YCMthropology

[Sploda]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289706260' post='4783072']
I talked about the first problem already. If things go out of control in a days time I'm not going to do anything to the leader. While the most time that passes without him stepping in the more likely it would be for me to warn him and the members I would note if his note stepping in is because he can't (I'd just look at his last log in) or if it he just didn't try. Also having co-leaders or something like that to watch the club would help to make this problem less likely to show up.

With a rules redo it should be clear that they can't get away with it. If they want to test it it's there gamble. I can't catch everything but if we had more eyes on this section, like we are hoping to get, it becomes more likely that someone will see them. I'm still hoping to do this restart at the start of next year so I'll be able to use that time to make new rules and clear things up before everything would start spinning again.

One of the things that I liked about the nuke idea was that people would be making the clubs knowing that should things get out of hand in there club they would have some responsibility. While some of this is lost with the freeze idea it still gives them time to accept that things are going to change. I'm also thinking of leaving the rules tread open when I make so people can give feed back on that.
[/quote]

Alright thanks for clarifying.

As for the more 'eyes' on the section, if you can't get another mod, why don't YOU pick a few of the more active members of the section to watch the clubs with you. I stress the you in that I don't want polls, clubs, or other members in general picking people. Because that would just lead to them picking people they like and know they could get away with it.

Make a sort of unofficial Lt.Mod position or something.

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289711704' post='4783243']
I don't ever think I said I was going to ban vague topics. All I said was [b]I COULD ban them should ban them should they become a problem.[/b] In thinking about it they do have uses. My problem is using an anime thread to talk about naruto video games. When you've reached that point you've started moving in the domain of other topics. There are gray areas though so talking about the manga in relation to the anime is something I'd be fine with. Another problem is how much can be done in these topics. If you make a video game club it's basically going to be able to take every thread in video games and move it into one thread. I get that being open ended is good, but there are points when you can simply have to much space.

However as I said these vague kind of topics can fall under gray areas, so this is something that I would need to see in action before I say if the amount of room they have in their topic is to much.
[/quote]

That time has come and gone, and then come back. If you thing you SHOULD and you CAN then why don't you? It would finally clear out the clutter.

Anime isn't to vague though Zero, you just can't go and talk about last night's football game or anything.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='TheCreator94' timestamp='1289713537' post='4783271']
As for the more 'eyes' on the section, if you can't get another mod, why don't YOU pick a few of the more active members of the section to watch the clubs with you. I stress the you in that I don't want polls, clubs, or other members in general picking people. Because that would just lead to them picking people they like and know they could get away with it.

Make a sort of unofficial Lt.Mod position or something.
[/quote]
We're talking about it in the mod forum. Should anything big come out of it I think we'll shair the news.

Also part of the club leader rule is to have extra eyes. Granted it's kind of forcing them to take up that role, but, atm, I think it might be the simplest way to get that extra help since those are the people that should be watching the thread anyway.

[quote name='TheCreator94' timestamp='1289713537' post='4783271']
That time has come and gone, and then come back. If you thing you SHOULD and you CAN then why don't you? It would finally clear out the clutter.

Anime isn't to vague though Zero, you just can't go and talk about last night's football game or anything.
[/quote]
I don't think I should though. The problem is what is vague. To some people anime might be vague, but to other it's not. Something like video games is something I'd find vague, but FPS not so much. Drawing lines in the sand is a hard to think to do and I'd rather not do so if I can find another way. Again I think it would be best to wait to see how everything falls after the restart this way we'll have a better idea as to what we're dealing with.

[Amethyst Phoenix]

Wait, so you're actually doing the restart?

[Flame Dragon]

No, but things are going to change. I'm calling that change a restart since no matter it's form things will be restarting in some way.

[Sploda]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289715078' post='4783297']
I don't think I should though. The problem is [b]what is vague[/b]. To some people anime might be vague, but to other it's not. Something like video games is something I'd find vague, but FPS not so much. Drawing lines in the sand is a hard to think to do and I'd rather not do so if I can find another way. Again I think it would be best to wait to see how everything falls after the restart this way we'll have a better idea as to what we're dealing with.
[/quote]
1.
not clearly or explicitly stated or expressed: vague promises.
2.
indefinite or indistinct in nature or character, as ideas or feelings: a vague premonition of disaster.
3.
not clear or distinct to the sight or any other sense; perceptible or recognizable only in an indefinite way: vague shapes in the dark; vague murmurs behind a door.
4.
not definitely established, determined, confirmed, or known; uncertain: a vague rumor; The date of his birth is vague.
5.
[b]not clear or definite in thought, understanding, or expression: vague about motives.[/b]
6.
showing lack of clear perception or understanding: a vague stare.

