Masochistic Joker Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Zetsubou Black' timestamp='1301011517' post='5094604'] Matthew 22:21 says give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's =/ That has nothing to do with this. [b]Also, BANNING open prayer in school is illegal.[/b] [/quote] Schools are state funded therefore state therefore apart of the government. Caesar = government. Also the banning open prayer. I'll have the court ruling posted by tomorrow night to disprove the bolded statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 That makes no sense. The schools are state funded, yes, but they are not GIVING anything to anyone. There is nothing wrong with the poster. It says "In God we trust". Does it say WHICH deity? 'Cause Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and many more worship deities. It offends you? Get over it. It's a historical motto, as Mikhail said, and it has lost almost all religious meaning. It is a slogan. It is illegal to ban OPEN (Not school sanctioned) prayer. It is freedom of religion. So, if I walk into school tomorrow, and kneel in the middle of the lunch room, and pray, I'm wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masochistic Joker Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Zetsubou Black' timestamp='1301012416' post='5094664'] That makes no sense. The schools are state funded, yes, but they are not GIVING anything to anyone. There is nothing wrong with the poster. It says "In God we trust". Does it say WHICH deity? 'Cause Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, and many more worship deities. [b]When God is capitalized it refers to Christianity.[/b] [b]It offends you?[/b] Get over it. It's a historical motto, as Mikhail said, and it has lost almost all religious meaning. It is a slogan. It is illegal to ban OPEN (Not school sanctioned) prayer. It is freedom of religion. [b]Open=school sanctioned Closed: church/bible study sanctioned[/b] So, if I walk into school tomorrow, and kneel in the middle of the lunch room, and pray, I'm wrong? [/quote] B: read what i've typed all the way before responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Really, now? Judaism worships God. Allah is God, too. Furthermore, it is, as said, a SLOGAN. People are offended by EVERYTHING modern day. To quote a friend, "People just want to be mad about something". For open, fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Masochistic Joker' timestamp='1301011390' post='5094597'] Actually there is a Judicial court ruling on this as well. [b]Open prayers and such aren't allowed until after hours[/b]. I could probably find the ruling and it doesn't offend me. [i]Purely the fact that Tea Party Republicans claim to know the bible when they didn't bother to read Matthew 22:21[/i] much like the guy above that is wondering what that verse has to do with this. [/quote] Bolded is contradictory to the constitution. You can't restrict religion unless it directly breaks other laws, and that doesn't. Italicized on the other hand, is 100% true, the Tea Party isn't too smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 To be honest, guys, I never knew it was illegal to post "In God we trust" in schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Darkplant' timestamp='1301014401' post='5094742'] To be honest, guys, I never knew it was illegal to post "In God we trust" in schools. [/quote] Technically, it isn't. At least, not according to the US's constitution. But, people just LOVE to get offended =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARKPLANT RISING Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Zetsubou Black' timestamp='1301014469' post='5094746']But, people just LOVE to get offended =/ [/quote] Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frunk Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Mikhail Tal' timestamp='1300984852' post='5093530'] It must be noted that practically no one has been killed in the name of Atheism or Anti-Theism, though millions have gone to their graves in the name of God. Think of the massacres and gang-rapes of the Old Testament, the Crusades, the Evangelicals who murder abortion doctors and bomb clinics. Think of the countless numbers of children who have been molested and raped by Catholic priests. Think of the Salem Witch Trials, the innocent old women who were scapegoated. Stalin was an atheist, but he didn't kill forty million of his countrymen in the name of atheism. He did it for power. The crusaders killed in the name of God, and died for a non-existent entity filled with lies and false hope. [/quote] That's very naive. Throughout much of the middle ages, the time of the crusades, the Inquisition and countless other events involving Catholics killing others, were certainly not always carried out in blind fervency. Certainly, there weren't many atheists at the time, but to think that everyone from king to peasant wouldn't exploit religion for their own gain is wrong. The crusades, indeed, were vehemently pressured onto the Catholic kingdoms of the time, but the military and peasantry only took up the cause "in the name of Christ" knowing riches were to be had. They weren't totally greed-driven. Surely some of them thought God wanted them to kill the millions of Eastern Christians, Muslims and Pagans along the way to their targets, and any treasure would be their divine reward. Take that out of the equation and you would see the number willing to partake the pilgrimage decrease dramatically. As for Catholic priests, you honestly think those of them who are paedophiles rape and