YCMthropology

[Twig]

[quote name='Revolver Amethyst' timestamp='1289532163' post='4778333']
Using extreme examples to prove general trends is a good way to fail statistics.
[/quote]

Oh sorry. I'll just replace porn with *Insert topic here that belongs somewhere else besides general*.

[Nexev]

Look yes spam is against rules, but member groups that are about casual chat can't be said to have spam if everyone agrees to the convorsation.

It's not hard to get this, so why are you failing at it?

[Dark]

[quote name='Revolver Amethyst' timestamp='1289532461' post='4778343']
The definition of spam varies by context and setting.


Porn does not.
[/quote]

And we don't even have a definition for spam in C&O, pretty much. There are no enforced rules.

Meaning my post can consist of:

"agegeabg akg4ou2909v ib4uv 2ou4v e08he02nvu43chj2g9evhv8cih2bivbrovbks vvkbvkhqeb vi"

And you should be totally fine with that. And I don't see why that is considered spam in any regard. I understand it varies by context and setting, and I agree (to a point), but you cannot logically claim that any of that was spam. Since a definition of spam hasn't been given.

So enlighten me, what the hell do you want to consider as spam?

[quote name='Twig' timestamp='1289532471' post='4778344']
Oh sorry. I'll just replace porn with *Insert topic here that belongs somewhere else besides general*.
[/quote]

LET'S TALK ABOUT ANIME IN GENERAL.

AND POLITICS IN REALISTIC CARDS.

[i]but member groups that are about casual chat can't be said to have spam if everyone agrees to the convorsation.[/i]

Everyone? I can get a majority of the people to discuss unicorns. Can I discuss unicorns again so I don't need to debate a point that is undoubtedly right? :3

[.Starrk]

[quote name='Clair' timestamp='1289532013' post='4778323']
Disabling the post count in C&O would make everybody happy, it seems. Sure, it may take some extra work, but I'm pretty sure that there will be no repercussions whatsoever.

Most, if not all C&O members do not post in this section for the post count.
[/quote]

Not exactly. Although I don't go to C&O for post count, I still believe that most people will be unhappy if post count wouldn't count there.

[Nexev]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1289532613' post='4778352']
And we don't even have a definition for spam in C&O, pretty much. There are no enforced rules.

Meaning my post can consist of:

"agegeabg akg4ou2909v ib4uv 2ou4v e08he02nvu43chj2g9evhv8cih2bivbrovbks vvkbvkhqeb vi"

And you should be totally fine with that. And I don't see why that is considered spam in any regard. I understand it varies by context and setting, and I agree (to a point), but you cannot logically claim that any of that was spam. Since a definition of spam hasn't been given.

So enlighten me, what the hell do you want to consider as spam?

[/quote]
That's the problem.

No one has any idea what counts as spam so they basically just a label for "Things you don't like".

I have successfuly talked about bleach in a naruto club and no one minded, so what's wrong with that?


So if offtopic is spam then spam doesn't seem to be paticurally malignant.

[Amethyst Phoenix]

[quote name='Twig' timestamp='1289532471' post='4778344']
Oh sorry. I'll just replace porn with *Insert topic here that belongs somewhere else besides general*.
[/quote]

Anything else would be moved to the right section, not locked.


And that doesn't work on clubs, unless you think all clubs about anime should be moved to Anime and Manga or all clubs about games should be moved to video games.

Oh wait, it's because their status as a club supersedes their status as being an anime or videogame topic. By this same logic, would a club that you think is based around spam and stupid banter go in clubs (The spam and stupid banter section)?

Well unfortunately for you, their status as a club must supersede that as well to justify the first two examples.




"agegeabg akg4ou2909v ib4uv 2ou4v e08he02nvu43chj2g9evhv8cih2bivbrovbks vvkbvkhqeb vi"

Is random ass jibberish. You cannot translate it into another language either.

Unless you plan on creating your own language that somehow makes all of that translate into an actual sentence and then make a club about it, just to try and counter my argument to end up failing, I'd stop using that as your example all the time.


When your example deviates from what you are trying to demonstrate, it ceases being a valid example.

