YCMthropology

[Twig]

[quote name='Opalmoon' timestamp='1289575471' post='4778880']
On the other side, I'd just like to ask, would it really make you guys angry if a club was shut down but you can just continue posting in a new thread and link to the old one? Just curious.
[/quote]

Their argument is that it will make the big clubs slow down/become inactive/look less "big"/not be successful.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289541157' post='4778556']
I saw Nexev point out the member groups thing.
Which got me thinking.
What is the point of clubs?
I own a Naruto club. But if there is already a thread about Naruto in Anime & Manga, why should I bother having this club when I can discuss it there?
If you look around, all clubs have a topic that's discussed in other sections of the forum.
Video game clubs like Club Pikachu, Pokemon can simply be discussed in Video Games.
Clubs for every anime, they can all be discussed in Anime & Manga.
Clubs about politics and current events, or issues in the world, don't those usually show up in General or Debate? (I'll admit this is the weak point of my argument, but then again, this forum is a kid's site. I'm sure those types of clubs are not very common.)
[/quote]
I know this is one of the problems with my idea. When the B/W news was breaking I was posting in several different threads about it, two of them in here.The one thing that make C/O different though is that it takes the whole forum and makes it one. It is the only place where you can have threads on Pokemon, Yugioh, Magic, Unicorns, all in one place.

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289541157' post='4778556']
[b]1)[/b] So I ask you, what is the point of C&O?
It's about clubs and member groups of course! (inb4statingtheobvious)
I'll use Akatsuki of YCM for an example.
Its founder, Aa'une's Apprentice (now Deidara's Blackwing) gathered people he knew from various sections and formed the Akatsuki by inviting them to join. We boomed off into discussion of Naruto for a good long while. Then eventually, we diverted off topic and began to discuss other things.
Why is this? Surely these members should know better than to "spam"?

It's simple really.
They want to get to know each other more.
When you have a nice discussion or debate with someone that captures your interest into talking with them, wouldn't you want to know more about them? To see if you have anything else in common, or if they have similar views on issues as you do?
What I'm getting at, and what I personally think makes clubs clubs, is it forms a bond between its members.
Of friendship, especially because it allows the freedom to do so that open discussion threads cannot. (Cue corny mood/friendship speech)

[b]2)[/b]You see, in the Anime & Manga Naruto thread, I see members discuss the new chapter every week when released, and the occasional discussion during the week discussing other aspects of the anime and manga. But that's it. It's members conversing together about the one topic, and that's it.
If you look in Akatsuki, we do the same thing. When we're done and nothing more is said, we turn to something else to keep talking with one another.
You see, I'll say again, I believe the purpose of C&O is to make friends. This is done by forming a club that has a common interest that brings people together. Once this is done, these members can discuss other things and interests, leading to bonds of friendship, hatred, or neutrality.

I've made very good friends on this site through clubs. I trust these people and look forward to talking to them each day. Hell, I actually [i]want[/i] to meet these people in real life because I feel close to them. Sorry if I'm beginning to sound creepy/weird, but this is the extent of the impact clubs have brought to me by helping me make all these friends.

[/quote]
1) But why do they need to use a thread made for Pokemon to talk about Yugioh? I can understand wanting to find other things you have in common, but there is a time and place for everything. And again if you drift a little in side talks I'm fine with that, but I simply don't want a club about Naruto to have 5 pages (I use 40 posts a page fyi) in a row all about Pokemon. At this point the club has started lossing sight of why it was made in the first place.

2) Again I can understand wanting to make friends but wouldn't you be able to do that while remaining true to the main topic? Is it really so bad to need more then 1 thread to find several common interest? Lets say you go to a One Piece, Magic, and Pokemon thread because you like those things and now you start seeing the same person in each thread wouldn't that tell you that they like what you do? Really the way I think of things that will serve the same ends, only now each topic has it's own home.

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289541157' post='4778556']
[b]1)[/b]And why did Ice and Nexev join Akatsuki when they despise Naruto? (The following is my conjecture and may be proven wrong by Ice and Nexev) They enjoyed discussion with our members in other clubs they were both in, and decided to join Akatsuki to talk more with these members or possibly get to know other members that have been alluded to or mentioned before.

