Yu-Gi-Oh! ZeXal Sub/Manga Official Discussion Thread

[evilfusion]

Similar to above, there's another huge issue with IV's sudden shift.

If he regretted what happened to Shark's sister, then why did he taunt Shark over it in episode 26 (giving him the heavy implication that the 'accident' was not a coincidence) and when encountering Shark in episode 34? My only assumption is that Tron's orders of making Shark fall into his inner darkness required IV to keep hitting that sore spot for Shark to crave revenge. After all, until IV mentioned Shark's sister in episode 26, Shark was keeping his calm, although not enjoying the revelation. But after being told that IV set him up AND hurt his sister, he got PISSED.

But what about IV's sadistic streak? This makes no sense at all.

-Episode 33, V remarks to IV that he's distasteful as always, by targeting his admirers and then hurting them. Plus it's made clear that IV's faking his public persona, acting humble and kind until he can reveal his cruel side. After losing to Kaito and Yuma, he didnt change his personality at all, but after losing to Shark, he did. My bet is his crest has something to do with it. After losing to Shark, his crest seemed to disappear, the same way III's did when Atlanthal was destroyed.

But the above comment by V makes it seem that IV has frequently had a nasty side about him, yet the end of the Duel with Shark, IV seems remorseful about Shark's sister (although not necessarily about anything else).

-IV's misplay is still ridiculous, made worse by the fact Shark genuinely had nothing to save himself if IV hadn't made such a ridiculously bad move. I can't even chalk it up to him being prideful because seriously, it was just STUPID. Unless Destiny Strings only spares monsters the equipped monster battles that are in ATK position, there was no point to attacking a DEF monster with only Heaven's Strings. Even playing Scissors and attacking with the still-equipped Heaven's Strings would have been a better move than not playing Scissors at all.

This is the second greatest trap with writing Duels (the first being the godly topdeck): A character can win, but doesn't do that one play that enables the win, for no logical reason. Usually (in RPs and fics), it's because the writer was being too flexible with the cards a character has in hand/facedown and thus the game-winning combination should have been performed a turn+ earlier.

Again with IV's personality, there was no reason to make such a severe shift. My conclusion is that the writers want to portray the Tron family as sympathetic. III and V both have kinder personalities, with hidden darkness/hatred, as III demonstrated before and during his Duel with Yuma. He's heartbroken about his family and wants to do whatever necessary to protect them. V was close to their father, and was the first to learn of the betrayal by Dr. Faker.

IV...we still doesn't know his motivations or emotions that well. He shifts emotions a lot, and is mildly insane. But what exactly is his goal? I guess in a way, he's jealous of how III and V are favored over him, which is why he rebels or lashes out at those two whenever possible (III's flashback adds credibility to the jealousy thing, because of how III got Aztec Mask Golem). He wants approval. But that doesn't add up to his sadism very well, nor why he seems to have lost that sadism when Shark beat him.

And IV has more than once emphasized how his actions (during tag duel) were justified because of the suffering they endured. But what suffering has IV endured? What suffering has III endured? We know III has some deep sadness about the state of his family, as he revealed to Yuma before going crazy, but what exactly happened? V's flashback shows that he sent III and IV to live elsewhere while he stayed near Dr. Faker up until discovering the betrayal.

Maybe we'll find out more when Tron is next featured, or when Dr. Faker shows up.

I'm also puzzled why III and IV seem convinced that defeating Dr. Faker will change Tron back to normal. Maybe that's a theme with Zexal that revenge is an awful goal. Why would Dr. Faker being defeated/killed undo the damage he's already done? In most series, defeating the antagonist only works because the outcome is either wagered via Shadow Duels or the damage was inflicted by a Duel/plot card (like the Earthbound Gods).

Which reminds me of Tron's comment in the episode.

He pretty much confirmed my theory that he got sent to the Barian World, when he told Astral that his powers came from there, and Astral only had Astral World powers. But then Astral made a challenge for a Duel, which Tron declined. Um...I know Yugioh solves everything via Duels, but what exactly is the thought process here?

Yuma: Astral, can you get rid of these chains? They're really uncomfortable.
Tron: Nope, I'm using powers that Astral has no power over.
Astral: Okay. Then I want to Duel you.
Me: ...why?