You should know this by now.

[Dark]

If you talk about Naruto in any non-Naruto thread in Anime, unless you are directly relating two characters from each anime, you are off-topic and are spamming. This is the generic threshold of spam for most non-RC forums on this website.

I don't understand why a drastic change in topic should be allowed in C&O. Again, I'm sure Flame Dragon will not be too strict. If your club is about anime, he'll let you talk about every anime available and probably get a bit off-topic and talk about mangas and literature and anime fanfiction. But the second you start talking about videogames, even if it was a free-flowing conversation, how can you not consider that spam? If you even mentioned video games in anime/manga (unless you did it in a way that related, like Touhou videogames) you'd be scolded for spamming. Why should the same not apply.

If you want to talk about anything and just have a good time with friends, go to Games and make a club there. But if you are discussing a legitimate topic and want to stay on that topic, come here. I understand that clubs get off-topic, but there should be a cutoff where free-flowing becomes off-topic. Do you understand?

This club was about YCM and its problems. Not about unicorns. Granted we probably would have been able to discuss other forums and whatnot perfectly fine, but I was warned by MarbleZone for talking about unicorns and whatnot in this club. Why? Because he, as the sole General mod, felt that I derailed the main topic of the club.

[Nexev]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1289533113' post='4778377']
If you talk about Naruto in any non-Naruto thread in Anime, unless you are directly relating two characters from each anime, you are off-topic and are spamming.[b] Duh, the thing is, no one CARED. Spamming is extremly overrated.[/b] This is the generic threshold of spam for most non-RC forums on this website.

I don't understand why a drastic change in topic should be allowed in C&O. Again, I'm sure Flame Dragon will not be too strict. If your club is about anime, he'll let you talk about every anime available and probably get a bit off-topic and talk about mangas and literature and anime fanfiction.[b]Ironically he stated he'd lock any clubs that are just about anime. So this actually doesn't work.[/b] But the second you start talking about videogames, even if it was a free-flowing conversation, how can you not consider that spam? If you even mentioned video games in anime/manga (unless you did it in a way that related, like Touhou videogames) you'd be scolded for spamming. Why should the same not apply.

If you want to talk about anything and just have a good time with friends, go to Games and make a club there. But if you are discussing a legitimate topic and want to stay on that topic, come here. I understand that clubs get off-topic, but there should be a cutoff where free-flowing becomes off-topic. Do you understand? [b]You know, since Flame refused to cut off the unicorn thing, I have a feeling that this isn't actually how it will work.[/b]

This club was about YCM and its problems. Not about unicorns. [b]Show of hands. Who liked the unicorn topic more? Swear to god I'm not alone here.[/b]Granted we probably would have been able to discuss other forums and whatnot perfectly fine, but I was warned by MarbleZone for talking about unicorns and whatnot in this club. Why? Because he, as the sole General mod, felt that I derailed the main topic of the club.
[/quote]

[Amethyst Phoenix]

Oh, so if we're comparing characters it's alright.


Here's an example:

In Organization XIII, we compared Sephiroth to Ulquiorra Schiffer.

That's on topic according to you.

Then a small Bleach discussion started by following the topic.


By your own logic, a lot of off-topicness is actually on topic/not bad.




Ah, I see how it is. You just realized how wrong you were and gave up.....then came back and started arguing again because you were butthurt over your warn that came as a result.

[Dark]

I don't know Flame's policies on anime clubs, but his logic is probably that anime discussion is best relegated to Anime/Manga where you always have a collection of people and you have all the threads on every anime in one place. And having it in a "club setting" changes nothing.

He was going along with the unicorn topic because it was proving a point that spam does exist in C&O, but apparently I wasn't spamming. MarbleZone thought differently.

The unicorn topic was more interesting, yes, but it wasn't on-topic. If the topic is allowed to constantly shift, [i]everything[/i] is on topic.

Let's talking about unicorns.
And animals.
And biology.
And science.
And religion.
And philosophers.
And old people.
And cavemen.
And the big bang.
And scientific theories.
And quantum physics.
And electrons.
...

When have I ever gotten off-topic?