[b]2)[/b]In Akatsuki, I see joyful (or not so joyful) discussion between members, and in the A&M Naruto thread, I see sole professional discussion about it.
I suppose my main stance on Clubs is that when you join a club, you can certainly expect to discuss the "main topic" with its members, but you should also know that being off-topic isn't a bad thing (I foresee rebuttals being made here, but hear me out) because it leads to finding more common interests or drawing people into the conversation.
A perfect example is the member Chaos Sonic.
He joined Akatsuki, and not long after, he witnessed Daisuke L. Hirako, El Make, and I get into an argument that was half-joking (which we do because we're friends, we mess with each other).
His reaction?
He became interested in our antics and seemed to joyously ask Black and us if we're always like this. And like that, a new friendship was made, and Chaos Sonic eventually earned a spot in El Make's bio of his friends (which is hard to achieve)

Clubs can start off with a main topic sure, and should always return to it, but these clubs, after reaching a certain point, or almost right away, become a specific group of members.
[/quote]
1) And that is part that I really don't like. Why do they need to talk to them there when they already have other threads? From what you told me they joined to talk about things tha have nothing to do with the subject of the club. That doesn't seem right to me.

2) Being off topic is bad, but as I've said I know it happens and am nothing going to start killing people because of it. And we seem to agree on this point. Now let me ask you how ling is to long to be off topic? To me anything more the page (40 posts) is to much.

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289541157' post='4778556']
You see, I have seen clubs that stick to the main topic and only the main topic. It's very strict on spam and off-topic posts and allows only on-topic discussion. A few posts or a page is made, then people run out of things to say. This either stifles the conversation and leaves the thread dead for a while, or the owner has to post a new topic for members to discuss, and only that. It all feels awkward and stiff.
[/quote]
And on the other end topics are able to change at the drop of a dime and in a day can go though Amethyst's list. That chaotic and random.

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289541157' post='4778556']
You might say, "But Fusion, aside from the unicorn topic, this club sticks to the main topic by lots of members, isn't awkward, and each post moves the issue forward" My response to that is this club is centered around [b]issues and other matters[/b] we'd like to fix or offer our opinions on, essentially a topic that involves debate and discussing an issue or point based on what everyone is saying. Debating moves a club forward and flows naturally into further topics/issues that isn't forced.
[/quote]
And why can't other threads have this?

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289541157' post='4778556']
My last point I want to make is about the main difference between an open thread for anyone to discuss in, and a club. Clubs have apps, or most of them do anyway. It requires you to either fill out information, although for some it does not. But the main point behind an app is requesting permission to join the conversation and the club. The fact that you are filling that app out is that you want to join this club/community to discuss Naruto or whatever. But most people should know by now (again, I foresee rebuttals, but wait), whether a noob or a veteran, that they should be seeking fun discussion in said clubs. In the mindset of a noob, they want to discuss a topic, list their opinions, and see if anyone approves, and if they do, then maybe establishing a bond through common interests. For veterans, they should know the gist with clubs and can expect off-topic discussion that normally occurs nowadays. For open discussion threads, you don't need permission to talk, you just speak out right. And you're not looking for friends, you're looking to get your opinion across and see how others react to it.
[/quote]
Clubs should be open discussion threads. Again when the B/W news was breaking I was posting in a few clubs I'd never posted in before to shair the breaking news. After that I followed the discussion a little and then forgot all about it. The point of the app is to show that you like the club and it's club and want to be an active member in it. It also lets those people go though what ever ranking system the club has and become major players in the clubs goings on.

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289541157' post='4778556']
I think the purpose of clubs is to form communities and friendships among members, something that open discussion threads cannot usually do. If someone wants to discuss Naruto [b]and only Naruto[/b], you shouldn't join the Akatsuki of YCM, you should just go to the Naruto thread in A&M. But if you want to discuss Naruto and other possible things related to it, join the Akatsuki. And eventually, when you know the members well enough, you'll feel comfortable talking about random things because you're not afraid of being shunned for an interest/perspective that only you possess.
[/quote]
But you can talk about anything that relates to it in the Naruto club. I've said so long as it has a clear tie I'm fine with people talking about Naruto videos games, card game, or contests.