But I suppose I shouldn't think about that too much. Astral did state Dueling is a way of life for him, and in fact means life or death. Plus the whole Numbers thing, since Tron definitely has at least 1 Number.

But then Shark wanted to Duel Tron immediately after his Duel with IV, which Tron again declined, but why would Dueling Tron mean anything? Shark vs IV at least made sense because part of IV's original challenge to Shark was to prove that IV being given then Duel Champion title (due to the disqualification) was wrong and that Shark was better than him.

[Merci]

For your information, guys, it had already been implied that IV was actually a kind person. Well, not implied exactly, but did anyone remember the fire scene? IV was shielding someone - someone who seemed more like a girl than III - shielding her from flames. Possibly the fire scene is connected to Shark's sister and the accident, and even IV's scar. Maybe he really is a kind person at heart, but it's just filled with so much hatred and darkness that he tends to focus on only revenge.

Also, he could've taunted Shark about his sister simply so that he can anger him. He didn't know about Tron's plans, but he trusted him and he knew his purpose was to get on Shark's bad side. His loss against Yuma and Kaito didn't mean anything, but after Tron's betrayal he could've felt hurt. He trusted Tron, his father, and was only following Tron's orders -to be a jerk probably-, so after losing against Shark, his mind could have cleared after the heat of the duel and realized that he didn't need to follow Tron's orders.

Perhaps not even V was aware of them, thinking that IV had naturally changed into this way.

*personally an Accidentshipper*

[Dr. Cakey]

No, IV's characterization is just bulls***. IV's motivation has always been to hurt people. That's why he duels. Oh, and he has a god complex (there's a reason it's called Heaven's Strings). If we were in the half of Zexal that's cool and well thought-out, this would probably be a coping mechanism to convince himself he has control over his life. But now he's [i]sad[/i]
that he f***ed over Shark's life and nearly killed his sister. Awwwwww...

I mean, theoretically, it could be the influence of the crest/Tron's orders bla bla bla (and Tron did order IV do all that, because apparently he's been planning to use Shark for several years now, which is kind of stupid), but we've had no prior reason to believe that. I mean, his duel with [s]Bonk[/s] [s]Bronk[/s] Tetsu and that other guy didn't have anything to do with Shark. Shark's a dick rival character - he doesn't care if IV puts a couple of guys' Xyz Monsters through the Hell Buzz-Saw Grinder from Hell. IV just did that cause he's a dick.

And hey...IV didn't have a 1-10 Number...because Tron stole No. 8, even though it should be No. 4 and who cares. It could at least have been 97 or 98. Whatever.

[Merci]

IV did that because he's pouring all his frustration and anger against Dr. Faker into battles. Ripping apart monsters with his own seems to be the best way to do it. And does anyone seriously care about the number of a Number? Oh, and you sure it's been years? When was that stated?

He duels sadistically because he hates Dr. Faker, and torturing other people and imagining they're him is the best way to do it. I doubt he actually likes hurting people themselves - especially outside of duels. During duels, he goes berserk, but outside of them it's easier for him to stay cool.

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

[quote name='Merciful Idiot' timestamp='1339256430' post='5954369']
IV did that because he's pouring all his frustration and anger against Dr. Faker into battles. Ripping apart monsters with his own seems to be the best way to do it. And does anyone seriously care about the number of a Number? Oh, and you sure it's been years? When was that stated?

He duels sadistically because he hates Dr. Faker, and torturing other people and imagining they're him is the best way to do it. I doubt he actually likes hurting people themselves - especially outside of duels. During duels, he goes berserk, but outside of them it's easier for him to stay cool.
[/quote]

Tron told Shark that he's been planning to make him his pawn since the Nationals x number of years ago, and IV influenced him in that tournament to begin his descent into anger and darkness. Or some needlessly complicated crap like that.

And its cool that Numbers have hidden meanings and aren't just randomly plonked out to any old thing.