[i]Oh, so if we're comparing characters it's alright.[/i]

I don't know much about anime, so let me put it into my terms.

If a club is on Pokemon, and someone makes a comparison between a Pokemon and Yugioh card, that does not mean the topic is allowed to shift to Yugioh.

That just means the one post made about Yugioh was on-topic because it related to Pokemon, the topic [b]of the club[/b]. <___<

[Nexev]

Flame said he'd lock any vague clubs, meaning we have to be specific, we can't have a anime club, it has to be a NARTUO club, and such.

So we have pretty much no leg room.

[Twig]

[quote name='Revolver Amethyst' timestamp='1289532881' post='4778367']
Anything else would be moved to the right section, not locked.

And that doesn't work on clubs, unless you think all clubs about anime should be moved to Anime and Manga or all clubs about games should be moved to video games.

Oh wait, it's because their status as a club supersedes their status as being an anime or videogame topic. By this same logic, would a club that you think is based around spam and stupid banter go in clubs (The spam and stupid banter section)?

Well unfortunately for you, their status as a club must supersede that as well to justify the first two examples.
[/quote]

You have already forgot the point I was trying to make. I was pointing out that the "official" description doesn't really mean that much.

Spam is against the rules. If there's a club that is based around spam, it should be locked. There's these things called exceptions. "I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right." ~Thoreau

[.Starrk]

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289533812' post='4778407']
Flame said he'd lock any vague clubs, meaning we have to be specific, we can't have a anime club, it has to be a NARTUO club, and such.

So we have pretty much no leg room.
[/quote]



Would powerforce be considered vague? Or Pikachu?

[Proto]

[quote name='Coyote Starrk' timestamp='1289534090' post='4778415']
Would powerforce be considered vague? Or Pikachu?
[/quote]
...Dude have you been following ANY of conversation.

OF COURSE POWERFORCE WOULD BE VAGUE!

[Amethyst Phoenix]

[quote name='Dark' timestamp='1289533648' post='4778402']
Let's talking about unicorns.
And animals.
And biology.
And science.
And religion.
And philosophers.
And old people.
And cavemen.
And the big bang.
And scientific theories.
And quantum physics.
And electrons.
[/quote]

Topic = Unicorns

*Unicorn discussion*

But Unicorns couldn't possibly be real animals! Well, it might be possible through weird genetics and adaptions...

*Biology discussion*

(Biology is a sub-section of science, so that was added as fluff!)

Well, maybe God created unicorns?

*religion discussion*

Well how are we supposed to interpret the bible? For example, this philosopher says the bible is completely metaphorical.

*philosopher discussion*

Philosophers are just old men!

*Old men discussion*

The bible was probably written by cavemen anyway >_>

*cavemen discussion*

I don't think the bible's real. Big Bang is what happened =/

*Big Bang discussion*

Well, I agree somewhat, but I believe in a different version of the Big Bang theory.

*Scientific Theories discussion*

Here's how I justify this version of the theory making sense

*quantum physics discussion*

I don't understand this part about the electrons, could you elaborate?

*Electrons discussion*





Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Please try again.

[.Starrk]

[quote name='ProtoMachineEmperor' timestamp='1289534151' post='4778417']
...Dude have you been following ANY of conversation.

OF COURSE POWERFORCE WOULD BE VAGUE!
[/quote]


Sorry Proto I haven't read the whole thing yet.

[Nexev]

[quote name='Twig' timestamp='1289534001' post='4778413']
You have already forgot the point I was trying to make. I was pointing out that the "official" description doesn't really mean that much.

Spam is against the rules. If there's a club that is based around spam, it should be locked. There's these things called exceptions. "I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the right. The only obligation which I have a right to assume is to do at any time what I think right." ~Thoreau
[/quote]
The problem is, while exceptions do exist, that is different from our point.

See NO menber groups are apperantly allowed, which is against the offical description, meaning it is against the point of the reason for clubs being there.


There is subjective interpretaion and there is contradictions.

This is one of the latter.