[quote name='Fusion X. Denver' timestamp='1289541157' post='4778556']
If you think about it, Flame Dragon and whoever else is on your side, why do you think people are disagreeing with you?

I see these particular members and recognize they want to treasure and keep the threads that brought them their friends. They fear that limited discussion will take out the freedom that brought their friendship together. They feel as though their communities are being threatened.

What do I think about this? I think it serves the point that Clubs should be a section where people can discuss what they want as a part of a community. People who only want to talk about the main topic and just that can go discuss in other sections of the forum which have threads for that.

If Clubs are moved to Games, then fine, but I don't believe taking the essence of what has made YCM's communities what they are today away with stricter guidelines limiting this freedom will solve anything positively.
[/quote]
I understand this fully. When I first said this it was a half joke and do I still think this is crazy idea so I know full well that people won't like it. The fact that people have this much passion about this is making me think of less crazy idea of how to fix this section.

You think my wanting Naruto talk in a Naruto thread is strict?

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289571502' post='4778825']
Plus I have serious doubts that locking all clubs actually will do anything.
[/quote]
So do I, but doing nothing won't do anything either.

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289571502' post='4778825']
[b]1)[/b]You can say it's nessecery and all that, but honestly, even if you do lock the clubs and then impose stricter rules, what makes you think that people will follow them?

[b]2)[/b]However offtopic discussions happen almost by accident and no one really cares, meaning it is allot harder to restrain cause people both don't mind said problem (regardless if it's a problem) and the fact that it's a easy mistake to make.

[b]3)[/b]So after locking all the clubs, if anything clubs will be far harder to regulate not easier, they have to be more careful than they would believe and then you'd have to constantly lock clubs, then people are going to stop bothering about the rules since they are too hard to follow and it's going to be prohibition era YCM.

[b]4)[/b]Just cause a movie is restarted, why do you think it will play out differently?

Or why would playing at a harder diffuculty in a video game make you die less times?
[/quote]
1) If people start seeing that they are getting warns for breaking the rules then I hope they will learn that they so cut down on the random talk.

2) As I've said many time I get people aren't trying to get off topic. But at some point something hit them and make them think, "we just spent 200 posts talking about unicorns in a thread about bleach. maybe we should get back to bleach."

3) Also I'm not just going to go arund locking clubs (well I might at th start to show that the blade has come down). The whole point of my making the warn system for clubs was to let them to let me go "you should get on topic soon or this topic will be locked."

4) The fact tha things will be done differently makes me hope things will play out differently.


Also, I do know that doing something this big only as a blind hope isn't the best thing to do, but that's why this started at a joke. At the very least this is a crazy, if not interestig, idea and I've wanted to see how this might play out. Because it is clear that people are not happy about this I will try to think of other ways to go about this. Just remember that this idea IS still on the table, and all I'm doing is trying to bring more things to it. Also no matter what happens it's a very safe bet that the days of uncorn talk in pokemon threads is going the end.


FYI, I REALLY hate how quoting works.

[Nexev]

[quote name='Twig' timestamp='1289576907' post='4778905']
Their argument is that it will make the big clubs slow down/become inactive/look less "big"/not be successful.
[/quote]
TBH I don't really care as much about the nuke as the aftermath.

I have already expressed very little faith in a modship that has shown to make efforts to [i]ignore[/i] topics that they claim as bad.

If Flame sees a unicorn topic here and mentions that he decided to keep it going just to see how long it could go, it basically guarantees that nuking clubs is actually just a bluff of sorts. He is doing something big and scary to make it look like he shouldn't be messed with, that way people will be too scared to break rules.

This is vital because flame is incapable of actually working. If he refuses to so much as post a warning of caution in offending threads, why should it be assumed that he will suddenly take action after wiping out the section?

We have no idea what rules are being placed so how can I condone drastic action when the aftermath is so sketchy.

