Dub Vs. Sub Discussion

[Tentacruel]

Discuss anything related to the above that does not include 4kids or Bakugan.


Also, please apply logic to any statements. For instance, the claim that Anime dubs change (the meaning of) the dialogue or remove violence is a lie. The claim that they try to "westernize" it is non-factual.

Discuss?

[Azuh]

Dubbing is better than remaking, is it not?

[Sunshine Jesse]

Dubs are usually better by default if they don't censor too much of it or ruin the scripts.

at least imo

[burnpsy]

[quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1301618518' post='5103490']
Dubs are usually better by default if they don't censor too much of it or ruin the scripts.

at least imo
[/quote]

This. Also, dubs can be bad if the pull Mad Dog from GX-level bad voice actor picks.

[Dr. Cakey]

Subs are better because I said so.

[/prologic]

Okay, let's do this. Just as energy is lost each time it changes states, meaning is lost each time a story changes states. To be fair, more is usually lost from the switch from manga to anime than from original to dub, but what is, is.

4Kids is the worst offender of the larger dubbing companies, but I can't talk about it, apparently. Viz's problem is that it doesn't have the slightest bit of competence in the area of translation. Notice how they panic whenever kanji is involved (and then their manga...*shivers*). Funimation's solid, Bandai is a bit better, from what little I've seen.

The subs have some significant advantages, setting aside quality on either side. First, text. You can stretch out text much more than you can spoken dialogue, so a given overlong line of the same length will seem less clunky when subbed. Second, it's easier to lip sync. Third, the voicing process (for 4Kids at least, and I'm sure it's the same with others) makes it very difficult to put your line in context of those around it. Fourth, Japanese is a gorgeous language - it's like trying to compete with French. Not gonna happen. Fifth, Gratuitous Engrish is awesome.

Then, I think a lot of Japanese VAs are better (and hammier) than American ones. They also voice a lot more male characters with women which, strange as it might sound, works very well.

The dubs have two overwhelming advantages, though: first, 99% of the American population is illiterate, and so cannot read subs. Second, other languages confuse and scare them, and make them wonder why America has not yet taken over the entire world and forced subject populations to switch to English and recite the pledge of allegiance every day.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Dr. Cakey' timestamp='1301620739' post='5103603']
Subs are better because I said so.

[/prologic]

Okay, let's do this. Just as energy is lost each time it changes states, meaning is lost each time a story changes states. To be fair, more is usually lost from the switch from manga to anime than from original to dub, but what is, is.

4Kids is the worst offender of the larger dubbing companies, but I can't talk about it, apparently. Viz's problem is that it doesn't have the slightest bit of competence in the area of translation. Notice how they panic whenever kanji is involved (and then their manga...*shivers*). Funimation's solid, Bandai is a bit better, from what little I've seen.

The subs have some significant advantages, setting aside quality on either side. First, text. You can stretch out text much more than you can spoken dialogue, so a given overlong line of the same length will seem less clunky when subbed. Second, it's easier to lip sync. Third, the voicing process (for 4Kids at least, and I'm sure it's the same with others) makes it very difficult to put your line in context of those around it. Fourth, Japanese is a gorgeous language - it's like trying to compete with French. Not gonna happen. Fifth, Gratuitous Engrish is awesome.

Then, I think a lot of Japanese VAs are better (and hammier) than American ones. They also voice a lot more male characters with women which, strange as it might sound, works very well.

The dubs have two overwhelming advantages, though: first, 99% of the American population is illiterate, and so cannot read subs. Second, other languages confuse and scare them, and make them wonder why America has not yet taken over the entire world and forced subject populations to switch to English and recite the pledge of allegiance every day.
[/quote]
[s]Weeaboo >.>[/s]

Also, your opinion on Japanese audio doesn't really mean much unless you speak the language.

[Cin]

Lol Dr. Cakey. If a dub can maintain as much of the original as possible without biting too much into the series in terms of characters personalities and plot concepts, then it's alright. The only dub bar Pokemon I own is Nightwalker and that was done reasonably well.

[DSS]

Dubs feel fake and don't bring out the true emotion that the character displays
that's why i consider subs better

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='DSS' timestamp='1301675088' post='5104758']
Dubs feel fake and don't bring out the true emotion that the character displays
that's why i consider subs better
[/quote]
I disagree, I find that I can better understand something when I can understand them.