[Proto]

[quote name='Coyote Starrk' timestamp='1289534282' post='4778420']
Sorry Proto I haven't read the whole thing yet.
[/quote]
Oh no problem bro, just remember to read conversations before you post in them.

Comprehendo Bro?

[.Starrk]

[quote name='ProtoMachineEmperor' timestamp='1289534575' post='4778429']
Oh no problem bro, just remember to read conversations before you post in them.

Comprehendo Bro?
[/quote]


Si. Mi mucho comprende.

[Amethyst Phoenix]

Exactly.

"Spam" in clubs that ends up being enjoyable and hurts nobody is one such exception.



Also, Thoreau got arrested for not paying a poll tax and whined about the Mexican-American War, a war whose favorable results has James K. Polk as one of the top 10 presidents in virtually all presidential rankings conducted via both popular poll and historian's studies

[Twig]

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289534502' post='4778427']
The problem is, while exceptions do exist, that is different from our point.

See NO menber groups are apperantly allowed, which is against the offical description, meaning it is against the point of the reason for clubs being there.

[b]With your logic, NO video game threads are apparently allowed in general; which is against the official description, meaning it is against the point of the reason for general being there.
[/b]
[/quote]

And I when I was mentioning exceptions, I was talking to Ammy and his logic that clubs about spam shouldn't need to go to Games since being a club supersedes the fact that it is based around spam.

@Ammy: The quote means that you should do what's right first, then follow the rules. Spam is clearly against the rules, yet a club about spam is protected from being moved to games just because it's a club according to Ammy. The right thing to do is to move it to games. It won't hurt anybody, like you said.

I mentioned Thoreau because he did what he believed what was right, even if what he thought was right wasn't so right. *Insert mod here* can do what he/she thinks is right.

Edit: I gtg to sleep. Bye everyone. Have a nice day with rainbows and unicorns. =D

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Revolver Amethyst' timestamp='1289531627' post='4778311']
[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/az8ar6.png[/IMG]
Unless you'd like to take this to a new level of absurdity by claiming the creator of the website's official description is invalid.
[/quote]
You can read YCMaker mind? Unless you can you have no idea what he ment by that. It could be what I'd call it, it could be what your calling it, or it could be something else. You have no idea what is means by that.

[quote name='Revolver Amethyst' timestamp='1289531627' post='4778311']
Even if you did, that would require the use of what is essentially the "evolving topic" idea I put forth earlier. However, agreeing with said idea would contradict just about all your reasons for nuking C&O and bringing stricter rules down on it, because that idea is the very same one that says a club can eventually evolve past it's original topic and still remain great if not better.


You are, from a logical perspective, quite simply screwed.
[/quote]
Topics about One Piece should stay talking about One Piece. I don't care it they talk about the manga/anime/fanfic/charcters/tropes/video game/etc so long as it has some clear tie to the series it's fine.

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289532828' post='4778365']
That's the problem.

No one has any idea what counts as spam so they basically just a label for "Things you don't like".

I have successfuly talked about bleach in a naruto club and no one minded, so what's wrong with that?


So if offtopic is spam then spam doesn't seem to be paticurally malignant.
[/quote]
And that's why we have mods. The define what's ok and what isn't. At the end of the day when all of this ends odds are that is what it's going to come to.

[quote name='Revolver Amethyst' timestamp='1289533606' post='4778400']
Oh, so if we're comparing characters it's alright.


Here's an example:

In Organization XIII, we compared Sephiroth to Ulquiorra Schiffer.

That's on topic according to you.

Then a small Bleach discussion started by following the topic.


By your own logic, a lot of off-topicness is actually on topic/not bad.

[/quote]
No it's off topic, but so long as it's short and you get back to SE I'm not going to do anything. It say in the rules damn it and from what I can tell no one reads them or even things I post in this thread. I understand topic drift, it happens. But so long as you get back on your main course and don't spend 2 pages doing it I'll be happy.

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289533812' post='4778407']
Flame said he'd lock any vague clubs, meaning we have to be specific, we can't have a anime club, it has to be a NARTUO club, and such.