If rules were being enforced but clubs were incapable of cooperating I can understand why this solution can be considered nessecery.

However, I both:
1. Don't like the offtopic limit thing (What would seperate this club from simply posting in Suggestion if we could only talk about things that should be said in suggestions. Even if we are allowed to be a bit offtopic that works in other threads.

2. Have diffuculty in beliving that the pros of the lock will actually work. As Brush said awhile ago (and Flame confirmed) NOONE gets banned in clubs. I therefore think that we are jumping the gun and going about this the wrong way.

A blanket nuke would merely support resentment at authority within clubs, noone likes getting there work crushed and they are going to be pissed no matter what reason you have (notice for instance, most supporters of the blanket do not own active clubs and thus have no reason to be protective about them). While you can say said owners are being irrational by getting mad over said issue, they are still going to be upset.

Plus no respect or fear has been generated within C&O that would make people think they should comply. Rules have in the past (Don't bother denying this) been just a small pinned thread that noone really bothers going to. Nothing more. No one is going to label this as a sudden enforcement of rules or such insomuch as mods being weirdos.

You can change the rules, you can change the places, but you can't change users.




IF
a) We get a good reason for why offtopic conversations are maligent
Evidence that rules are actually going to be bothered to be enforced this time
c) A new mod who decides to patrol Clubs (Either a super who just promises to look over this place or a actual new mod) (optional)
d) A prototype of said rules that can be seen to see if they are reasonable (in that members are willing to follow it)


Then I'll back off.

If not then I really think this is a dumb idea that is going to backfire if nothing else.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289592340' post='4779339']
TBH I don't really care as much about the nuke as the aftermath.

I have already expressed very little faith in a modship that has shown to make efforts to [i]ignore[/i] topics that they claim as bad.

If Flame sees a unicorn topic here and mentions that he decided to keep it going just to see how long it could go, it basically guarantees that nuking clubs is actually just a bluff of sorts. He is doing something big and scary to make it look like he shouldn't be messed with, that way people will be too scared to break rules.
[/quote]
I understand this point very well. The aftermath is the part that needs to be worked on.

If that is talking about the unicorn posts, while you might not beleive me, I was going to step in after a while.

I'm not trying to seem big and scary. I'm come out and say the idea is crazy and even a little stupid, and that if I do want to see it happen it needs a lot of work done on it cause as is I know it will fail. Part of that was shown to me via all this talking because people were willing to mess with me and call me out. And by all right they should have.

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289592340' post='4779339']
This is vital because flame is incapable of actually working. If he refuses to so much as post a warning of caution in offending threads, why should it be assumed that he will suddenly take action after wiping out the section?

We have no idea what rules are being placed so how can I condone drastic action when the aftermath is so sketchy.

If rules were being enforced but clubs were incapable of cooperating I can understand why this solution can be considered nessecery.
[/quote]
While this is true for the most part, at one point a while ago I was putting some work into fixing things. That is why I remade the rules, cause I did want to do something. I even put together a warn system for clubs. Then I gave up because I couldn't really figure out how to fix everything in large scale. Part of the reason I'm not doing this now is because the idea of enforcing rules that have only sat there at this point doesn't sit well with me.

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289592340' post='4779339']
However, I both:
1. Don't like the offtopic limit thing (What would seperate this club from simply posting in Suggestion if we could only talk about things that should be said in suggestions. Even if we are allowed to be a bit offtopic that works in other threads.

2. Have diffuculty in beliving that the pros of the lock will actually work. As Brush said awhile ago (and Flame confirmed) NOONE gets banned in clubs. I therefore think that we are jumping the gun and going about this the wrong way.

A blanket nuke would merely support resentment at authority within clubs, noone likes getting there work crushed and they are going to be pissed no matter what reason you have (notice for instance, most supporters of the blanket do not own active clubs and thus have no reason to be protective about them). While you can say said owners are being irrational by getting mad over said issue, they are still going to be upset.

Plus no respect or fear has been generated within C&O that would make people think they should comply. Rules have in the past (Don't bother denying this) been just a small pinned thread that noone really bothers going to. Nothing more. No one is going to label this as a sudden enforcement of rules or such insomuch as mods being weirdos.