I do belief the dictionary can answer that question.

With that a safe lock/deat of any club that has an unclear, or lacks a definite, predetermined, understood, overall topic should be in order.

[Dark]

As in, he's not nuking the forum so you can all shut up about stuff and unfair and whatnot.

I like this compromise a lot, actually. I don't see how video games is too broad of a topic, since a lot of vdeo game discussions legitimately lead into other video game discussions. But once we start talking about movies (and not the video game versions of movies), we are off-topic. Eh, that's just me, though.

You could possibly [i]require[/i] clubs to have at least one co-leader or second-in-command, even if it isn't officially stated. Because everywhere else in the world, if the president dies or leaves or goes on vacation, someone is [b]always[/b] there to take care of things. So someone should always be taking care of a certain club, even if the normal leader is gone. If it just so happens that all five of the responsible members of a club go on vacation at the same time... well, that sucks for them. :/

[DL]

I say a rule be added that a club MUST have a second form of power, whether in a co-leader, trio, etc, that lead the club in the leader's absence.

BTW, I'd rather have broad topics that cover a lot, and make huge threads, than several dozen small threads pertaining to branches of that topic.

@Creator - Anime IS a broad topic. >.>

There's several thousand topics you can have, and several dozen topics branching from those topics.

[Dark]

Many people said that there were cliques of YCM members, and I agree. C&O is [i]somewhat[/i] of a fun place to hang out. But if you have only one thread per broad topic, you are taking seventy people who like Pokemon and dumping them into a thread where they may not like the other people.

The Mushroom Kingdom is just a general video game thread, much like a lot of other video game threads. But we have seven or eight active members that all like each other. How would you like to be dumped in a thread with Pichu just beacuse you both like YVD or something?

But once you have seven or eight different threads talking about the same thing, a mod should intervene and find some threads to merge. Since the forum would be cluttered with 12 video game threads, 12 anime threads, et cetera.

[DL]

Well you're not FORCED to interact with the people you don't like ¬_¬

You don't like a member, ignore him.

Cept if he's a club leader, of course, you shouldn't ignore HIM >.>

[Dark]

Personally I don't like the idea of taking every Pokemon club and mashing them together. While Pokemon is a broad topic, there are still many facets, and the main thing is that people just do not get along. You can ignore someone, but when they are [i]forced[/i] to be in the same thread as you, things get ugly. I'd love to make my own thread and not be in this stupid club with Smesh. But apparently all YCM clubs are mashed into one thread, so I'm forced to be in the same place as this retard.

I don't feel this way about Smesh, but you understand the logic. Maybe have a cap at five clubs per broad topic? And broad can be determined by Flame Dragon. If something is specific, of course, there is no reason why two clubs should be formed. Because if something is [i]that[/i] specific that it warrants its own club instead of being mashed in with something bigger, you should be perfectly willing to let other people who share an interest in that topic join.

For example, let's say all the Pokemon clubs looked like this.

Team Aqua
Team Magma
Pokemon Discussion Corner
Hoenn Starz
Generic Club Name 1
Generic Club Name 2
Generic Club Name 3
Smogonites Unite
Competitive Club

Excuse the horrid names.

The first seven clubs are really just generic discussions; even in Hoenn Starz, the topic will most likely be pertaining to all Pokemon, not just the RSE ones.

Because this is such a broad topic with many cliques, ask the club leaders to come together and somehow make those seven clubs into five. That means two clubs have to merge with two other clubs. So perhaps Team Aqua and Team Magma can merge, and Hoenn Starz and Generic 3 can merge. Now we have five clubs, and it's less cluttered. The club leaders choose who merges because they know the people in their club the best, and know that if Pichu is in one club and Dark is in another, those two just cannot mix.

And for Smogonites Unite and Competitive Club, they would not be locked because they are a lot more specific, although still dealing with Pokemon. However, they are specific enough (since only twelve people or less play competitively on YCM (that are still active, I miss you Tekken)) such that they are forced to be merged.

[Sploda]

I agree with Dark, if you tried to throw all this discussion into one place things would get chaotic and people would get angry. But Having a single broad topic should work for clubs. By having a single broad topic it allows us to easily see when your off-topic as when you go from Movies, to talking about Action figures.