Coping mechanism and fantasising about putting Faker through Giant Killer's buzzsaw is an argument. But IV has acted like a sadistic dick even around his own brothers (again can and has been argued that this is the 'I'm the outcast of the group and you two get special treatment from daddy waa waa waa'). That we're even having these discussions about IV's character is just a letdown for me. Seriously, would it kill Konami just to have one of the brothers as a permanently bad egg who remains a dick and not go all goody goody on defeat? Just one?

[Merci]

[quote name='Majestic Star Bahamut' timestamp='1339258355' post='5954386']
Tron told Shark that he's been planning to make him his pawn since the Nationals x number of years ago, and IV influenced him in that tournament to begin his descent into anger and darkness. Or some needlessly complicated crap like that.

And its cool that Numbers have hidden meanings and aren't just randomly plonked out to any old thing.

Coping mechanism and fantasising about putting Faker through Giant Killer's buzzsaw is an argument. But IV has acted like a sadistic dick even around his own brothers (again can and has been argued that this is the 'I'm the outcast of the group and you two get special treatment from daddy waa waa waa'). That we're even having these discussions about IV's character is just a letdown for me. Seriously, would it kill Konami just to have one of the brothers as a permanently bad egg who remains a dick and not go all goody goody on defeat? Just one?
[/quote]

Well, the Tron Family was supposed to be a sympathetic one. And I actually like IV and his apparent unstable bipolar personality. Sort of. I hope we'll get more answers later.

Also, I acknowledge that Number numbers are cool but unless it's a significant number, it's not really important, is it?

[Brinolovania]

This seems to be like what ZeXal is doing a lot. Let's see:

At first: Meh...not great...
Then: Oh hey, this is actually pretty good
Then: OMG THIS IS ACTUALLY AMAZING
Then (in WDC): ...OK, going downhill
Then: (Tron Bros doing stuff): It's good again!
Then: (WDC finals): Wow...this is still actually good...is this even Yugio-
Now: Oh f***, it is.

It was doing so well, and then this episode destroyed it...

[Jord200]

My predictions.....

IV will be dueling again. He still has his Numbers. Against who, I don't know. However, IV has no crest. If he were to summon them, what would be stopping 15, 40, and 88 from possessing him and causing him to become evil again or soemthing?
Even if Tron does lose, which I hope he doesn't, remember, this is Yugioh, The hero almost ALWAYS beats a Big Bad. Yuma vs Tron is going to happen. Remember how Joey came SECONDS away from beating Marik?
V may duel again, just because they built him up so much, and he only dueled once.

[~British Soul~]

i also think IV will duel again as he still has his Numbers, or maybe he'll lose his Numbers off-screen which is a possibility.

also i can't believe i noticed this until now (which proves i wasn't watching episode 1 properly)
[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120610011660/yugioh/images/3/32/DarkTunerNightmareHand-JP-Anime-ZX-NC.png[/img]

...is that Dark Tuner Nightmare Hand?

[Merci]

You just noticed? Everyone's known since like Episode 1

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

[quote name='Pacmanexus' timestamp='1339295797' post='5954677']
This seems to be like what ZeXal is doing a lot. Let's see:

At first: Meh...not great...
Then: Oh hey, this is actually pretty good
Then: OMG THIS IS ACTUALLY AMAZING
Then (in WDC): ...OK, going downhill
Then: (Tron Bros doing stuff): It's good again!
Then: (WDC finals): Wow...this is still actually good...is this even Yugio-
Now: Oh f***, it is.

It was doing so well, and then this episode destroyed it...
[/quote]

Hold on to this shiny beacon of hope...

[b]"The Scheme of a Horrifying Darkness! Tron's True Form Is Revealed!?"[/b] is the sixty-third episode of the [i][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Yu-Gi-Oh%21_ZEXAL"]Yu-Gi-Oh! ZEXAL[/url][/i] anime.

In the 2nd Round of the Semi-Finals, the Duel between [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Kite"]Kite[/url] and [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Tron"]Tron[/url] gets underway. Tron's heart, filled with revenge towards [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Faker"]Dr. Faker[/url], decides to attacks Faker's son, Kite. Kite summons "[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Galaxy-Eyes_Photon_Dragon"]Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon[/url]" from the get go to begin an attack on Tron. However, Tron's ominous and eerie smile doesn't stop for even a second. Tron unleashes a despicable and underhanded strategy worthy of "Revenge", by not going after just Kite, but worms its way all the way back to Kite's brother, [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Hart"]Hart[/url]...!

