YCMthropology

[Blake]

I'm going by YOUR logic. First come, most important!

1. It's easier so just do it? Riiiight.
2. Then why make it a poll? Why not just a thread in General/Suggestions?

What Mods? there was YOU, Dark, and Twig, and a few others that said yes, once.

Icy is against you, as is Opal, and Roxas too. Then there's myself, Jake, Revolver, Ice, Nex, CC, FTW, and more. That's a lot more than you have.

It proves things ARE fine. People are enjoying themselves on the internet, and they are not harming anyone in an way. General gets off topic, too. Polls turn into convos. I've seen some Card threads turn into convos. The list goes on.

Disable post count, if you think it's so bad! If it takes time, at least it gets done.

[quote name='Smesh' timestamp='1289520071' post='4777801']
Pros:

All threads get a fresh start
Rules can be enforced easier
New clubs could be the next Powerforce

Cons:

Members have to restart

I don't see any cons besides that. You keep your post count.
[/quote]
Biased list is biased.

Fresh start is not good. Kills bigger clubs.
Rules will NOT be easier. At all. There will still be a ton of clubs.
So? That can happen NOW.

Cons:
Clubs that are big look small and useless, especially if they slowed down.
Many people will not remake/will flame and raeg and whatnot.
Even more "MODS SUCK!" things everywhere.

[Amethyst Phoenix]

Disregarding how horrible I still think the nuke idea is and the argument I could make about how Dark's attempt to prove me wrong eventually proved me right, there is something that needs to be said:


Flame Dragon, if you make said poll about whether to go through with it or not, the only votes that should count are people that are active in clubs.

And they should NOT be allowed to loophole this by making a brand new club just to validate their votes.



And yes, it would probably be a lot of work to check that every voter is active in clubs. However, considering the fate of an entire section is in the balance (plus, it's kind of the mods' job to ensure things like this remain fair), it would be necessary work.

[Clair]

If you nuke this place, it is true that everybody will get a fresh start.

However, i doubt you will get enough regular mods to consistently watch out for spam, due to the crazy amount of posting that goes on.

You are not a club owner. You do not know the feeling of owning a club, building it up, and watching other members flock to it, based on the community you have built.

Please consider the wishes and pleas of the current club owners in C&O.

[Ice.]

The funny thing is, Flame is outnumbered. Besides, since this whole forum is in jeopardy, shouldn't this go through the mod forum? And if it were to go through it, there would already be 3 mods against it.

[Smesh]

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
Fresh start is not good. Kills bigger clubs. [b]ono[/b]
Rules will NOT be easier. At all. There will still be a ton of clubs. [b]Explain[/b]
So? That can happen NOW. [b]Yes it can, but I'm just saying.[/b]

Cons:
Clubs that are big look small and useless, especially if they slowed down. [b]ono[/b]
Many people will not remake/will flame and raeg and whatnot. [b]ono[/b]
Even more "MODS SUCK!" things everywhere. [b][s]Haters gonna hate[/s] So? They can get over it.[/b]
[/quote]

Im not [i]fully[/i] for the idea, but I don't see why not.

[Clair]

[quote name='Smesh' timestamp='1289521367' post='4777871']
Im not [s]fully[/s] for the idea, but I don't see why not.
[/quote]

Don't counter Black's arguments with "ono". It makes you look like an immature poster who can't come up with a counter. I can understand. Black's points are completely valid and should be put into thought.

... What do you have against Clubs, Smesh?

[Blake]

Smesh, you just said no to things that HAVE happened/will happen

The Raeging/Flaming happened at the Adv. Clause.
Big clubs WILL look small and worhtless (Trust me, remakes were like that)
The clubs will be remade, and new ones will too!
It can happen now, so your point is MOOT.