[Cin]

What about if you read subs? I wonder if actually the dub is a VERY waterdown from the manga. (I was reading the season 0 of YGO, that's watered down, Kaiba had a thing for electrocution and even employed a mass murderer known as the Chopman in the manga (They used Honda's nephew to lure one of them in, Jonouchi was hand cuffed to the Chopman and each had to pick a weapon, Jonouchi won using a candle to unlock the handcuff and used Chopman to open the door). In the anime there was no electrocution the lazer game was very safe, and Blood was machine rather than worrying about a guillotine.). So I prefer Sub because its alot closer to how the Series was originally percieved. (Even if they had to take out for example Pegasus dying of Blood lose after his milllenium eye was gorged out (that's why R can never become Anime, because it goes on the Manga storyline of Pegasus' death and in the Anime he wasn't killed), or the scene where Yami No Bakura stabbed himself to seal the deal (they kept the blood stain)).

Not always watered down, but you understand what I mean.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Yin' timestamp='1301734960' post='5107085']
What about if you read subs? I wonder if actually the dub is a VERY waterdown from the manga. (I was reading the season 0 of YGO, that's watered down, Kaiba had a thing for electrocution and even employed a mass murderer known as the Chopman in the manga (They used Honda's nephew to lure one of them in, Jonouchi was hand cuffed to the Chopman and each had to pick a weapon, Jonouchi won using a candle to unlock the handcuff and used Chopman to open the door). In the anime there was no electrocution the lazer game was very safe, and Blood was machine rather than worrying about a guillotine.). So I prefer Sub because its alot closer to how the Series was originally percieved. (Even if they had to take out for example Pegasus dying of Blood lose after his milllenium eye was gorged out (that's why R can never become Anime, because it goes on the Manga storyline of Pegasus' death and in the Anime he wasn't killed), or the scene where Yami No Bakura stabbed himself to seal the deal (they kept the blood stain)).

Not always watered down, but you understand what I mean.
[/quote]
Wait, but that has nothing to do with dub or sub, that's just the anime censoring stuff. Naruto did the same thing, even in the Japanese version.

I don't know if they "water it down," but they do try to write the script in a way people would actually speak in English, as opposed to a literal translation, if that's what you mean.

[Coffee Black]

I guess I'm kinda lazy and enjoy watching dub anime more. Some anime does not translate too well into English, and so the subs may be kinda confusing for an American viewer. Assuming that the dubbing company is sensible, they use dialogue more suitable for an American audience.
(small note: I've seen close to 500 episodes of One Piece subbed, so I have nothing against either dub or sub)

[unbreakerable]

i think that subed versions look and sound more asome

[burnpsy]

People are acting as if there's a blanket rule here. I'd like to present a counter argument.

The second Negima! anime, "Negima!?", was actually made significantly better for the dub. References people can actually understand, a properly translated opening, some scenes were animated differently for more impact, etc. Not to mention that the script was the same as the Japanese version except for wherever something needed to be localized, I can verify that since I watched both the dub and sub of it for comparison purposes.

[Cin]

It really depends a lot on who does the subbing. The official subs sometimes tend to go via Chinese, so don't tend to be as accurate as for example a fansub who try to go directly from Japanese to English.

[Resident Fascist]

[acronym='If I Remember Correctly']iirc[/acronym], they included more in the Dubbed version of DBZ than the sub. Not to mention, Chris Sabat does a better voice job than the jp voice actors in my opinion. So, it depends on the anime.

[Shradow]

It all depends on the anime, and also what character, and what part you're looking at. Take TTGL for example.

I felt Katsuyuki Konishi's Kamina was a lot more hot blooded, but Kyle Herbert's Kamina felt more like the big brother side of him. Two different ways to do a character, and both were great.

Now, in one point I have to give Dub the thumbs up. During one of Simon's epic speeches, in the Sub, it felt rushed and wasn't as slow and dramatic like they did in the Dub. It was made better in the movie, where it was slower and dramatic as well.

I do argue with myself over my favorite character's voice, Lordgenome. Narushi Ikeda's Lordgenome was really awesome in about every way. But his English voice is Jamieson Price. So indecisive...

Simply put, I say they're even.

However, anything with Norio Wakamoto instantly makes the Sub better than the Dub.