I recently thought it would be cool if Shark beats Yuma (which is... possible... Maybe...), Tron beats Kaito (which most of us expect but have a little fear of Yusei-ism), and Tron beats Shark in the final.

That way Yuma isn't thumped as lead protagonist because we already have him and Shark at 1-1/2-1 Shark anyway, and he can go into a match with Tron with him having defeated the two best duelists in the series.

Or Tron to beat Kaito, Yuma in the final (who is protected by III's crest from losing his mind/Numbers) and Tron gets his ass handed to him by Faker. That would also be fine by me.

[~British Soul~]

[quote name='Merciful Idiot' timestamp='1339323612' post='5954797']
You just noticed? Everyone's known since like Episode 1
[/quote]
like i said, it proves i wasn't paying attention much

imho the Tron/Kaito duel could go either way, although i do believe Yuma will beat Shark. Though it would be interesting to see Faker duel

[evilfusion]

Shark won't defeat Yuma. Shark has Numbers, meaning that Astral's life is on the line in their Duel. Astral even chastised Yuma for essentially throwing the Duel with Shark before the III vs Yuma episodes, because Shark had a Number. The previous Duels that Yuma lost were always against an opponent who didnt have a Number, such as Shark in episode 10.

Kaito will probably lose to Tron because Tron is the main antagonist, and while I'm left wondering whether Kaito vs Yuma will ever happen as it's been built up since the end of Season 1, it'd feel absurdly anti-climactic to have Kaito vs Yuma in the finals. It'd make perfect sense considering the characters, but it'd feel stupid from a writing standpoint.

The world must ALWAYS depend upon the final match of a tournament, if a tournament is involved at all. Observe:

- Yugi vs Pegasus. Granted, this Duel was technically post-tournament (the winner of the tournament has the right to Duel Pegasus), but only after winning were tournament prizes given.

-Yugi vs Marik. The winner of the Battle City tournament would have all 3 God cards, and only by beating Marik would Ra be removed from him. Similarly, beating Kaiba in the semi-finals would get one of the God cards.

-GX avoided this. The fate of the world plots never involved tournaments, except Season 2, but both the villain and the protagonist did not settle things in a tourney Duel, but elsewhere.

-5Ds. The Dark Signer arc didn't use a tournament, per se, but in the WRGP, the Infinity Trio were the final match.

So in Zexal, there are two options.

- Tron beats Kaito and duels Yuma in the finals. Victory will probably give Tron almost all the Numbers, and beating Tron has NO GUARANTEE that Yuma will get all his Numbers, because of the crest.

Now, I keep mentioning the Tron family's crests because it was explicitly shown that III and IV were immune to Photon Hand and Astral due to the crests. However, III and V left their Numbers behind when they lost, and in III's case, it appeared that his crest was lost/destroyed after the Duel. V's didnt disappear until he went to III's room afterwards. IV lost his when he lost to Shark.

The question I have is WHY. I have 2 theories with that.

1) Tron has the crests 'programmed' to disappear once the character's role is over. III's role ended with his defeat to Yuma, and he went into a semi-coma shortly afterwards. V's role ended when he lost to Kaito, and he too went into a slight coma. IV's role was explicitly to make Shark fall into darkness and awaken Number C32. After losing, his role too, was over.

2) The crests are somehow "bonded" to their Numbers. III and IV lost their crests pretty much at the exact moment when their most powerful Number was destroyed (Number 6 and Number 88, respectively). V lost his shortly after Number 9 was destroyed. In III and IV's case, they had to use their crest's power when Summoning those Numbers.

Whether Tron's crest has any such limitations, however, is unknown. His crest appears to be the original one of the four, and he also has some of Haruto's power. Obviously, more of Tron's power will likely be revealed during his match with Kaito.