You can change the rules, you can change the places, but you can't change users.
[/quote]
1) Again, I know that is one of the problems with this idea. I do stand by the fact that it would still make this section different because it has so many different interests (Pokemon, Yugioh, Fanfics, etc) put into one. Also since you don't like that idea I assume you like how threads can swing from randomly from one topic to another and how 1 day can have 20 different things be taked about? At best I might say have 2 topics maybe Pokemon and Yugioh, in one club since part of my problem with the random swing is less and part of your problem with the tightness is gone.

2) Again I agree. But at this point do you think a sudden crack down on the rules will work? Part of the thing that made me think of this is that I don't and hat a fresh start might be easier. In thinking more about it this might not be the case. and why will I deny something I have said. I know the mods don't do anything with this section. It is something of a lawless zone and some mods really don't know how to start fixing things. The fact that a lot of that might end up coming down on them and them alone only makes it harder for them to think of things.

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289592340' post='4779339']
IF
a) We get a good reason for why offtopic conversations are maligent
Evidence that rules are actually going to be bothered to be enforced this time
c) A new mod who decides to patrol Clubs (Either a super who just promises to look over this place or a actual new mod) (optional)
d) A prototype of said rules that can be seen to see if they are reasonable (in that members are willing to follow it)


Then I'll back off.

If not then I really think this is a dumb idea that is going to backfire if nothing else.
[/quote]
a) It's not maligent, but it's simply chaotic. You need some order in how things are run.
b/c) Can I give you my word? Yea, i know that these are two of the biggest problem facing this section as a whole. Nothing can get done if no one is going to try to do it. I really only step in when I feel things have become really bad.
d) Um...the basic rule would be if your club is made to talk about Naruto talk about Naruto.


And because the more I've thought about it the crazier it seemed I cam up with a less extreem version that kind of does everything I want while also doing what you guys want.

Basic thing is still lock every club. Only they only stay locked for a couple week. After that everything reopens and things start a new.

Right now I'm hoping this plan will let people see things are going to change. This will also give people some cooling off time and when the threads reopen it can get something of a fresh start. While this is happening I'll make a thread saying the hammer is coming down and the rules will be enforced more. The club leader taking control of their club will also start and I hope that will make things easier for mods since they should be controling there club to some level. IMO the best thing about this idea and what makes it so much better then the first is that should this all fall though their is no problem. Side from a couple weeks of no posts it would just be back to normal as if that never happened.

Thoughts on this idea?

[Nexev]

It's a start I guess.

Thing is I am the types that like the extremly random conversations, and while you point out the selection of clubs that make Clubs unique, each club can only be about one thing, so does it really count. What makes a naruto club different from posting in a naruto thread on anime?

Also I have reasons to believe that having variety in topics is what allows clubs to have so many pages. Which may not be a good thing I guess but Clubs will be shotlived if they can't topic switch to keep a steady postcount flow.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote]
Uh...
[/quote]
For the first thing my message didn't come out right. For the second it's common for me to make miistakes while I post. I often forget a word, writing the wrong one, or forgetting the 't in can. I often catch it when I read over rmy posts, but since I'm not really doing that here, it got by and some one called me out on the mistake.

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289601732' post='4779757']
Thing is I am the types that like the extremly random conversations, and while you point out the selection of clubs that make Clubs unique, each club can only be about one thing, so does it really count. What makes a naruto club different from posting in a naruto thread on anime?
[/quote]
And I honestly hate it. And that's simple since I've said it a few times now. In Anime/Manga you can only talk about the Anime/Manga. Here you can talk about that plus the video games, the card game, cards you've made, fan fics, etc. You can only get one of those in the other sections but in a club so long as it ties in with Naruto it's fair game. .