So we have pretty much no leg room.
[/quote]
The reason I would put such a rule on that is it gives way to much space. Things like anime and video games are HUGE topics and many, many, many things can fit. I'd rather have those broken down into smaller groups. Hell if it was something like the FPS club it might work. Also I never said I would. i simply said that if it became a problem I could ban them.

And how do you have no leg room. Naruto has it's Anime, Manga, Video Games, Card Game, Characters, Fan Fics, Tropes, etc. That is a lot in my book. And really sometimes having less to work with is a good thing.

[quote name='Revolver Amethyst' timestamp='1289534205' post='4778419']
Topic = Unicorns

*Unicorn discussion*

But Unicorns couldn't possibly be real animals! Well, it might be possible through weird genetics and adaptions...

*Biology discussion*

(Biology is a sub-section of science, so that was added as fluff!)

Well, maybe God created unicorns?

*religion discussion*

Well how are we supposed to interpret the bible? For example, this philosopher says the bible is completely metaphorical.

*philosopher discussion*

Philosophers are just old men!

*Old men discussion*

The bible was probably written by cavemen anyway >_>

*cavemen discussion*

I don't think the bible's real. Big Bang is what happened =/

*Big Bang discussion*

Well, I agree somewhat, but I believe in a different version of the Big Bang theory.

*Scientific Theories discussion*

Here's how I justify this version of the theory making sense

*quantum physics discussion*

I don't understand this part about the electrons, could you elaborate?

*Electrons discussion*





Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Please try again.
[/quote]
It's not to me. Really before you are even half way down that list the topic would have lost sight of what it was made for.

[quote name='Nexev' timestamp='1289534502' post='4778427']
The problem is, while exceptions do exist, that is different from our point.

See NO menber groups are apperantly allowed, which is against the offical description, meaning it is against the point of the reason for clubs being there.


There is subjective interpretaion and there is contradictions.

This is one of the latter.
[/quote]
No, it comes down to what you call member groups. Also maybe that's just an out dated description?

And from the way I read it you seem to think lossing how does lossing member groups make clubs useless.

And with that I will go off again because I it doesn't look like this isn't getting any where and I have other things I should be doing.

[Fusion X. Denver]

I just read all the posts from today, just so no one thinks I'm jumping into the convo without knowing what's been discussed.
Below are my opinion and thoughts on the matter of clubs. Be warned as it is REALLY long, and that if you're going to read it, [b]don't skim please[/b], but read it all the way through, or else you may miss a vital point, or something that covers a supposed flaw in my logic.
I really don't want to see any "tl;dr's", I spent a lot of time and thought writing this.
[spoiler=My longest post ever]
I saw Nexev point out the member groups thing.
Which got me thinking.
What is the point of clubs?
I own a Naruto club. But if there is already a thread about Naruto in Anime & Manga, why should I bother having this club when I can discuss it there?
If you look around, all clubs have a topic that's discussed in other sections of the forum.
Video game clubs like Club Pikachu, Pokemon can simply be discussed in Video Games.
Clubs for every anime, they can all be discussed in Anime & Manga.
Clubs about politics and current events, or issues in the world, don't those usually show up in General or Debate? (I'll admit this is the weak point of my argument, but then again, this forum is a kid's site. I'm sure those types of clubs are not very common.)

So I ask you, what is the point of C&O?
It's about clubs and member groups of course! (inb4statingtheobvious)
I'll use Akatsuki of YCM for an example.
Its founder, Aa'une's Apprentice (now Deidara's Blackwing) gathered people he knew from various sections and formed the Akatsuki by inviting them to join. We boomed off into discussion of Naruto for a good long while. Then eventually, we diverted off topic and began to discuss other things.
Why is this? Surely these members should know better than to "spam"?

