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[Phantom Roxas]

But Lilithmon isn't supposed to be that powerful, and even if you ignore Frontier, Lucemon is supposed to stronger than her. I do know I said that Bagramon's backstory doesn't count, but at least that has a possibility of being true and was never confirmed, whereas Lucemon's role is completely contradictory.

 

DarkKnightmon outright says that everything he did was meant to defeat Bagramon. He said he trained his body, presumably to its peak, and created the Darkness Loader to augment his abilities. That's another reason why DarkKnightmon is not only a better villain, but a better character, as there is absolutely no explanation for Bagramon's power.

[Thundervlux]

So I get some sort of riddle for my digimon?...

 

You may message your answer to any of the partner riddles in the Hunts section on the 1st page to Broken or CMG. However, you may only guess at a riddle once per day. Also, if (like Mugen told you to) you post consecutively for a week, you will receive a partner (you must answer a riddle correctly to receive a partner, and if you do, the answer you gave will be the partner you receive). Hopefully you'll be able to figure out the answer to at least one of the current riddles, because after looking at them, I certainly know I can't!

[Nexev]

But Lilithmon isn't supposed to be that powerful, and even if you ignore Frontier, Lucemon is supposed to stronger than her. I do I said that Bagramon's backstory doesn't count, but at least that has a possibility of being true and was never confirmed, whereas Lucemon's role is completely contradictory.

Obviously he is not otherwise he would be the one in charge.

 

You seem to be missing a critical point in the world, sometimes when a story is in a different universe the characters are also different.

 

Thats why Beezlemon never became impmon.

 

Lucemon may be this biiiiig super person in most canons but Xros Wars universe uses a different rulebook and Lucemon got the short end of the stick.

 

Next you will complain about why Jijimon didn't just wipe everyone out or can I hold that to be self evident now?

 

With the exception of Bagramon, who all your complaints are that he is basically every other digimon villian, your sole case for arguing here is "They changed it and now it sucks", the key problem with this is that your entire arguement falls apart if someone just watches digimon out of order.

[Thundervlux]

I 'd just like to say I'm not just kissing up to you because you mentioned the possibility of upgrading Gizu, I actually completely agree with everything you've said today Nevex (sorry, but I just can't get used to calling you "Cutie". It just seems so... weird).

 

Also, have I been "super annoying" lately?

[Nexev]

Its going to be a long while before I upgrade Gizumon, like a few months at the least.

[Phantom Roxas]

Obviously he is not otherwise he would be the one in charge.

 

That's my problem. If it was someone like Barbamon, fine, but Lucemon? No.

 

You seem to be missing a critical point in the world, sometimes when a story is in a different universe the characters are also different.

 

Yes, but I would like some consistency.

 

Thats why Beezlemon never became impmon.

 

Baalmon was cool, and this was a different version of Beelzemon. Besides, he maintained his awesomeness, so I have no complaints about Xros Wars Beelzemon.

 

Lucemon may be this biiiiig super person in most canons but Xros Wars universe uses a different rulebook and Lucemon got the short end of the stick.

 

Then why use Lucemon in the first place? Because they were in the Heaven Zone?

 

Next you will complain about why Jijimon didn't just wipe everyone out or can I hold that to be self evident now?

 

I think Jijimon was a joke character in Tamers, so I was fine with how Jijimon was portrayed in Xros Wars. If I had to make a complaint, it would be that I might have wanted to see what would happen if he showed up more, but there are a lot of Digimon in the team that the same could be said for.

 

With the exception of Bagramon, who all your complaints are that he is basically every other digimon villian, your sole case for arguing here is "They changed it and now it sucks", the key problem with this is that your entire arguement falls apart if someone just watches digimon out of order.

 

My complaints of Bagramon all relate back to him being the worst Big Bad of Digimon, not that he's a rehash of past villains. However, if they watch Digimon out of order, like watching Frontier after Xros Wars, people will realize "Wait, that one-shot villain from Xros Wars is the main villain? He kicks ass here! Oh, and I guess that extra bug form is cool too." As a standalone, yes, Xros Wars is good, but I main problem is that it doesn't really try to stand out from the rest of the seasons.