[.Starrk]

[quote name='TheCreator94' timestamp='1289773320' post='4785262']
I agree with Dark, if you tried to throw all this discussion into one place things would get chaotic and people would get angry. But Having a single broad topic should work for clubs. By having a single broad topic it allows us to easily see when your off-topic as when you go from Movies, to talking about Action figures.
[/quote]

But, if you have a broad topic, the discussion will insue on for a while, but people will lose ideas and interest.

[Sploda]

[quote name='Coyote Starrk' timestamp='1289775410' post='4785349']
But, if you have a broad topic, the discussion will insue on for a while, but people will lose ideas and interest.
[/quote]

A broad topic zone such as 'Anime' allows you discuss several things. You can discuss Bleach, a Naruto RP in the works, a new Code Geass Fanfic, etc. All under the compass of 'Anime'.

[.Starrk]

[quote name='TheCreator94' timestamp='1289776579' post='4785408']
A broad topic zone such as 'Anime' allows you discuss several things. You can discuss Bleach, a Naruto RP in the works, a new Code Geass Fanfic, etc. All under the compass of 'Anime'.
[/quote]

Ok I thought you meant Like Bleach or Pokemon.

[DL]

That is what he meant, but anything under Anime can be fanfic about that, RP about that, games about that, movies about that, etc.


@Dark - No one FORCES you to join a club with people you dislike >.>

And if you want to have a Pokemon club, and you really dislike that many people is said club, make your own.

Altho I suppose in the end, neither too specific or too broad is they key.

Then again, there might be people you dislike in even the most narrow-topicked of clubs. And if there's no other clubs about that, you're screwed.

So really it's all situational.

[Dark]

There are some things that are too broad. Like, really broad. Like, Absolute Powerforcish kind of broad. Those clubs should be b&.

It really depends on Flame Dragon to decipher what is too broad and what isn't. In his eyes, "video games" should be specified more to "Nintendo games" or "Mario games". But while that is the topic of the club, there is some wiggle room. So if the topic is Mario games, you can probably still talk about Zelda and Kirby without getting a warn handed to you.

This seems to be the best solution, but what about clubs that refuse to stay on a topic? Send 'em to a subsection in games, or just lock them for eternity?

[DL]

Of course, this goes back to what I touched on about not being too broad or too narrow.

Something like "Video games" will probably not be hugely popular, and tend to get spammish.

Something like "Ocarina of Time club" will probably not be very successful. Obviously.

So something like "Legend of Zelda club" is the best in between.


I say there CAN be a way to measure.

I say a concept cannot be a club topic, but a series, franchise, activity and such can.

A concept is like, video games, sports, and such.

Altho honestly it can fluctuate, so the cases, in the end, will have to be judged individually.

[CinnamonStar]

You mean if they start on a certain topic but refuse to follow the rules and go all over the place? Then they should be locked IMO.=/

This section needs to be stricter but if we start going all strict, as in all new clubs have to be approved by the mods about whether their topic is good or not (I'm taking this as an extreme example), then this section loses its purpose.=/ More overview and mod following is the greatest thing that's needed, IMO, from there on it should become better, provided that the mod is active and doing his job. Maybe guidelines on how to make a good, successful, non-spammy club would be good, I'm thinking about bringing back the interviews as well, they were meant to contain club ratings too.

EDIT: And I agree with the above poster, finding the golden middle is the right thing. Just "video games" is just too broad, chances are that YOUR favourite games aren't going to be discussed so personally I wouldn't join something like that. I don't think that a concept should totally be scrapped from becoming a club topic though, or clubs that are about helping newbies and making friends (they can be decent too), but those clubs should be supervised in particular, and at the first sign of spam they get locked. But sure, if they're used as an excuse to spam and turn into something that could be done via PM or in Games, like "let's talk about anything" clubs, then they're pointless.

[DL]

I agree, clubs that don't follow th rules must consequently get locked.

Also, some clubs that talk about anything CAN be decent.

In fact, I'd rather the rule relate to "If you have a club where you can talk about anything, prove to us that you can keep it spam-free"

because that gives people a sense of trust in them.

I myself knew a somewhat old club, Club Random, which talked about everything, but wasn't exactly spammy. I'm not against the rule tho, just feel not ALL talk about everything clubs are spammy.


Only they become spammy if people begin making posts that don't contribute to the current topic, or making posts like "lulwut?"

[Fusion X. Denver]

Sorry to post something off-topic, a lot of good points have been said, but I want to bring up this one small complaint.