[Smesh]

[quote name='Clair' timestamp='1289521563' post='4777879']
... What do you have against Clubs, Smesh?
[/quote]

Nothing. I just don't see why people are so against this. I could understand people being against it, but I don't see why they're saying "NO. IT'S STUPID. WORST IDEA EVER, FLAME"

[Ice.]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289519979' post='4777797']
Simple because a club that was trying to do something some what serious became a thread about something as stupid as rainbows, NASCAR, and unicorns. That proves things are NOT fine.

Also please tell me how it's ok for a section to allow people in [b]a thread about YCM [/b]to talk about Unicorns when EVERY other section on the forum would have that member warned for spamming.
[/quote]

[quote]I for some reason am interested in YCM members, mods, etc. I can't be the only one, can I? So I set this up. YCMthropology - the study of YCM members.

Here we talk about YCM, it's members, issues with YCM, and so on. [b]Although, general discussion is allowed.[/b][/quote]

It's not just about YCM.

Logic flaw.

[Clair]

[quote name='Smesh' timestamp='1289522155' post='4777923']
Nothing. I just don't see why people are so against this. I could understand people being against it, but I don't see why they're saying "NO. IT'S STUPID. WORST IDEA EVER, FLAME"
[/quote]

We aren't [i]flaming[/i]. We're just taking our stances in a very serious argument, at least in most club owner's eyes.

I want to keep my club like you want to earn a mod position.

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
I'm going by YOUR logic. First come, most important!
[/quote]
That has never been my logic.

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
1. It's easier so just do it? Riiiight.
[/quote]
What's easier? Making the thread? Closing all the clubs? What

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
2. Then why make it a poll? Why not just a thread in General/Suggestions?
[/quote]
Because I want to also get a glancing idea as well as the text responses. It's all for my own use so does it matter?

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
What Mods? there was YOU, Dark, and Twig, and a few others that said yes, once.
[/quote]
Does it matter if they said it once? MarbleZone was for the idea too. As was Daft Innovation, Smesh, Izanagi, Anbu-of-Sand, Daisuke L. Hirako, NeoDemonX were also for it.

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
Icy is against you, as is Opal, and Roxas too. Then there's myself, Jake, Revolver, Ice, Nex, CC, FTW, and more. That's a lot more than you have.
[/quote]
I don't remember Icy, Opal or FTW taking a side. If they did I can't find the post.

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
It proves things ARE fine. People are enjoying themselves on the internet, and they are not harming anyone in an way. General gets off topic, too. Polls turn into convos. I've seen some Card threads turn into convos. The list goes on.
[/quote]
But none of that should be happening. Also the levels here are much greater here then any where else.

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
Disable post count, if you think it's so bad! If it takes time, at least it gets done.
[/quote]
I can't turn off post count. And as I said back then YCMaker won't turn off intros post count so their isn't a snowballs chance in hell of it happening

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
Biased list is biased.
[/quote]
And yours isn't?

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
Fresh start is not good. Kills bigger clubs.
Rules will NOT be easier. At all. There will still be a ton of clubs.
So? That can happen NOW.
[/quote]
And they won't go back to being big because?
Please read what I'm writing. I will make club leaders responsible for their clubs so they will be enforcing the rules.
It's hard for new clubs to get big.

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
Clubs that are big look small and useless, especially if they slowed down.
Many people will not remake/will flame and raeg and whatnot.
Even more "MODS SUCK!" things everywhere.
[/quote]
Um how do they look useless is EVERY other thread is the same size. Big and Small is all relative. A thread with a 100 posts is big when the others are around 35 but small next to 100. Why would they slow down. They should just pick up where they left off.
People will rage and flame if we started cracking down the way I want.
The same as above, only it will be Flame Dragon sucks since this is all my idea. It's only my con and I don;t care if it serves the greater good.

[Smesh]

[quote name='Clair' timestamp='1289522340' post='4777935']
We aren't [i]flaming[/i]. We're just taking our stances in a very serious argument, at least in most club owner's eyes.

I want to keep my club like you want to earn a mod position.
[/quote]

I meant Flame Dragon.