molest children in the name of God? They do it because they are paedophiles, not because they are Catholic. Anyone who can bring his or herself to commit such a heinous act is greedy to an extreme level. The cloth just gives priests (and it must be noted that it is actually a minority of the priesthood) an excuse. The Salem Witch Trials meanwhile was scapegoating for certain people's own gain. They allowed hysteria to spread and the fear of Satan drove the executioners to do what they did. It was not the will or the fault of God if he exists, it was the fault of greed. God hasn't killed millions, greed has. God is the justification of the greedy. The great enabler. For the record, I am an atheist. I acknowledge the possibility of the God of the Bible and essentially all other religions, but I'm not so insecure of what people think of my stance to slap "agnostic" or some other wishy-washy prefix to my atheism to attempt to soften it irrespective of whether or not I am in fact, by definition, agnostic. All agnosticism does is create a ridiculous schism between atheists, which doesn't help in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1300978563' post='5093414'] So we can't restrict the ways you can express how you're athiest, but you can restrict how we show we're Christian? Expain please. [/quote] You're not "showing" it, you're "shoving" it. I don't shove my beliefs down your throat; I kindly ask that you not do the same to me. Requiring or including officially religious slogans and sayings in schools is a direct "attack" towards my beliefs. I'm fine with you praying on your own time or taking some religious class or whatever for credit, these DO exist, just don't make ME take it or take time out of MY day for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Wahrheit' timestamp='1301025876' post='5095188'] You're not "showing" it, you're "shoving" it. I don't shove my beliefs down your throat; I kindly ask that you not do the same to me. Requiring or including officially religious slogans and sayings in schools is a direct "attack" towards my beliefs. I'm fine with you praying on your own time or taking some religious class or whatever for credit, these DO exist, just don't make ME take it or take time out of MY day for it. [/quote] Putting "In God we Trust" up on a wall is shoving our religeon on you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1301027126' post='5095209'] Putting "In God we Trust" up on a wall is shoving our religeon on you? [/quote] Absolutely. Would you like me to put up "God is a lie, you're wasting your life" on school walls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Wahrheit' timestamp='1301027355' post='5095211'] Absolutely. Would you like me to put up "God is a lie, you're wasting your life" on school walls? [/quote] I wouldn't like it, no. But I wouldn't protest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessHero Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [spoiler= ][IMG]http://i54.tinypic.com/2e4xc05.jpg[/IMG][/spoiler] Next there will be some big thing about posting posters about sexualtiy even though as people have already stated, the poster in question doesn't rly have any religious meaning anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1301027431' post='5095212'] I wouldn't like it, no. But I wouldn't protest it. [/quote] Then you're dumb. You shouldn't ever let someone infringe your rights and say nothing about it. Let me quote a famous poem because that's what YCM does. [quote=Martin Niemoller]First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me.[/quote] also [quote=Anonymous]The man to blame is the one who doesn't speak.[/quote] I could go back and find some of my old posts about how you shouldn't be oppressed from freedom of speech, how if you don't defend your rights you'll lose them, and stuff like that, but I really don't want to take the time out of my day because every time I take a break to write a post like this it seems like 25 new things to fix pop up. Bleh. Any questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Wahrheit' timestamp='1301037043' post='5095303'] Then you're dumb. You shouldn't ever let someone infringe your rights and say nothing about it. [/quote] Freedom of speech. I've seen billboards that state that Christianity is a myth and I don't complain. You can put whatever you want on a wall. However, if you still choose to complain about this s***, understand that we are clearly being the more tolerant party, which is ironic when the religious are often stereotyped as being very intolerant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Wahrheit' timestamp='1301037043' post='5095303'] Then you're dumb. You shouldn't ever let someone infringe your rights and say nothing about it. [/quote] I just don't see how you putting up a poster saying something I don't like is infringing my rights. The only thing it is forcing me to do is read it every time I pass by, is that really something for me to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='ADHD-Guitar' timestamp='1301059928' post='5095459'] Freedom of speech. I've seen billboards that state that Christianity is a myth and I don't complain. You can put whatever you want on a wall. However, if you still choose to complain about this s***, understand that we are clearly being the more tolerant party, which is ironic when the religious are often stereotyped as being very intolerant. [/quote] [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1301060154' post='5095461'] I just don't see how you putting up a poster saying something I don't like is