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289601732' post='4779757']
Also I have reasons to believe that having variety in topics is what allows clubs to have so many pages. Which may not be a good thing I guess but Clubs will be shotlived if they can't topic switch to keep a steady postcount flow.
[/quote]
The reason why people ask what's going on so much in clubs is because they can't tell what's going on. They go into a Naruto club and read the last few pages only to see Bleach, Yugioh, and Unicorns they are going to be lost. The fact that if they are gone for a day they have 3 whole pages of that kind of topic movement only makes it worse. So long as the club has a good amount to talk about how can the topic be short lived? Being forced into a small box is not something that should be done and it's no something I'm trying to do. Topics like Pokemona dn One Piece are really open-ended and a lot can fill into those boxes.

[Amethyst Phoenix]

So we basically get screwed out of using clubs for a few weeks?



I'm still waiting for an idea that comes close to being good =/

[Clair]

I don't get why this is such a big deal to you, Flame.

You better make a poll in C&O before you even think of passing this order to destroy. ;_;

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Revolver Amethyst' timestamp='1289603868' post='4779878']
So we basically get screwed out of using clubs for a few weeks?

I'm still waiting for an idea that comes close to being good =/
[/quote]
Yes, because lossing a club for a week or two is going to kill you? Really is it that big an issue?

Why is it my job to think of everything. I can't. Yes I'm a mod, but even then it shouldn't fall on me and me alone to come up with ideas. Just saying no does nothing to fix the problem at hand. And yes i know this isn't a problem to you but it is to at least a few mods, two of them being the mods of this section, so clearly something is going to change because it's about time that it does. So please try to give me something to work with and come up with a few of your own ideas. I've shown that I'm listening.

@Clair
[quote=Flame Dragon]
Very basic time line I have
Nov 1st - Nov15th or 30th: Announce idea
Nov 16th to Dec 16th or Dec 1st to Dec 25th: Make poll about idea
Dec 17th or Dec 26th: Say if it's happening
Dec 31st: Should I go though with it all threads will be locked on this day
[/quote]
I posted that when this issue first started again. Did you really think this is the end? Please give me some credit. I know the idea was %#@$ insane and I know I can be at times, but most of the time I keep a level head. FYI, I've stopped liking the nuke idea since I made a better one that allows for a fail-safe.

[Nexev]

It's hard for us to come up with ideas when telling you to do nothing is the most favorable outcome for us.

But maybe we can compromise.


We can move threads right?

You move a bunch of clubs to a subsection of games (can you make subsections? Otherwise stuff will get confusing if Absolute powerforce is next to My hill). Then you warn people that clubs that can't stay on topic will be moved into said group or locked.

Everyone sortof wins.

We keep our clubs and freedom of movement, and the fact that you banished several clubs to games proves that you aren't f***ing around and you can manage the small clubs that stay on topic.


Good compromise or not?

[Flame Dragon]

I really like that idea to tbqh. Problem is getting a subsection for games. Only YCMaker (maybe Falling, idk) can and getting them to ok the idea is going to be a really hard sell.

[Nexev]

They made OOC, I think they won't mind.

Unless it's really hard to make subsections, that can very well be possible.

Anyway the admins are away aren't they?

[Clair]

Good to know that you're listening, Flame.

I really love Nex's idea. It [i]would[/i] take a lot of persuasion, however...

[MarbleZone]

So basically, the current suggestion is that we move some clubs but not others to a Games subsection? Based on what criteria?
And if they can't stay on-topic, why throw them in an improvised Recycle Bin of sorts instead of just locking them? They'll keep growing in the wrong place, we're not solving the problem, just hiding it from sight.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, which is entirely possible, I can't support that idea as it is. :/

And to answer Nexev, always assume the admins are away indefinitely. Because unfortunately, they tend to be.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289605664' post='4779964']
They made OOC, I think they won't mind.

Unless it's really hard to make subsections, that can very well be possible.

Anyway the admins are away aren't they?
[/quote]
They wre very much against Literature and it took a lot of pushing from the mods to get it. Also it's the same people that took 2 months to fix the pm glitch. So between them might not liking it and the fact that they move about as fast as sponges. It shouldn't be hard at all though.

I have no idea tbqh.

[quote name='Clair' timestamp='1289605685' post='4779965']
Good to know that you're listening, Flame.
[/quote]
While it might not have seemed like it I normally try to.