[Nexev]

this was a different version of Beelzemon

AND THATS WHY LUCEMON WAS A MERE SERVANT.

 

YOUR LOGIC IS IN CIRCLES HERE.

 

OH ITS OKAY BECAUSE THE UNIVERSE WAS DIFFERENT EXCEPT SOME STUFF IS DIFFERENT SO I DONT LIKE IT.

 

LUCEMON IS JUST A SPECIES TYPE, ITS A POWERFUL ONE BUT WHEN THE DEMON LORD ORGANIZATION IS NOT PRESENT THE FACT IT'S HIERCHY ISN'T FOLLOWED SHOULDN'T MATTER.

 

LUCEMON WAS USED BECAUSE THE VILLIAN IN HEAVEN ZONE MATCHED LUCIFER WELL, IT WAS A HOLY DIGIMON WHO APPEARED GREAT AND KIND BUT HIS PRIDE AND ARROGANCE MADE HIM TURN AWAY FROM HIS FELLOWS AND REBEL AGAINST THE GOODNESS OF THE WORLD, HE SUCCUMED TO THE DARKNESS OF HIS OWN ARROGANCE AND ULTIMATELY SUFFERED FOR IT.

 

IF YOU ARE MAKING A BIBLICAL ANALOGY TO LUCIFER WHY NOT USE THE DIGIMON BASED ON LUCIFER? BECAUSE OF A HIERARCHY THAT ISN'T RELEVANT ANYMORE?

[Phantom Roxas]

By "different version", I meant in design, like how they changed Greymon.

 

So it's not okay for me to like one difference, but despise another? Granted, the only examples so far have been Beelzemon and Greymon, so let me look at some other examples. Knightmon, a standard mook from 02 and Frontier as part of the regular cast? Cool. Daipenmon, the original Spirit of Ice working for Lilithmon. Cool, I'm glad to see him.

 

Okay, so the Demon Lord hierarchy is gone, meaning that it doesn't follow the official biographies. As such, if there are no Demon Lords, then what is Bagramon? Yes, if it's doing away with the hierarchy, then it lends itself to more freedom, but why do away with the hierarchy? The Heaven Zone is thematically perfect, but why use one? Did they decide to put in Lucemon and then designed the arc around him, or did they decide to do the Heaven Zone arc and then chose to make Lucemon the monster of the week. There wasn't another angelic villain that they could use?

 

Lucifer is usually equated with Satan, and as such is in a position that would ordinarily imply that he would be the primary antagonist, so Lucemon is designed precisely to be the main villain, and why make him less than that? Before anyone points out Devimon, keep in mind that he actually was planned to be the main villain until Adventure got more episodes, and I think they successfully topped themselves with Apocalymon.

[The Warden]

I would like to point out that the actual D'Arcmon isn't a true villain, as the one from the movie was just a disguise used by Murmuxmon. Same goes for Hippogriffomon.

[Blake]

I would like to point out that the actual D'Arcmon isn't a true villain, as the one from the movie was just a disguise used by Murmuxmon. Same goes for Hippogriffomon.

Not disagreeing, per se, but Darcmon DOES evolve into Hippogriffomon which then evolves into Murmukusmon. Of course, it can also become Gryphonmon, but Gryphonmon serves and is the hands and feet of the demon, anyways.

 

Just saying Darcmon being a villain is a cosntant potential canon. I'm actually just enjoyign reading the two viewpoints and see where both are coming from.

 

EDIT: Also Angemon can also become a Murmukusmon, so it's a kinda linear point towards Darcmon being a viable one or not.

[The Warden]

Murmukusmon is a fallen angel digimon, so typically any holy creature could practically fall into any demonic creature basically. Hippogriffomon, being a holy type, may have fallen to Murmukusmon as some point, but again, the only time we've had D'Arcmon and Hippogriffomon in the same place was in the movie, which isn't canon because it didn't have an actual impact on Frontier itself; nor was it ever mentioned.