[Proto]

Ice... can you at least do SOMETHING besides pointing out logic flaws that make no difference to the conversation!

This isn't Phoenix Wright you know, this is a serious conversation about the possible destruction and reconstruction of a section you visit often.

So would you kindly use those little detective skills to find something IMPORTANT!

[Ice.]

Proto, I find a logic flaw, he edits his crap, more flaws and so on.

But if you insist.

The little subcaption says Member Groups, implying that we don't have to have Fan-Clubs based on a single topic.

[quote name='Clair' timestamp='1289522340' post='4777935']
We aren't [i]flaming[/i]. We're just taking our stances in a very serious argument, at least in most club owner's eyes.

I want to keep my club [b]like you want to earn a mod position.[/b]
[/quote]

Which is probably why he's for it. He's trying to kiss a super's ass, in my opinion.

And by FLAME, he meant Flame Dragon. Not flaming.

[FTW (For The Wynn)]

I haven't taken a side yet. I believe I said I was waiting to see how this unfolds and to hear more info from both sides before I made up my mind. Both sides have valid points.

[Smesh]

[quote name='Ice' timestamp='1289522513' post='4777947']
Which is probably why he's for it. He's trying to kiss a super's ass, in my opinion.

And by FLAME, he meant Flame Dragon. Not flaming.
[/quote]

I hadn't even thought about the position in this whole argument.

I'm thinking of being neutral on the subject. I have reasons for and against the revamp.

For: Fresh start, and easier to enforce rules (If we get some mods and supers to do their part)

Against: Not completely neccessary. Post count could just be disabled.

[Jake the Sage]

I agree with disabeling the post count. Also I personally believe that restarting the entire club threads wouldn't work. All that would happen, despite Mod intervention, is that people would simply reopen the threads again.

[Blake]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289522408' post='4777939']
That has never been my logic.
[b]Hasn't it?[/b]

What's easier? Making the thread? Closing all the clubs? What
[b]Making a poll. But, closing the clubs applies too.[/b]

Because I want to also get a glancing idea as well as the text responses. It's all for my own use so does it matter?


Does it matter if they said it once? MarbleZone was for the idea too. As was Daft Innovation, Smesh, Izanagi, Anbu-of-Sand, Daisuke L. Hirako, NeoDemonX were also for it.
[b]And where have they been? Izanagi is not a club goer, Daft is not so mcuh fro mwhat I've seen, Anbu is rare, DL is DL, NeoDemonX is never here, and Smesh is rarely here. Marble was the only other mod.[/b]

I don't remember Icy, Opal or FTW taking a side. If they did I can't find the post.
[b]Opal stated she did not like your plan. Icy retorted to me when I said he DID support your plan.[/b]

But none of that should be happening. Also the levels here are much greater here then any where else.
[b]But it is, and no one cares. It's the internet. FOR FUN. And this place is for MEMBER GROUPS. We aren't allowed a random club, so why the frick not let us have general discussion?[/b]

I can't turn off post count. And as I said back then YCMaker won't turn off intros post count so their isn't a snowballs chance in hell of it happening
[b]Well, then, you need to build a snowMAN.[/b]

And yours isn't?
[b]It is, but his is moreso. I balanced it out, and have comebacks other than "ono"[/b]

And they won't go back to being big because?
Please read what I'm writing. I will make club leaders responsible for their clubs so they will be enforcing the rules.
It's hard for new clubs to get big.
[b]R.P.820, Orgy XIII, etc. Big clubs now. They will be small, due to slowing down.
Oh, ok, so, basically, ban a CLUB LEADER for his members. Logic, there, isn't it? Well, Dark should be banned, for his threads in general have been hijacked.[/b]

Um how do they look useless is EVERY other thread is the same size. Big and Small is all relative. A thread with a 100 posts is big when the others are around 35 but small next to 100. Why would they slow down. They should just pick up where they left off.
People will rage and flame if we started cracking down the way I want.
The same as above, only it will be Flame Dragon sucks since this is all my idea. It's only my con and I don;t care if it serves the greater good.
[b]Exactly. They do not grow fast, and they are small. USELESS LOOKING. Some clubs are slow now. And, no they would not pick up. Why? You went batcrap with the rules, when this is for MEMBER GROUPS.
Of course they will.
It won't serve the greater good, though. I'm all for that kind of sacrifice, but it will just make more members leave.[/b]
[/quote]

[Sploda]

[quote name='Fading Black' timestamp='1289520520' post='4777809']
I'm going by YOUR logic. First come, most important!