It's simple really.
They want to get to know each other more.
When you have a nice discussion or debate with someone that captures your interest into talking with them, wouldn't you want to know more about them? To see if you have anything else in common, or if they have similar views on issues as you do?
What I'm getting at, and what I personally think makes clubs clubs, is it forms a bond between its members.
Of friendship, especially because it allows the freedom to do so that open discussion threads cannot. (Cue corny mood/friendship speech)

You see, in the Anime & Manga Naruto thread, I see members discuss the new chapter every week when released, and the occasional discussion during the week discussing other aspects of the anime and manga. But that's it. It's members conversing together about the one topic, and that's it.
If you look in Akatsuki, we do the same thing. When we're done and nothing more is said, we turn to something else to keep talking with one another.
You see, I'll say again, I believe the purpose of C&O is to make friends. This is done by forming a club that has a common interest that brings people together. Once this is done, these members can discuss other things and interests, leading to bonds of friendship, hatred, or neutrality.

I've made very good friends on this site through clubs. I trust these people and look forward to talking to them each day. Hell, I actually [i]want[/i] to meet these people in real life because I feel close to them. Sorry if I'm beginning to sound creepy/weird, but this is the extent of the impact clubs have brought to me by helping me make all these friends.

And back to the member groups thing, I believe a club and member group can become the same thing. The Akatsuki of YCM, aside from Ice and Nexev, we're all Narutards and love the show. It's an interest that brought us together, and it doesn't stop us from retaining our individual personalities and own interests. And why did Ice and Nexev join Akatsuki when they despise Naruto? (The following is my conjecture and may be proven wrong by Ice and Nexev) They enjoyed discussion with our members in other clubs they were both in, and decided to join Akatsuki to talk more with these members or possibly get to know other members that have been alluded to or mentioned before.

In Akatsuki, I see joyful (or not so joyful) discussion between members, and in the A&M Naruto thread, I see sole professional discussion about it.
I suppose my main stance on Clubs is that when you join a club, you can certainly expect to discuss the "main topic" with its members, but you should also know that being off-topic isn't a bad thing (I foresee rebuttals being made here, but hear me out) because it leads to finding more common interests or drawing people into the conversation.
A perfect example is the member Chaos Sonic.
He joined Akatsuki, and not long after, he witnessed Daisuke L. Hirako, El Make, and I get into an argument that was half-joking (which we do because we're friends, we mess with each other).
His reaction?
He became interested in our antics and seemed to joyously ask Black and us if we're always like this. And like that, a new friendship was made, and Chaos Sonic eventually earned a spot in El Make's bio of his friends (which is hard to achieve)

Clubs can start off with a main topic sure, and should always return to it, but these clubs, after reaching a certain point, or almost right away, become a specific group of members.
[b]A community.[/b]
Akatsuki of YCM is where my best friends on here are. Most of us are Narutards, have our differences, and were brought together because of Naruto.
Absolute Powerforce, everyone in there is good friends with one another. All the members are active, have discovered similar interests, and they all discuss them. PLUS, when someone goes off-topic in said community, other members are willing to talk about it because they're interested in things their friend has to say or share.

You see, I have seen clubs that stick to the main topic and only the main topic. It's very strict on spam and off-topic posts and allows only on-topic discussion. A few posts or a page is made, then people run out of things to say. This either stifles the conversation and leaves the thread dead for a while, or the owner has to post a new topic for members to discuss, and only that. It all feels awkward and stiff.
You might say, "But Fusion, aside from the unicorn topic, this club sticks to the main topic by lots of members, isn't awkward, and each post moves the issue forward" My response to that is this club is centered around [b]issues and other matters[/b] we'd like to fix or offer our opinions on, essentially a topic that involves debate and discussing an issue or point based on what everyone is saying. Debating moves a club forward and flows naturally into further topics/issues that isn't forced.

My last point I want to make is about the main difference between an open thread for anyone to discuss in, and a club. Clubs have apps, or most of them do anyway. It requires you to either fill out information, although for some it does not. But the main point behind an app is requesting permission to join the conversation and the club. The fact that you are filling that app out is that you want to join this club/community to discuss Naruto or whatever. But most people should know by now (again, I foresee rebuttals, but wait), whether a noob or a veteran, that they should be seeking fun discussion in said clubs. In the mindset of a noob, they want to discuss a topic, list their opinions, and see if anyone approves, and if they do, then maybe establishing a bond through common interests. For veterans, they should know the gist with clubs and can expect off-topic discussion that normally occurs nowadays. For open discussion threads, you don't need permission to talk, you just speak out right. And you're not looking for friends, you're looking to get your opinion across and see how others react to it.