Alternate outcome:

B ) Kaito beats Tron. Considering it's Tron, it seems very unlikely that Kaito will manage to Photon Hand him. This leaves Tron's character available to continue his plan, but there's way too many issues with that. Tron's plan had something to do with Dr. Faker. Defeating his son would likely be one huge step in that plan. If Shark loses to Yuma, and he loses to Kaito, there's absolutely nowhere to go with that goal. We don't even know exactly what he plans to do with all the Numbers if he could manage to collect them all. While IV didn't explicitly lose his Numbers in this episode, there's still the chance that Tron has all the remaining Numbers the family possesses.

And the final match then would be Kaito vs Yuma, which is fantastic in terms of an ultimate showdown with huge stakes to each of them...I just dont know how the plot would advance from there.

[Legend Zero]

I'm still under the impression that Tron isn't their father. His Numbers being able to steal the 'identity' of another just leads me to think Tron stole everything from Byron Archlight (sp?). Which, makes Tron a Barian (w/e that world is called).

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1339340300' post='5954883']
Shark won't defeat Yuma. Shark has Numbers, meaning that Astral's life is on the line in their Duel. Astral even chastised Yuma for essentially throwing the Duel with Shark before the III vs Yuma episodes, because Shark had a Number. The previous Duels that Yuma lost were always against an opponent who didnt have a Number, such as Shark in episode 10.[/quote]

Lack of foresight by writers has totally f***ed themselves over now huh?

I thought Yuma was supposed to have absorbed III's crest as a potential out to 'can never lose a duel involving Numbers'.

[quote]
Kaito will probably lose to Tron because Tron is the main antagonist, and while I'm left wondering whether Kaito vs Yuma will ever happen as it's been built up since the end of Season 1, it'd feel absurdly anti-climactic to have Kaito vs Yuma in the finals. It'd make perfect sense considering the characters, but it'd feel stupid from a writing standpoint.[/quote]

You forget, this is YGO. Don't make me mention some previous favourite episodes of yours (albiet not as story crucial ones)...

Thankfully your points about tournament finals history holds true.

Kaito vs Yuma doesn't need to happen now. Not until the dust on everything else involving Faker and Tron is settled.

[Jord200]

I was under the impression the Tron Family had only 5 Numbers left. They had at least 9. Dyson Sphere, Machu Mach, Atlanthal, and Shark Drake were given away. IV has Giant Killer, Heaven's Strings, and Destiny Leo. Tron has Genome Heriter. Thats 8 Numbers. Since the brothers are all KOed, the ninth is probably Tron's second Number. I predict it will either be in the 90s or be 5. As for the Numbers overall.....

Yuma has 14.
Kaito has 15. 10 of which we haven't seen.
Tron has at least 2.
IV has 3.
Shark has 1.

Thats 33 total. About 1/3 of all of the Numbers. Unless IV and Kaito were literally working non-stop and hunting internationally prior to the WDC, I doubt the other 67 Numbers are in the possession of Kaito or the Trons. As for Kaito, if he were to lose, wouldn't there only be 1 way for his Numbers to be taken? Whats more, I kind of think Tron doesn't care much about the Numbers, otherwise he probably would have made a bigger deal about losing 3 of them. Shark Drake doesn't count since Tron wanted III to give it to Shark. Does he plan to use them against Dr. Faker? Or something else?

[Northern Sage]

[url="http://www.animeavenue.net/yu-gi-oh-zexal-episode-59/"]http://www.animeaven...xal-episode-59/[/url]
Raw is up.
(Split into 2 parts)
Yuma somehow got down to 100 Life Points before this duel...

[~British Soul~]

the one thing i want to know is how did Gauche get to 4000 LP, he must've landed on a couple of spell points since he had 2000 LP last time

[Northern Sage]

[quote name='~Dark Soul~' timestamp='1339493009' post='5955818']
the one thing i want to know is how did Gauche get to 4000 LP, he must've landed on a couple of spell points since he had 2000 LP last time
[/quote]
Not necessarily more than one or two. He might have encountered another one of those coin toss things I can't be bothered to look up the name for.
But the more mind-boggling thing here is: Yuma seemingly only hit Spell/Trap Points when he was going towards his own match. Does that mean there is a special "Spectator" path through, set up specifically for the last duelist? Was Yuma just lucky during the first three? Was this a conscious choice, a set-up or random selection?

