Barian Warlord Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I've had nothing to say for a while now so um, favorite digimon in each level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
//Zeromaru// Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Tapirmon Cho Shinka.. Mammothmon!! Baby - DatirimonIn-Training - SunmonRookie - GazimonChampion - StrikedramonUltimate - AntylamonMega - VenomMyotismonMode Change - Beelzemon Mode ChangeSuper Ultimate - Chronomon Destroyer ModeArmour - MagnamonH-Hybrid - DuskmonB-Hybrid - KorIkkakumonA-Hybrid - JetSiilphymonZ-Hybrid - Emperorgreymon I included Mode Change, Super Ultimate, Armour and the Hybrid levels because I felt like being a little bit pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Baby: DatirimonIn-Training: KapurimonRookie: PatamonChampion: AngemonUltimate: MistymonMega: DominimonSuper Ultimate: UlforceVeedramon Future Mode Mode Change: Alphamon King Dragon SwordArmor: ShadramonH-Hybrid: LobomonB-Hybrid: BurningGreymonA-Hybrid: AncientSphinxmonF-Hybrid: AldamonZ-Hybrid: Emperorgreymon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydra of Ages Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 The whole idea behind Savers was dumb, imo. Especially since it wasn't the last show. The only thing that salvaged it for me was the Izzy Creation Theory. The Izzy Creation Theory made no sense and was stupid in any case. and Savers was one of the few seasons that had a legitimately good concept behind it. The team is part of a branch of the government installed to deal with digimon invasions without freaking out regular people, and operate basically as Police+. The protagonists are the protagonists literally because it's their job to deal with things like this, and not because they were chosen to be the ~~~CHOSEN ONES~~~™. The digivices are actually man-made objects rather than secret artifacts of unclear origin / swiff-army knife macguffins, and the theme quickly becomes clear in that Digimon in general seem to see human invaders in the same light as humans see digimon invaders. Yggdrasil himself made an excellent villain because he isn't so much evil as he is logical. The human and digital worlds are going to annihilate eachother; in order to survive, one of them has to be destroyed. Humanity already broke their previous covenant with him, are responsible for numerous horrors to digi-kind, and are actually responsible for the situation in the first place, so it seems reasonable to him that destroying them entirely is the clearest option to take- and, of course, as God it's his job to make these sorts of hard calls. Masaru, on the other hand, made an excellent counterpoint because he's illogical. The point of his character is that he exceeds expectations and drives people to action- to fight, no matter what. 'Kick Logic to the door and do the Impossible', if you will. Not only does he break through every possible barrier in his way (Including the meta-barrier of the Mega-Level cap), he shows the rest of the world they can too, and saves both worlds rather than necessitating the death of one. Quite appropriately, his final action is to shatter the old broken and flawed Yggdrasil -the one that started malfunctioning when things weren't working as he calculated- and offer an opportunity for God himself to re-evaluate how he thinks about things. He didn't kill God, he did something even better- he managed to convince God to change his opinion. Really, you should always look at Savers through the same lens you looked at Gurren Lagann through, since they carry much of the same themes and motifs. The idea is that dedication and passion can change the world, and that the human spirit is indomitable- it's a message that manages to shine through without seeming forced, and it's exceptionally well-crafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexev Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 But then again, the other theme was that human spirit is kindof a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydra of Ages Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 But then again, the other theme was that human spirit is kindof a dick. Kurata's theme was that humanity could be just as much -or even more- of a monster as the ones they fought, correct (The Bio-Hybrids were extensions of that theme, by the way, representing the ways people could be coerced into doing horrible things. I could go on quite a long thing with this as well.) He was the counterpoint that disproved Yggdrasil's original faith in the human species, which had to be reignited by Masaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I made it really clear that I was just stating my opinion, no need to call me stupid. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydra of Ages Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I made it really clear that I was just stating my opinion, no need to call me stupid. =/ I said the theory was stupid. I did not say you were. If you chose to take it that way, not my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warden Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I do like htough how Kurata replaced Myotismon as the Complete Monster of the Digimon franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I said the theory was stupid. I did not say you were. If you chose to take it that way, not my fault.Didn't see this coming. Regardless, I will now argue against Savers. The entire show gave the aura of trying to get new attention, yet keep their old fans. A great idea, but was executed horribly. They start off by having the main digimon be Agumon, a different line yes but still didn't go over well with old fans. The older fans didn't like the meddling with their childhood, which leaves only the young kids who didn't watch to even enjoy the main character (Bringing back Biyomon was taken as a slap in the face by many old fans too considering the complete lack of need to be there). It's just like the new Yugioh series, just a spin on the original series. Yuma/Astral is the same as Yugi/Yami, and that series doesn't have much fan support. Now we go to Marcus, the main protagonist. After discarding the past traditions they turned his personality more towards Daisuke in the beginning than the other past protags (being obsessed with fighting). This gave the young kids someone strong to relate too, yet the past grimaced at the thought of a repeat. It wasn't until later that Marcus actually got serious about digimon, but it was too late for most older fans. You have clearly illustrated the themes throughout the series and they are very mature for this type of show, again trying to appeal to the older fans. However, instead of unifying the old and the young