infringing my rights. The only thing it is forcing me to do is read it every time I pass by, is that really something for me to complain about. [/quote] The bill of rights also contains a section under freedom of speech called "Separation of Church and State". As long as schools are a State (see: government) institution, ANY religious association whatsoever or imposing/supporting officially of any given belief system is not only a direct violation of your writes but a direct violation of the Constitution of the United States of America. It's not about who's more "tolerant" it's about who's willing to stand up for what is good, fair, and right. I could stand back all day long letting you do whatever you want and call myself "tolerant" playing the Martyr card but it wouldn't do me any good because you'd still get what you wanted and by the time it really mattered I'd be SOL. Moderate religious are generally very "tolerant", actually. They just want a family with proper morals and a place they can take their kids once a week to learn how to behave in society on a grander scale. The intolerance you're describing are the far-right dingbats who tote their bibles and spit their passages like they're some perfect guide to how everything should be forever. Following the advice of a book as the only guidance in your life, no matter which book, is bound to lead you to conflict no matter what. If you ask most religious if they distinctly follow the word of the Bible (and they are honest about it) then they'll likely say no, not strictly. Nobody goes around stoning each other for wearing two types of cloth together. There is a difference between the school officially putting up a poster promoting and/or affiliating themselves with any given belief system and me personally putting up a poster that says "Tsukasa smells like doo-doo." ...capische? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Wahrheit' timestamp='1301061303' post='5095482'] There is a difference between the school officially putting up a poster promoting and/or affiliating themselves with any given belief system and me personally putting up a poster that says "Tsukasa smells like doo-doo." [/quote] Yes there is, I would give even less of a s*** about the poster insulting me. And by your logic, we need to recall every piece of US currency because it has "In God We Trust" written on it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frunk Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Tsukasa Hiiragi' timestamp='1301061624' post='5095493']And by your logic, we need to recall every piece of US currency because it has "In God We Trust" written on it as well.[/quote] That is exactly what he is suggesting, and he is quite right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spirit of DMG Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Ugh, Separation of Church and State is [i]not[/i] in the Constitution. It was written in a letter by Thomas Jefferson to one of his friends. The only thing about religion in the constitution or its amendments is that the first amendment says something about government not establishing an official religion or something like that. The constitution itself is simply the framework for the government, it lays out what parts get to do what. Now, about the "prayer" thing: Does the bill say who they're praying to? No? Then who cares? If you're Christian/Jewish/Muslim, then pray to God. If you're Wiccan/Pagan/Hindu/etc. pray to whoever you pray to. If you're atheist... pray to yourself, I guess... It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahrheit Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 [quote name='Donovyn Mikara Gerra' timestamp='1301072277' post='5095687'] Ugh, Separation of Church and State is [i]not[/i] in the Constitution. It was written in a letter by Thomas Jefferson to one of his friends. The only thing about religion in the constitution or its amendments is that the first amendment says something about government not establishing an official religion or something like that. The constitution itself is simply the framework for the government, it lays out what parts get to do what. Now, about the "prayer" thing: Does the bill say who they're praying to? No? Then who cares? If you're Christian/Jewish/Muslim, then pray to God. If you're Wiccan/Pagan/Hindu/etc. pray to whoever you pray to. If you're atheist... pray to yourself, I guess... It's that simple. [/quote] Prayer is against my belief system and it's infringing on my total education by possibly weeks or years over the course of its entirety for even a few minutes per day to be reserved for something I don't agree with. Tsukasa: It's not about whether you don't care or not, it's about the fact that people have the right to their beliefs and the right not to have others' beliefs enforced on them in an official manner in this country. You're impeding my freedom of religion by having the state give any endorsement whatsoever to any religion, be it "under god" in the pledge of allegiance or "in god we trust" on coins or "in god we trust" on walls or whatever else have you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-dreezyAFG Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 [quote name='Larxene' timestamp='1300937036' post='5092883'] It's written on the f***ing quarter. Unless you want to remove it from that too, [b]I don't see what the problem with ALLOWING schools to put it up is.[/b] [/quote] tell that to non-christians, non-muslims, non-jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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