[~British Soul~]

[quote name='∂materasu' timestamp='1339499381' post='5955840']
Not necessarily more than one or two. He might have encountered another one of those coin toss things I can't be bothered to look up the name for.
[/quote]
if you remember, Yuma did lead Gauche to a trap point with "The Paths of Destiny" and then sped off leaving him behind, he might hit that point. i guess we'll never know

Actually i just remembered, Gauche had 500 LP left when we last saw him, Yuma had 2000 LP, and now Yuma only had 100 LP left after hitting Cemetary Bomb before his match with Gauche

[evilfusion]

They're not even trying to make sense of the competitors' LP anymore.

Tron vs Droite was 4000 vs 8000. We knew Droite had focused heavily on regaining her LP specifically to Duel Tron with a huge LP advantage. Tron avoided opponents and Traps until 3 of them ganged up on him at once and he destroyed them in one blow.

Kaito vs V was 4000 vs 4000. This makes very LITTLE sense. V had 5000 LP, then Yuma inflicted 400 with an effect (to V's rage), and V left with 4600. Since we were explicitly informed that LP carries over to the 1 v 1 Duel, we're left wondering how he took 600 extra Damage. Players didnt seem to try to damage one another between rounds, Droite threatening Kaito with a Spell prior to her Duel with Tron being the only known exception.

Shark vs IV was 4000 vs 4000. This is passable, but that means neither Shark nor IV took any damage, despite defeating at least 2 other WDC competitors personally.

Yuma vs Gauche was 100 vs 4000. Okay, so Yuma has hit tons of Trap points (a running "gag" that wasn't funny past the third time), but last we saw Gauche, he had 2500 LP (he obviously wasn't disqualified so he must have succeeded with the Paths of Destiny toss). But how'd he get an even 1500 more LP?

Episode was okay. I wasn't expecting much anyway. Yuma vs Gauche was the least "exciting" WDC final Duel, and it's obvious that everyone, including the writers, knew that. Tron vs Droite would showcase Tron's character, Deck, and Number. Kaito vs V would give exposition and reveal Number 9, plus more of Kaito dueling. IV vs Shark was a huge plot-built Duel, showcasing another Number plus Number C32, plus the plot involving Tron.

Gauche has no Numbers. He has no plot relevence beyond a rivalry with Yuma that in itself isnt relevent. It's pretty much meant to be a breather Duel for the audience. 54-58 were all extremely relevent to the plot and characters, and episode 59 is the break. Episode 60 has Dr. Faker, so it's probably going to be important somehow.

[Jord200]

Is it bad that I thought Yuma's duel was more entertaining that Kaito's duel?

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

Just watched the ep in hope of borrowing some of Yuma's Kattobingu.

Duel was very predicatble. Called most of Yuma's cards before he used them (Battle Break, Double Up Chance, etc), as well as Gauche's card without looking at them in TCG in advance. DUChance well we all probably called that, but always nice to see it again (except he's now beaten Gauche the same way twice, but eh).

Not sure the logic of duelling on coasters, but eh, guess its something different for the crowd.

Gauche giving Yuma Excalibur was cool, as long as it wasn't just a gesture and he actually uses it.

Very fillerish duel, but its passed now. Hoping for intriguing plot advancement next week.

[Brinolovania]

So Gauche's logic is that Yuma is bad for doing good moves like Gagaga Gunman to do damage while avoiding Canyon's effect? OK.

And is Gauche a freaking cannibal? He's obsessed with guts...

[Bahamut - Envoy of the End]

Things I forgot to mention first post: Was Gauche's voice different for anyone else? I think the version I watched might have the speed cranked up a bit which may have been a cause, but not to that degree.

Also, Gauche and Droite have been together since very young age (brother and sister or orphaned friends?) and were taken in by Mr Heartland at a young age. Well that sort of justifies why supposedly teenagers are administrating the tournament.

Think Yuma might pay if Gauche finds out he knew about Droite and didn't tell him, given his obvious attachment either as his sister or someone he cares about very deeply (because he must be finding out next episode. Surely we're going to see Droite in her mind-hacked state).