[Blake]

Murmukusmon is a fallen angel digimon, so typically any holy creature could practically fall into any demonic creature basically. Hippogriffomon, being a holy type, may have fallen to Murmukusmon as some point, but again, the only time we've had D'Arcmon and Hippogriffomon in the same place was in the movie, which isn't canon because it didn't have an actual impact on Frontier itself; nor was it ever mentioned.

I'm just going by the wiki, really, though I remember that movie. The apparent info says that Gryphonmon is the one that attends Murmukusmon and that it's basically the SkullGreymon (albeit sentient) version of Gryphonmon.

 

Also edited to mention Patamon is, apparently, able to turn into Murmukusmon as its mega form.

[The Warden]

That logic is from the manga Digimon NEXT, where a MagnaAngemon, grief stricken after an artificial DemiVeemon he was caring for died due to being abandoned (deleted from his little toy) by his Tamer, fell and became a Murmukusmon in his hatred for Tamers and Humans in general.

[Blake]

Aaah, alright then, good to know.

 

Still, it could really go either way with Darcmon, and a change of pace in "Evil Angel" would be nice, but the only one that legitimately always fits that role is, y'know, Lucemon.

 

I wouldn't mind if they made a new one or something, though. There really should be more, though it's a kinda moot point in retrospect.

[The Warden]

I really don't think the real D'Arcmon probably would be evil, due to be Joan D'Arc after all; too busy fighting in God's glorious name.

 

Bagramon is technically the new evil angel, considering that whilst he is a demon lord, he still fits the angel motiff.

[Blake]

He comes off more demonic than angelic to me, for some reason. At least in Falldown mode, Lucemon seems Angelic, it's only Shadow Lord/Satan (And by association, Larval) mode that really gives off a demonic vibe. The whole right side of Bagramon just throws me off, what with the evil tree and all, but to each their own.

[Hydra of Ages]

So it's not okay for me to like one difference, but despise another?

 

Nope, it's just that you're complaining about it being inconsistent... except when it's inconsistent in a way you like, which kinda flies in the face of your argument.

 

 

Granted, the only examples so far have been Beelzemon and Greymon, so let me look at some other examples. Knightmon, a standard mook from 02 and Frontier as part of the regular cast? Cool. Daipenmon, the original Spirit of Ice working for Lilithmon. Cool, I'm glad to see him.

 

See, here's the part where I don't get you. Daipenmon is apparently weak enough to be taken down by X4K; this is fine with you. Lucemon being taken down by X5, which has been shown to be ludicrously powerful by regular standards? Total bullcrap. Apparently.

 

Okay, so the Demon Lord hierarchy is gone, meaning that it doesn't follow the official biographies. As such, if there are no Demon Lords, then what is Bagramon?

 

Dunno. I don't think anyone here was arguing that we should take Bagramon's biography without a grain of salt. Why bring it up? Let me remind you that we haven't got an explanation for Devimon, Myotismon or any of the Dark Master's power either. Or, in fact, 90% of all digimon villains.

 

Yes, if it's doing away with the hierarchy, then it lends itself to more freedom, but why do away with the hierarchy?

 

Because... it... lends itself to more freedom? (Why did you just ask a question after you supplied the answer for it?)

 

The Heaven Zone is thematically perfect, but why use one?

 

Because it's thematically perfect? And also a cool setting? Do you need any more reasoning? They had to come up with a bunch of zone ideas for the show, and Heaven Zone cropped up in a brainstorming session, do they need any more reason?

 

Did they decide to put in Lucemon and then designed the arc around him, or did they decide to do the Heaven Zone arc and then chose to make Lucemon the monster of the week. There wasn't another angelic villain that they could use?

 

D'Arcmon doesn't literally look like a small cute child, and Lucemon Falldown Mode is more appropriate to showcase X5 in; it's difficult to get a good scope of power when you're fighting a human-sized enemy. From a writer's perspective, Lucemon was the perfect choice and I might have questioned them if they chose otherwise.