1. It's easier so just do it? Riiiight.
2. Then why make it a poll? Why not just a thread in General/Suggestions?

What Mods? there was YOU, Dark, and Twig, and a few others that said yes, once.

Icy is against you, as is Opal, and Roxas too. Then there's myself, Jake, Revolver, Ice, Nex, CC, FTW, and more. That's a lot more than you have.

It proves things ARE fine. People are enjoying themselves on the internet, and they are not harming anyone in an way. General gets off topic, too. Polls turn into convos. I've seen some Card threads turn into convos. The list goes on.

Disable post count, if you think it's so bad! If it takes time, at least it gets done.


Biased list is biased.

Fresh start is not good. Kills bigger clubs.
Rules will NOT be easier. At all. There will still be a ton of clubs.
So? That can happen NOW.

Cons:
Clubs that are big look small and useless, especially if they slowed down.
Many people will not remake/will flame and raeg and whatnot.
Even more "MODS SUCK!" things everywhere.
[/quote]

I'd just like to point out that being like the Powerforce should be under Cons, just saying.

I'm kinda split on the idea, I'm not really liking it but if it goes through I want to see it go even further.

[Shadow Zero]

Flame Dragon, allow me to summarize what everyone except for a few is saying as bluntly as possible.

A-hem. Take your batshit crazy arse idea, and forget about it completely, because it is not happening. We do not want it to happen, it happening would be bad, and if it does happen, we would have your resignation and removal good sir. kthxbai

[Blake]

[quote name='Shadow Zero' timestamp='1289524329' post='4778037']
Flame Dragon, allow me to summarize what everyone except for a few is saying as bluntly as possible.

A-hem. Take your batshit crazy arse idea, and forget about it completely, because it is not happening. We do not want it to happen, it happening would be bad, and if it does happen, we would have your resignation and removal food sir. kthxbai
[/quote]
DAMMIT SHADOW! >_>

How about this: Do not try to help. Try to hurt us. Your arguments will fail, and serve to prove our point.

[Nexev]

[quote name='Jake the Sage' timestamp='1289517935' post='4777713']
Agreed. I seriosuly think this little club to aid YCMaker failed when the topic turned to f*cking Unicorns and [b]black [/b]rainbows
[/quote]
Ugh, what are you, kkk? Just don't talk to me, I don't want to here your preaching about your superiority.

On topic of the clubs, rules will be enforced allot less.

If you squeeze to tightly on a object it either breaks or slips out.

Either people will be forced to make clubs about any single topic imaginable just so they will be able to talk about it (Which will mean you have to moderate a massive amount of clubs so people can get away with anything since you are completly incapable of finding it in the huge mass of clubs.)

Or people will not bother since they don't want to make a club over and over again, so they will simply won't bother keeping a topic because it will get locked anyway.

Or people will use super vague topics and s*** like Stuff.


Oh and what other section has been nuked before? The card trade one is the only one I can think of.

Does this look like stealing? No.

You really think this is at that level?

[Flame Dragon]

[quote name='Ice' timestamp='1289522513' post='4777947']
Proto, I find a logic flaw, he edits his crap, more flaws and so on.
[/quote]
The whole logc flows is built on the idea that this club is breaking the sections rules. Nice try.