[Sploda]

Thank god I read Nexev's idea, otherwise I would have blown up over this.

I agree with Nexev, if we were to present this to YCMaker/Pizza together then I think they would implement it, especially if we point out all the issues it would fix.

[Nexev]

[quote name='MarbleZone' timestamp='1289605855' post='4779975']
So basically, the current suggestion is that we move some clubs but not others to a Games subsection? Based on what criteria?
And if they can't stay on-topic, why throw them in an improvised Recycle Bin of sorts instead of just locking them? They'll keep growing in the wrong place, we're not solving the problem, just hiding it from sight.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, which is entirely possible, I can't support that idea as it is. :/
[/quote]
Simple, they ask to be moved which is what lets them go to the rycycle bin thing.

If they choose to do freeflow they get to go to a place where no one minds the free flow.

If they want the one post counts but still spam, they get locked.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='TheCreator94' timestamp='1289606154' post='4779990']
Thank god I read Nexev's idea, otherwise I would have blown up over this.

I agree with Nexev, if we were to present this to YCMaker/Pizza together then I think they would implement it, especially if we point out all the issues it would fix.
[/quote]
Please do. I still want feed back on my ideas. Yes Nexev idea is the best for the members but th others are still on the table since we might not get the admins to ok and while I do like it does still feel like we're just sweeping the clubs under the rug in a way. I also think a good number of mods will feel this way.

[MarbleZone]

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289606181' post='4779991']
Simple, they ask to be moved which is what lets them go to the rycycle bin thing.

If they choose to do freeflow they get to go to a place where no one minds the free flow.

If they want the one post counts but still spam, they get locked.
[/quote]

So essentially we'll be taking this entire section and moving it to Games (since most people [i]want [/i]mindless free flowing chatter), and basically create a new C&O section where the handful of people that accept to play by the new rules will stay. I think we'd stay exactly where we are right now, to be honest, since the spam would keep growing elsewhere.

It's basically "Hey, did you like the old C&O? Well, in a way it still exists, just make you club over there if you don't want to stick to the new rules."

The issue here is that some people see a problem where others don't.
Mind you, we can easily just ignore this section altogether, which is kinda what's been happening till now. Is it catastrophic? Not at all, proof is it's probably the most active portion of the site. Does it continuously break countless rules that are applied in just about any forum? Oh hell yeah. It comes down to whether or not we allow C&O to be a collection of chat rooms or a collection of "team threads". Personally, I'd like it if "free flowing conversation" wasn't as free as "I'm done for tonight, 'night guys".

Of course, it'll take a while before we reach a consensus, but rest assured [i]nothing [/i]will be done until we reach one.

[Nexev]

Well games has post count disabled so if stuff is spamy it's not as much a big deal.

[CinnamonStar]

[quote name='Twig' timestamp='1289576907' post='4778905']
Their argument is that it will make the big clubs slow down/become inactive/look less "big"/not be successful.
[/quote]

But not if you post a link to the old thread right? And what's so bad about looking less successful, you PM the members when everything is back and that's it. If you managed to become so successful once then you will manage to rise again, I'm pretty sure about it.
If you want I can hire someone to make a huge banner announcement about the most successful clubs in the history of YCM with post count, members and whatnot.


[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289606127' post='4779988']
They wre very much against Literature and it took a lot of pushing from the mods to get it. Also it's the same people that took 2 months to fix the pm glitch. So between them might not liking it and the fact that they move about as fast as sponges. It shouldn't be hard at all though.

I have no idea tbqh.


While it might not have seemed like it I normally try to.
[/quote]

Result? Literature is dead.;__; I'm against the whole new sections idea...for reasons I mentioned before but I don't want to be put on repeat mode.:/

But no, I'm not for moving clubs to Games for a vague criteria, the ones that are like "let's make one-sentence jokes" can get moved for all I care, for the rest we need to figure out some new rules and methods to put into this section. Because going all Blitzkrieg without a plan to continue isn't a good idea (cf economy classes if you want to know what's supposed to come after the regression).

