler again), and then the Egyptian arc, which was less card games and more REAL monsters. In terms of characters, they were mostly normal and Dueling was a hobby. Kaiba's obsession with the game is what escalated the Duels to be so serious, and the villains made it moreso.

 

But in the original series' defense, they were using magic artifacts in the high-stakes Duels.

 

GX was deliberately more card-game based, taking place in a school. That meant almost all the characters were Duelists, and their reasons for Dueling anywhere from petty amusement to serious matches with reputation being the main factor. The stakes got upped when magic was once again involved, and then we had the annoyance of the side characters being useless not only because they were inferior to the other main Duelists, but because they didn't have plot trinkets the antagonists wanted.

 

5Ds made Dueling a major spectator sport with Riding Duels. The non-Duelist characters (Satellite characters mostly) got ditched as a result, and the other Duelist characters tended to get less Duels than Yusei, but it was more or less a good series. The second arc of the series (post Dark-Signer) did a bit too much in reining in other characters and their Dueling, though, and the tendency to send Yusei against absurd odds was a bit too predictable, but still fun to watch.

 

Zexal's issue with characters is that for the longest time, they couldn't see Astral. Which made sense, but it meant Yuma was a horrendous Duelist whose interactions with Astral and the Numbers FORCED his friends out of the loop to varying degrees. Still, their friendships seemed legit (except for Tokunosuke, whose entire shtick was being a manipulative prick, and being friends with Yuma meant he had no purpose), such as Yuma and Tetsuo's bickering at times, with Kotori as a mediator.

 

They showcased Kotori way too much as well, especially since was evidently not a Duelist, and therefore needed terminology explained, such as "Xyz Summon", "Advance Summon", etc. This was an obvious way to keep younger audiences up to date with how to Duel, and the fact they followed RL rules was nice and all. But it also made Kotori's persistent presence annoying, because like Aki in the latter stages of 5Ds, she did nothing except look worried constantly and say "Yuma" (Yusei) quietly.

 

The friends here were just wasted potential. They rarely Dueled, and they never received a Number, for better or worse. Tetsuo was given No.39 to battle against Number 96, but nothing else was ever done with him. They really should have given one of Yuma's friends a Number and force him to Duel his Number-possessed friend. Even if a obvious drama attempt, it'd actually DO SOMETHING with that character. Shark came closest by using No.17, then stealing No.30 against Kaito, then getting Number 32.

 

And now, that the stakes are so high that these ordinary Duelists don't stand a chance against the enemies, they're even more useless and AWARE of it. That's why Tokunosuke picked up the Fake Number. Tetsuo hoped to be able to beat Merag, and it was kind of sweet to try, but he was outmatched in the end. The class rep and Kathy both knew they were worthless in this scenario, and Kathy pushing Kotori to accompany Yuma was a nice way of saying that she felt Kotori would be better inspiration and support for Yuma than she would be.

 

But these scenes come so late in the game, and do nothing much for the plot or make them more valuable. They're characters that'll easily be forgotten when the show ends.

[~British Soul~]

We have new Numbers (from LVAL):

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Number_36:_Chronomaly_Fork_Hyuk

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Number_18:_Plain_Coat_the_Heraldic_Ancestor

[evilfusion]

We have new Numbers (from LVAL):

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Number_36:_Chronomaly_Fork_Hyuk

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Number_18:_Plain_Coat_the_Heraldic_Ancestor

 

What the actual F***?

 

First off, AWESOME, they gave us more Numbers that didn't seem to come from the anime or manga (and Number 18 is finally known). On the other hand...They didn't come from the anime or manga, and thus came out of nowhere as part of an archetype that anime characters used.

 

I'm hoping this supports the idea of Tron reappearing.

 

But these cards are WEIRD. No.18 is a Heraldic (not Heraldry or Heraldic Beast) and it's a generic Rank 4 with 2200/2200 stats. Its effect...is really dumb. It kills monsters if a player controls multiple monsters with the same name, and prevents players from Summoning monsters with that name. But when it goes to the Graveyard, you mill 2 Heraldic Beasts. So...it mills a Leo to search something, plus the more useless Heraldic Beasts like Aberconway or Twin-Headed Eagle or Unicorn.

 

No.36 is a Rank 4 that needs Chronomalies...and it detaches 1 to turn an opponent's monster to 0. Then, by Tributing a Chronomaly, you can destroy a monster whose ATK is different from the original ATK. Honestly, this card is pretty awesome, giving the newer Chronomaly cards something to play with for Rank 4s, plus supporting Machu Mach's effect to a degree.

 

But why exactly are we getting a random Heraldic and Chronomaly Number?

 

EDIT: No.18 is a Psychic. Combined with its last effect to mill 2 Heraldic Beasts, that's actually awesome with Unicorn, since the mill effect happens in the Graveyard, and won't be negated. It also works no matter where it was when sent, so you can use Rank-Up Magic and if it's detached or whatever, it'll activate.

 

EDIT 2: I just realized these are numbered JP - 082/84. Legacy of the Valiant is doing something with 10 World Exclusives from the Japanese set. I also noticed there's a new Heraldic Beast in the Set: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Heraldic_Beast_Anfibaena

[~British Soul~]

What the actual F***?

 

First off, AWESOME, they gave us more Numbers that didn't seem to come from the anime or manga (and Number 18 is finally known). On the other hand...They didn't come from the anime or manga, and thus came out of nowhere as part of an archetype that anime characters used.

 

I'm hoping this supports the idea of Tron reappearing.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when I saw Number 18, although tbh, the fact that they came out of nowhere made me think it's like they belonged in a Number Hunters set.

 

EDIT 2: I just realised these are numbered JP - 082/84. Legacy of the Valiant is doing something with 10 World Exclusives from the Japanese set. I also noticed there's a new Heraldic Beast in the Set: http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Heraldic_Beast_Anfibaena

They said that LVAL was going to contain 5 world premier cards in addition to the usual 80.