 

Look at it this way- why not choose Lucemon? I don't think you've supplied a concrete argument for why he was a poor choice. He made for an interesting situation, an interesting fight, and he was the perfect choice for the theme of the zone. What more did you need?

 

 

Lucifer is usually equated with Satan, and as such is in a position that would ordinarily imply that he would be the primary antagonist, so Lucemon is designed precisely to be the main villain, and why make him less than that?

 

I will now list all the digimon equatable with Satan by theme.

 

Beelzemon.

SkullSatamon.

Devimon. (also NeoDevimon)

Phelesmon.

Mephistomon.

Gulfmon.

GranDracmon.

Daemon.

Leviamon.

Ogudomon.

VenomMyotismon.

Apocalymon.

Diaboromon.

Armageddemon.

 

Why make him less than that? Because they don't need another main villain, and again, why not? You're the one who has the burden of proof in this argument.

 

Before anyone points out Devimon, keep in mind that he actually was planned to be the main villain until Adventure got more episodes, and I think they successfully topped themselves with Apocalymon.

 

I don't see how this matters. Once again, about half of all Nightmare Soldiers digimon are devil expys anyway.

[The Warden]

I believe Devimon's power was derived from both the Black Gears and the powers of darkness in general. I think the same is applied to the other villains as well. And the Dark Masters were powerful due to being in their mega stage when they were first created.

[YoYoshi]

Actively Post? ... :3 So what's the topicc? XDDD

[The Warden]

...How is it that you can post, yet you can't read?

[Nexev]

Bagramon is technically the new evil angel, considering that whilst he is a demon lord, he still fits the angel motiff.

Old testament is a dick isn't it?

[Hydra of Ages]

I believe Devimon's power was derived from both the Black Gears and the powers of darkness in general. I think the same is applied to the other villains as well. And the Dark Masters were powerful due to being in their mega stage when they were first created.

 

Devimon created the Black Gears.

 

Also, this is a poor argument and you know it.

[Mugendramon]

Devimon created the Black Gears.

 

Also, this is a poor argument and you know it.

 

And now I wonder why the hell was it that there was a huge whirlpool in the middle of the digital ocean.

 

And where the hell were Dark Towers coming from.

 

Oh wait, 02 is stupid because it was inconsistent. The only thing that "kept it together", if it really ever did, was the power of Darkness.

 

They said in 02 that there were many dimensions that could overlap.

 

One of them -Dagomon's Ocean-, could supply the BSy Dark Power that villains so desperately need to be evil.

[Phantom Roxas]

Nope, it's just that you're complaining about it being inconsistent... except when it's inconsistent in a way you like, which kinda flies in the face of your argument.

 

They tried to do something different with Beelzemon, and it was actually somewhat similar to his characterization in Tamers, being a former villain who turned good, while Lucemon was just thrown in and they rushed it.

 

See, here's the part where I don't get you. Daipenmon is apparently weak enough to be taken down by X4K; this is fine with you. Lucemon being taken down by X5, which has been shown to be ludicrously powerful by regular standards? Total bullcrap. Apparently.

 

Daipenmon had never been shown before, and while he is supposed to be one of the ten Spirits, we haven't been shown how strong he actually is. As such, I don't see what can clash with the idea that he can be defeated so easily beyond informed strength. Also, how do you think X5 compares to EmperorGreymon or MagnaGarurumon? Yes, X5 was powerful, but my main point is that Lucemon was weak.

 

Dunno. I don't think anyone here was arguing that we should take Bagramon's biography without a grain of salt. Why bring it up? Let me remind you that we haven't got an explanation for Devimon, Myotismon or any of the Dark Master's power either. Or, in fact, 90% of all digimon villains.

 

Nex pointed out that without the Demon Lord hierarchy, Lucemon's power level shouldn't matter, and I was recognizing the flaw in my argument that I criticize Bagramon for lacking backstory while Lucemon blatantly contradicts his own.