BUT I'd say let's try to figure out a solution for the aftermath. I'm going through the rules thread right now and seeing what should be done.
The first thing at hand is really to get a C&O-only mod, FD and the General mods should supervise the section as a reinforcement, not just do it on their own.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289607748' post='4780049']
Well games has post count disabled so if stuff is spamy it's not as much a big deal.
[/quote]
Like I said we're just hiding it. The problem is still there and it really doesn't solve it. While it might be best for the members from a mod view that isn't good.

[quote name='Opalmoon' timestamp='1289607942' post='4780053']
Result? Literature is dead.;__; I'm against the whole new sections idea...for reasons I mentioned before but I don't want to be put on repeat mode.:/
[/quote]
Yea, I know. That really just shows that not everything we want works.

[quote name='Opalmoon' timestamp='1289607942' post='4780053']
But no, I'm not for moving clubs to Games for a vague criteria, the ones that are like "let's make one-sentence jokes" can get moved for all I care, for the rest we need to figure out some new rules and methods to put into this section. Because going all Blitzkrieg without a plan to continue isn't a good idea (cf economy classes if you want to know what's supposed to come after the regression).

BUT I'd say let's try to figure out a solution for the aftermath. I'm going through the rules thread right now and seeing what should be done.
The first thing at hand is really to get a C&O-only mod, FD and the General mods should supervise the section as a reinforcement, not just do it on their own.
[/quote]
Yea, that's why I came up with my new idea. Any thoughts on it? It's not as blitzkrieg as the first so it's some what better.

Yea, this section needs it's own full time mod and that is the first thing sthat needs to be done.

[MarbleZone]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289608884' post='4780074']
Yea, this section needs it's own full time mod and that is the first thing sthat needs to be done.
[/quote]

Requested in the mod's forum, and I'd prefer that this particular topic didn't stay up for public discussion.

Everything else, please let's keep it up, we need the feeback.

[DL]

Hmm....I wonder.

Whether it's post countless or not, spam is spam, it looks bad on the site as a whole, like the slums of a city.

If post count was turned off in Clubs, people would tend to spam MORE, BECAUSE people don't care about spam that doesn't add +1 post count.


Also, Nex's idea...is good.

But...IDK, something seems weird about it.

I honestly think several mods looking over clubs (perhaps asign 1 mod for the four biggest clubs, and have them watch over those clubs, as well as the smaller ones from time to time, or the fast-growing ones)

A planned, ready-to-work staff is what we need for C&O, people who aren't too lazy to monitor a large club.

There are few clubs with more than 14000 or so post count, and if those are monitored for spam, I'm sure -

wait

brain working moment


4 mods monitor 4 largest clubs, one mod assigned per club

1 mod in charge of looking over the section for any clubs that break the "no clubs with anything as the topic" rules

2-3 mods in charge of looking over smaller clubs, for spam and such


It's not like there's a lack in members, or candidates, they don't all have to be the most amazing, top-choices, but if C&O DID have a staff of it's own, so to speak, then it would be MUCH cleaner.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Daisuke L. Hirako' timestamp='1289611268' post='4780158']
4 mods monitor 4 largest clubs, one mod assigned per club

1 mod in charge of looking over the section for any clubs that break the "no clubs with anything as the topic" rules

2-3 mods in charge of looking over smaller clubs, for spam and such


It's not like there's a lack in members, or candidates, they don't all have to be the most amazing, top-choices, but if C&O DID have a staff of it's own, so to speak, then it would be MUCH cleaner.
[/quote]
It take a lot just to get 1 mod added let alone the number you want. Then we run into the problem that some people think that topics jumping all over the place is a good thing. If some do it is safe to say many others also do. Finding people that don't think that might end up being harder then you'd think. Also my idea of "have club leaders be responible for their club" also works like that. Assuming they are doing what they should be doing they should be able to keep off-topic talk down a lot.

Also 2 or 3 people should be enough so long as 1 of them keeps with it and the others check in every now and then.

Also lets keep the mod talk down. Let us figure out what's happening with this and then we'll see where we're going to go from there.