[quote name='Jake the Sage' timestamp='1289522918' post='4777973']
I agree with disabeling the post count. Also I personally believe that restarting the entire club threads wouldn't work. All that would happen, despite Mod intervention, is that people would simply reopen the threads again.
[/quote]
Only YCMaker can turn off post counts. I don't see him doing so here when 1) it takes him 2 months to do something as simple as fix the pm glitch, 2) won't turn it off for intros which has posts made almost only of "hi" and "welcome." People should reopen their clubs, but it should be kept from getting to the point it's at now.

[quote]
Hasn't it?
[/quote]
No

[quote]
Making a poll. But, closing the clubs applies too.
[/quote]
The reaction here is key to finding out if I should keep going.

[quote]
Opal stated she did not like your plan. Icy retorted to me when I said he DID support your plan.
[/quote]
I've skimmed the last 10 or so pages and I don't see Opal saying anything. I'll still take your word for it.

[quote]
But it is, and no one cares. It's the internet. FOR FUN. And this place is for MEMBER GROUPS. We aren't allowed a random club, so why the frick not let us have general discussion?
[/quote]
No it's because we are to lazy. And if it was FOR FUN then why do we have rules in the first place? Should we be allowed to talk about anything, any where regardless of the topic. Yes this is for member groups, your point? General discussion means the topic will change at random. The affectively do the same thing from the way I look at it.

[quote]
Well, then, you need to build a snowMAN.
[/quote]
I don't get where your going with this.

[quote]
R.P.820, Orgy XIII, etc. Big clubs now. They will be small, due to slowing down.
Oh, ok, so, basically, ban a CLUB LEADER for his members. Logic, there, isn't it? Well, Dark should be banned, for his threads in general have been hijacked.
[/quote]
Why will the slow down? Wouldn't all the old members join the new club?
I'm not banning the club leader just warning them. The whole rule is built on the idea that the club leader knows that they are responsible for what happens in the club and make it willing to control the discussion or get warned because they didn't. I'm not going to keep them from giving the leader to some one else if they don't feel up to it. And please suggest an good way to control Clubs side from this having mods look at the active clubs every day to make sure they stay on topic for the most part (I get that spam happens FYI, I'm still not going to do anything if only a handful of post slip by everyday so long as it's fixed in a timely manner).

[quote]
Exactly. They do not grow fast, and they are small. USELESS LOOKING. Some clubs are slow now. And, no they would not pick up. Why? You went batcrap with the rules, when this is for MEMBER GROUPS.
Of course they will.
It won't serve the greater good, though. I'm all for that kind of sacrifice, but it will just make more members leave.
[/quote]
Small =/= Useless. And slowing down is good. It makes things easier to manage as well as keeps members from getting lost if they missed a day or two. Yes, I know this is crazy, you don't need to tell me that. I don't get how this will chase off members since they will get the club back in less then a day. Again, what is a member group?

The simple fact is I don't like where this section is and I want to see it get fixed. Unless you have some other ideas this is the one I think can work.

[Ice.]

[quote name='Flame Dragon' timestamp='1289525580' post='4778097']
The whole logc flows is built on the idea that this club is breaking the sections rules. Nice try.

Again, what is a member group?

The simple fact is [b]I don't like[/b] where this section is and I want to see it get fixed. Unless you have some other ideas this is the one I think can work.
[/quote]

That makes no sense.

Besides, if this thread is breaking the rules, you're posting in it, effectively supporting a thread that is breaking the rules.

A member group is a group where members discuss crap. As the name suggests.

This proves that this is based on your opinion. A lot of forums have a general discussion thread/forum. Why not keep Clubs and Organizations for that purpose? Who gives a crap about post count?

And read Nex' argument.

[Amethyst Phoenix]

Let's say you've got a machine that makes eggs.


One day, it suddenly malfunctions and all the eggs it produces are now made of solid gold.



You get angry, destroy it, and try to claim the warranty to get your mediocre egg machine back, despite the fact that it being broken is arguably better.




This is a metaphor for your idea. And it distributes differential pressure across an orifice.