they ended up with an old generation not watching that far (or not being interested) because they dislike the characters, or children who cannot understand why the things are happening. All in all, it was just an attempt at trying to give everyone what they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexev Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 So basically.... the reason Saver sucked was because the fan base... didn't like trivial details like on of the digimon being an agumon? It was a dumb move but it was nothing for the fan's to get their proverbial panties into knots over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't think choosing your main protag digimon is something trivial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexev Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Compared to personality and his actions it kind of is. Especially since that problem kinda means that the only reason its bad is because you decided to compare to the old season, the problem with this is if you compare it to something like Tamers instead you wind up with Saver's being in a far better light because its not copying anything anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydra of Ages Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 All in all, it was just an attempt at trying to give everyone what they wanted. A successful attempt. Yeah, basically all the evidence I need to refute you is already self-evident. Savers made piles of cash. Like, enough to justify the funding of at least two more seasons- and of course, the season after THAT made even more money. Savers brought in more money than Tamers did, to give comparison. Really, the only people who didn't like it were whiny youtube fanboys, and they're not exactly the majority. (EDIT: No, I'm not calling you a whiny youtube fanboy, calm down.) To argue against specifics of your retort... 1) Masaru is like Davis; Obsessed with fighting Bull. Daisuke was NEVER obsessed with fighting, and indeed, was actually one of the more pacifistic protagonists. He was competitive, for sure, and liked sports, but he preferred to take the easier solution when the option was offered. Note that when Deltamon was threatening to eat his friends, he never considered just punching the thing in the face- that would be too much of a risk, after all.Also, Masaru was never "Not Serious" about digimon. Every time he fought was with more or less the same intensity, at least until Kurata at any rate- in fact, one of the earlier episodes has him being more serious about the threat of a digimon than Yoshino was, and Yoshi was the responsible one. He approaches combat with a certain degree of arrogance of course, but that's not him not taking it seriously, that's just how he fights- Touma realized this in the second episode he appeared in. Basically, Davis and Marcus are totally different sorts of characters. Daisuke was "The Heart"- he was the naive guy who kept the team on track by value of being simply nice, their morality compass for lack of a better term. He's likable because he's the kind of guy that doesn't dwell on things very long.Masaru, on the other hand, is an action guy. He gets things done, and he gets them done No. Matter. What. He's not naive- in fact, Masaru gets visibly pissed at incredibly evil villains, and certainly wasn't offering any sort of redemption to Kurata, nor did he allow Yggdrasil to escape from his crimes- if anything, Masaru is Daisuke's antithesis, acting as a crusader rather than a defender. To put it in a nutshell, Masaru is defined by how he metes out punishment, while Daisuke is more willing to forgive so long as you're not an active threat. They're both good protagonists, just a totally different kind. The fact they're both emotional is immaterial, they're totally different unless you flanderize them to the point of "Emotional protagonist / less emotional protagonist". 2) Putting in characters from Adventures is Meddling with our Childhoods What the heck is this? This is a horrible reason. Anyone who hated Savers based on the basis that the main character used the same species of digimon is functionally retarded. Look, it's called a throwback. Its a nod back to the fans that the creators put in to say "Hey, we remember where this all started!". It's not meant to replace the old series; you can still go back and watch Adventure if you want to; its a little bit of nostalgia the creators put in there so the fans can go, "hey, I remember when this happened for the first time! Ah, memories- isn't it great that they don't forget about all the old digimon?". There are multiple moments where they do something like this. Note that the scene where Masaru hatches Botamon out of his egg and it sticks to his face? It's a scene-by-scene recreation of the same thing happening in the first movie. Basically, if this did piss any fans off, I don't think we should care about their opinions anyway- since they obviously have Nostalgia Goggles on so tightly that it's stopping bloodflow to their skulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warden Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I still say that there should've been an Omnimon variant made from ShineGreymon & MirageGaogamon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexev Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I still say that there should've been an Omnimon variant made from ShineGreymon & MirageGaogamon. That would have been cool but oh well maybe next time. EDIT: To add to Hydra's thing. Ryo from tamers was a throwback to the digimon games and so was the seeds of darkness that was a big thing in the whole Daemon arc. Arguably those are even bigger points because it was both an entire character and a main plot point for an arc. So really if you use the throwback is bad argument you are going to off a lot of seasons as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 1) Masaru is like Davis; Obsessed with fighting 2) Putting in characters from Adventures is Meddling with our Childhoods@1: I never said that. I said that his dimwitted personality was similiar, not that they both enjoyed fighting. Masaru is obviously more physical. We can agree to disagree, but I doubt you will. @2: It doesn't matter what the creators intended, a majority of older fans didn't like it. I'm not going to continue arguing with someone who contorts words and scatters various insults in his debates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexev Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Now we go to Marcus, the main protagonist. After discarding the past traditions they turned his personality more towards Daisuke in the beginning than the other past protags (being obsessed with