I'm going to guess people will say I'm saying the same thing in the previous paragraph behind motives of people for open discussion threads and clubs. In all honesty, the only thing I can say to rebut that is you need to look at it from the perspective of someone who frequents clubs, although I can tell this point will be used against me by those that are skeptical. Which we can discuss later. But there's more to this.

I think the purpose of clubs is to form communities and friendships among members, something that open discussion threads cannot usually do. If someone wants to discuss Naruto [b]and only Naruto[/b], you shouldn't join the Akatsuki of YCM, you should just go to the Naruto thread in A&M. But if you want to discuss Naruto and other possible things related to it, join the Akatsuki. And eventually, when you know the members well enough, you'll feel comfortable talking about random things because you're not afraid of being shunned for an interest/perspective that only you possess.

If you think about it, Flame Dragon and whoever else is on your side, why do you think people are disagreeing with you?

I see these particular members and recognize they want to treasure and keep the threads that brought them their friends. They fear that limited discussion will take out the freedom that brought their friendship together. They feel as though their communities are being threatened.

What do I think about this? I think it serves the point that Clubs should be a section where people can discuss what they want as a part of a community. People who only want to talk about the main topic and just that can go discuss in other sections of the forum which have threads for that.

If Clubs are moved to Games, then fine, but I don't believe taking the essence of what has made YCM's communities what they are today away with stricter guidelines limiting this freedom will solve anything positively. [/spoiler]

[Nexev]

What fusion said.

Plus I have serious doubts that locking all clubs actually will do anything.

You can say it's nessecery and all that, but honestly, even if you do lock the clubs and then impose stricter rules, what makes you think that people will follow them?

Advanced clause got brocken all the time and people got annoyed at people who didn't follow said clasue even before it was made (because they thought said people were idiots).

However offtopic discussions happen almost by accident and no one really cares, meaning it is allot harder to restrain cause people both don't mind said problem (regardless if it's a problem) and the fact that it's a easy mistake to make.

So after locking all the clubs, if anything clubs will be far harder to regulate not easier, they have to be more careful than they would believe and then you'd have to constantly lock clubs, then people are going to stop bothering about the rules since they are too hard to follow and it's going to be prohibition era YCM.

Just cause a movie is restarted, why do you think it will play out differently?

Or why would playing at a harder diffuculty in a video game make you die less times?

[CinnamonStar]

Eh...I read through most of the posts in fast mode but got to admit, I didn't read everything because most of it was repeating stuff and I can't quote everyone so...

Whoever said that before, I'm not against the idea itself, don't know about the other mods but I don't think it's so bad, at the core. But I really see it coming that the clubs get locked, everyone gets butthurt about it and after that? Everything will just continue like before. Because there's no guarantee that after the make-over, anything will be better.

And please get that "new section for everything" out of your system guys.:/ Everyone was begging and striking for a Multimedia section, and now guess what? Anything other than video games is empty. Dead. No one cares about Literature even though people started ridiculous strikes to get it.

You see, that's a part of the ego thing I was mentioning. Not about Flame Dragon because he admitted that his idea was madness and I'm not sure how much he likes it himself, but all of this "IMA BE PROTESTING" that happens on YCM is mostly just pushing your own ego. It's great to give out suggestions but like with Literature, some people started a big movement mostly so that they can say later that it was only due to [i]their[/i] effort, that they made something happen (hooray~) and that they can something to their fictional "did important stuff on the Internet" list. Sorry it's kind of off-point but it's how it works here.
So let the new sections aside please, unless we have good arguments that it's really going to be worth it.=/

About the nukefield idea, I [i]would[/i] be for it if you have clear and decent plans about how you're going to make this section better. Because just making people mad and shutting a forum down, but continuing on the same line isn't useful at all.
And I'm working on it because I want to request getting moved back to C&O in the mods forum.
There, more butthurt.

tl;dr: Idea is ok but if you have no plans on how to make it better after that, then there's not much point in doing it. That's the only thing I'm scared about.