The latest stickying was kind of a fail in my opinion. The Lyric Lounge has not been posted in since Halloween.
Two weeks.
And it was stickied when it had less than 500 replies I think.

Do you think that spot and perhaps more (I forget how many were allowed to be stickied at one time, but I remember Flame saying he stickied what he did because not enough people applied) could be given away and opened again?
I think there are more deserving clubs who could be in that spot.

[Dark]

The problem is, C&O spam is defined as going off-topic. So if you have a club that can talk about anything, the argument can be made that nothing is spam. As such, clubs that "talk about everything" should either be locked or put in Games.

I liked your analogy with video games, Zelda, and OoT, and that definitely clarified it a bit for me. The problem is, if you see that me and Clair and Eury and Ice and Layton and Tainted are all in the same Mario, Zelda, Kirby, and Pokemon clubs, why not just merge them and make a Nintendo club? :/

[Flame Dragon]

Going to skip a good number of posts. Since they all deal with the same thing, what I'm going to do about vague topics, I'll just say again that nothing is set right now. I don't like the idea of out right banning something before the new system even starts. Again we'll see how things play out and should we have a need to cut down on the vague topics I'll make the call when the time is right.

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289784461' post='4785785']
Sorry to post something off-topic, a lot of good points have been said, but I want to bring up this one small complaint.

The latest stickying was kind of a fail in my opinion. The Lyric Lounge has not been posted in since Halloween.
Two weeks.
And it was stickied when it had less than 500 replies I think.

Do you think that spot and perhaps more (I forget how many were allowed to be stickied at one time, but I remember Flame saying he stickied what he did because not enough people applied) could be given away and opened again?
I think there are more deserving clubs who could be in that spot.
[/quote]
Yea they were. When I opened the app thread like 5 people asked to be stuck. I even said I would stick all threads that gave in an app if we didn't get enough.

I number is 5-7. And yea, I think the rule is still in place for sticky threads that don't stay active will get unstuck. Just since we are half way into this period I don't think many people will want to stick for only a month and a half.

ALso I think I still have it that people can pm me apps. I know when I first said that I only got a few so again it might just be that people don't care.

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1289784643' post='4785796']
The problem is, C&O spam is defined as going off-topic. So if you have a club that can talk about anything, the argument can be made that nothing is spam. As such, clubs that "talk about everything" should either be locked or put in Games.

I liked your analogy with video games, Zelda, and OoT, and that definitely clarified it a bit for me. The problem is, if you see that me and Clair and Eury and Ice and Layton and Tainted are all in the same Mario, Zelda, Kirby, and Pokemon clubs, why not just merge them and make a Nintendo club? :/
[/quote]
Because what club topic wins out? Odds are one of those topics will be the main one so you loss out a little on the ones that become secondary. And again I really don't like it when clubs have that much room cause you know that a lot of different things can work in a Nintendo club. While this is true if it was something like a Mario club that had some talk on Nintendo in general (such as when a new game is coming out) I think I would be find with it that. Also that's only 6 people. I think decent sized clubs have at least twice that number (I could be wrong) so it it fair to merge it if the other club members wouldn't want it? Granted I'm sure that is something people would talk about in the club itself.

Also another note is that a General Nintendo club can cover different ground. Much how the general pokemon thread and B/W thread are both fine to be active at once that could work here. Since you have more topics in a Nintendo thread your going to spend more time with over views of different things. In a Mario club, a Zelda, and others like that you have more space to go in-depth into that clubs topic. If they had this kind of relationship then I'd be fine with it.

[Catterjune]

... Not to be rude or negative or anything, but why does this club exist instead of being a "suggestions" topic?

[DL]

@PikaPerson - To DISCUSS YCM problems of course :3 Somethin you can't do in suggestions threads.

@Dark - Nothin's stoppin you from having a Mario, Loz, and Kirby club without a Nintendo club~

But really, some clubs HAVE merged in the past~

@FD - You're still accepting sticky apps through PM? >.>

Huh.

@Fusion - It was actually around 80 posts I believe ._.

[Dark]

No, it causes less clutter if you merge three Nintendo-based-franchise-clubs into one big Nintendo club, especially if they have relatively the same member base.

Unless you want to make it the decision of the club leaders. Meaning, if the club leaders of the Mario and Zelda and Kirby club want to merge, they can send an appeal to a super moderator to do that.

@ PikaPerson: It's a shitton easier to have an open conversation and debate about a topic here in an organized thread where mods post instead of making a thread where people say "count me in" and "support++". :/