fighting). Sorry but yeah you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Roxas Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I do like htough how Kurata replaced Myotismon as the Complete Monster of the Digimon franchise. And then DarkKnightmon claimed the title of best villain of the franchise. I don't think choosing your main protag digimon is something trivial. But does it always have to be a dragon? A successful attempt. Yeah, basically all the evidence I need to refute you is already self-evident. Savers made piles of cash. Like, enough to justify the funding of at least two more seasons- and of course, the season after THAT made even more money. Savers brought in more money than Tamers did, to give comparison. Really, the only people who didn't like it were whiny youtube fanboys, and they're not exactly the majority. JesuOtaku is doing a retrospective on the first five seasons. She has made it very clear that she is really not looking forward to that, and she hates Masaru, saying that he doesn't make himself look strong, but rather that he makes Digimon look weak. As for people who hate Savers for being a throwback, I introduced the Savers line of Agumon to a few people and they thought it was stupid. Yes, people have Nostalgia Goggles and would prefer to have what they like messed up, which is why I think the Savers Agumon should be treated as a separate character rather than a rehash, even if he was designed entirely with the intent of being a walking throwback to Adventure. I for one didn't mind Savers, and when I get back to rewatching/finishing it, I'm sure I won't hate it like people seem to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warden Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 People like Dragons I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexev Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Dragons have a thing with being tied to main characters. I don't know why but this goes beyond Digimon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hydra of Ages Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 @1: I never said that. I said that his dimwitted personality was similiar, not that they both enjoyed fighting. Masaru is obviously more physical. We can agree to disagree, but I doubt you will. Yes, you literally stated that. You said they were similar in personality, and added (fighting) in parenthesis. Don't change your stance just because I call you out on it. Besides, being not-book-smart isn't exactly a character trait that makes them exactly the same. We could, but this is a debate and agreeing to disagree basically makes the entire exercise pointless. @2: It doesn't matter what the creators intended, a majority of older fans didn't like it. You can't make a claim like that unless you have some statistical evidence to back yourself up with. I could grab the TV Tokyo Ratings Guide and prove to you that Savers made a ton of cash compared to other seasons, so someone obviously liked the show, even if I can't specifically determine what demographic was watching. And yes, what the creators intended DOES matter. Keep in mind the argument I'm proving is "Savers is a good season of digimon" not "Savers is loved by everyone". I don't care what the opinions of the majority are, that doesn't necessarily make them right. I'm not going to continue arguing with someone who contorts words and scatters various insults in his debates. I haven't contorted anything, you're moving the goalposts in order to avoid actually confronting any of my points. Also, the people I insulted are: 1- Youtube Commentators2- People who hate Savers solely based on Agumon being the protagonist again, and for no other reason. If you happen to be either, well, guess there wasn't much of a point arguing with you to begin with then. I still say that there should've been an Omnimon variant made from ShineGreymon & MirageGaogamon. Yeah, they kinda missed an opportunity there. BurstOmegamon? SoulOmegamon? As for people who hate Savers for being a throwback, I introduced the Savers line of Agumon to a few people and they thought it was stupid. Yes, people have Nostalgia Goggles and would prefer to have what they like messed up, which is why I think the Savers Agumon should be treated as a separate character rather than a rehash, even if he was designed entirely with the intent of being a walking throwback to Adventure. Most of the people I've shown the line to are somewhat disturbed by S!Agumon's nose, don't mind GeoGreymon, adore RiseGreymon and are so-so with ShineGreymon. Nobody's gone into ulta-super-Nostalgia-defensive mode yet, though to be fair none of the people I've shown it to were absolutely massive digimon fans in the beginning. In particular, the consensus seems to be that RiseGreymon is a far superior design to MetalGreymon, though they still prefer WarGreymon to Shine. Plus, S!Agumon is pretty much a completely different character from the original Agumon, so I'm not sure what the problem is anyway. So they share a species, big deal- it's not like Agumon was supposed to be a unique species or anything. I for one didn't mind Savers, and when I get back to rewatching/finishing it, I'm sure I won't hate it like people seem to. I'd recommend it, at the least. It's not a perfect show, but when it's good, it's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smear Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Tamer Name: Lyra. I guess.Xros Loader Colour: Cyan. Also, I've just really gotten into Digimon, and I'm only up to Digimon Adventure 02, Episode 22.NO SPOILERS PLEASE. D:Oh, and I have no idea about anything with Xros, so I don't know what a Xros Loader is. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
//Zeromaru// Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 CANT WE ALL JUST STOP THE FIGHTING!!!!! I'm not getting into this arguement debate. I just like watching the shows and playing the games, all the protagonists good in my eyes. Including Tagiru... there I said it. Lyra, Unless the rules on what senior hunters can do have changed, you're in. Though you'll be put in Dame Square for a while... and about spoilers. These guys can't even stop spoilers for the newest episode, never mind on stuff that came out 10 years ago. Oh, a Xros Loader is the digivice for the newest series' it allows the users to xros their digimon into more powerful forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warden Posted November 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 *Pats Alfius* Good boy *Hands out a treat* BTW Legend, that Xros Loader oyu posted when you rejoined, did you custom colour it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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