[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289529076' post='4778236']
That's a common mistake I make when I type. I think can't but only write can, isn't but write is, you get where I'm going. But yea, it shouldn't be harder to figure out that was what I meant since I've said it 100 other times in this thread.

Um no I didn't. The first one was me screwing up on my message and the second was my hands not typing what my brain was thinking.
[/quote]

Uh...


[quote name='Clair' timestamp='1289521215' post='4777858']
If you nuke this place, it is true that everybody will get a fresh start.

However, i doubt you will get enough regular mods to consistently watch out for spam, due to the crazy amount of posting that goes on.

You are not a club owner. You do not know the feeling of owning a club, building it up, and watching other members flock to it, based on the community you have built.

Please consider the wishes and pleas of the current club owners in C&O.
[/quote]

Well that's a valid point actually.
On the other side, I'd just like to ask, would it really make you guys angry if a club was shut down but you can just continue posting in a new thread and link to the old one? Just curious.


[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289536680' post='4778475']
You can read YCMaker mind? Unless you can you have no idea what he ment by that. It could be what I'd call it, it could be what your calling it, or it could be something else. You have no idea what is means by that.


Topics about One Piece should stay talking about One Piece. I don't care it they talk about the manga/anime/fanfic/charcters/tropes/video game/etc so long as it has some clear tie to the series it's fine.


And that's why we have mods. The define what's ok and what isn't. At the end of the day when all of this ends odds are that is what it's going to come to.


No it's off topic, but so long as it's short and you get back to SE I'm not going to do anything. It say in the rules damn it and from what I can tell no one reads them or even things I post in this thread. I understand topic drift, it happens. But so long as you get back on your main course and don't spend 2 pages doing it I'll be happy.


The reason I would put such a rule on that is it gives way to much space. Things like anime and video games are HUGE topics and many, many, many things can fit. I'd rather have those broken down into smaller groups. Hell if it was something like the FPS club it might work. Also I never said I would. i simply said that if it became a problem I could ban them.

And how do you have no leg room. Naruto has it's Anime, Manga, Video Games, Card Game, Characters, Fan Fics, Tropes, etc. That is a lot in my book. And really sometimes having less to work with is a good thing.


It's not to me. Really before you are even half way down that list the topic would have lost sight of what it was made for.


No, it comes down to what you call member groups. Also maybe that's just an out dated description?

And from the way I read it you seem to think lossing how does lossing member groups make clubs useless.

And with that I will go off again because I it doesn't look like this isn't getting any where and I have other things I should be doing.
[/quote]

Listen to him. LISTEN TO HIM, that's exactly the point.D:
Look the definition of spam is often vague and sometimes it's hard to determine what is spam and what not, in any section. And yet most people understand why a person gets warned and what constitutes a spammer on this site. When a new member signed up and he's spamming, and you know he's spamming, he's annoying everyone, even though you can't find a perfect technical explanations of why his posts are spam, just a vague one, and at the end of the day, no one questions why he gets banned.

I think it's a kind of case-by-case basis. Some of us are good at recognizing it, others aren't, I remember that when I became a mod of General the first time here, I wasn't so great at it and I took everything ridiculously seriously. But usually with experience, anyone who's a mod and/or who's been on a site for a long time will learn to make the difference between spam and just drifting off-topic, between reasonable off-topicness and just downright trolling. I can give you examples, pictures, everything, and I'm sure you'll all pretty much agree that this is spam and this isn't.

I'm not really a fan of this all-strict section idea. Sure if you start a club about One Piece, then stay [i]mostly[/i] on One Piece, a few drifts here and there won't harm anyone. But if you start asking "what are we talking about", "uh...no idea", "kk what's the topic?" on every page or if you use your club to gossip about members in a negative way (it all happened, I'm not just inventing), then that's not what the forum is about, it's the PM system that is there for it.
But I still think it should be ok to make a club about friendships, not all of us have the guts to PM everyone and ask "wanna be friends?". Some place that helps newbies is also great too. But yeah if you're working on a club project, like cards, then keep the club about it.

EDIT: DEAR GOD I TRY TO BE FAST @_@