 

Because... it... lends itself to more freedom? (Why did you just ask a question after you supplied the answer for it?)

 

It just seems like a cheap excuse to rehash old villains.

 

Because it's thematically perfect? And also a cool setting? Do you need any more reasoning? They had to come up with a bunch of zone ideas for the show, and Heaven Zone cropped up in a brainstorming session, do they need any more reason?

 

Okay, fine, but why Lucemon? SlashAngemon was the first villain of the Zone, and he was an angel, so it would have been fine to keep him around.

 

D'Arcmon doesn't literally look like a small cute child, and Lucemon Falldown Mode is more appropriate to showcase X5 in; it's difficult to get a good scope of power when you're fighting a human-sized enemy. From a writer's perspective, Lucemon was the perfect choice and I might have questioned them if they chose otherwise.

 

Now that I can agree with. Old viewers now Lucemon is powerful, and X5's victory would convince them how powerful that form is.

 

Look at it this way- why not choose Lucemon? I don't think you've supplied a concrete argument for why he was a poor choice. He made for an interesting situation, an interesting fight, and he was the perfect choice for the theme of the zone. What more did you need?

 

I was originally only bothered by him working for Lilithmon, nothing else. That was the one thing they got wrong.

 

 

I will now list all the digimon equatable with Satan by theme.

 

Beelzemon. Big villain in Tamers, and was already included in Xros Wars.

SkullSatamon. Could evolve into Daemon, and was twice shown to be a very powerful mook, not to mention he can fly, and was used for Imperialdramon Fighter Mode's debut.

Devimon. (also NeoDevimon) Again, he was originally an important villain, although I would actually think this might be redundant after they just had IceDevimon, although they could have played off of that. However, he's too weak to show off X5.

Phelesmon. Never appeared in the anime until they got to Young Hunters. That's where I'm at now, so I'll see what they did with him.

Mephistomon. I would have picked this. Yes, he was used before, but in a movie, and did require three Ultimate-level Digimon to defeat him. He also could make sense as working for Lilithmon.

Gulfmon. As the evolution of Mephistomon, this could take Satan Mode's place. He's also somewhat similar to X4B in terms of design, but also threatening enough to facilitate X5. However, I doubt he could fly like Satan mode could.

GranDracmon. Again, like Gulfmon. However, even the Demon Lords fear him, so that just brings us back to the problem with Lucemon.

Daemon. Considering his overall importance in 02, it would have been fine to use him. His cloaked appearance could double as a disguise.

Leviamon. To bestial, and had already been used as a DigiMemory.

Ogudomon. That could work, and since it could be made from any two Demon Lords, I could believe that it could serve Lilithmon. However, it can't fly, which was the point of X5's battle.

VenomMyotismon. Again, previous Big Bad.

Apocalymon. See the above.

Diaboromon. Big Bad that can't fly.

Armageddemon. Just another form of Diaboromon.

 

Why make him less than that? Because they don't need another main villain, and again, why not? You're the one who has the burden of proof in this argument.

 

Okay, so compared to that list, Lucemon is the logical choice, although SkullSatamon and Mephisto could have worked just as fine, although none of them could have taken advantage of a disguise like Lucemon could.

 

I don't see how this matters. Once again, about half of all Nightmare Soldiers digimon are devil expys anyway.

 

That last part was meant as "inb4" in case someone was going to say "Devimon was based after Satan and he wasn't the main villain."

[Mugendramon]

Daipenmon had never been shown before, and while he is supposed to be one of the ten Spirits, we haven't been shown how strong he actually is. As such, I don't see what can clash with the idea that he can be defeated so easily beyond informed strength. Also, how do you think X5 compares to EmperorGreymon or MagnaGarurumon? Yes, X5 was powerful, but my main point is that Lucemon was weak.

 

...Well, there is the fact that Lucemon had gathered the data of the whole world before showing up.

 

With that much Data, it only makes sense he was obnoxiously powerful.

 

This time? Generic Darkness. Does not compare.