YCM’s Cold Environment

[mythcaptor]

Now before you attack me for the title let me explain myself, In most ways YCM is an amazing community that Im really glad to be a part of. However, this issue I have been noticing lately is a pattern that I have seen several instances of. Heres how it works:

“Mr. Noob" signs up for YCM. He has tried out the card maker, and is a huge yugioh fan, and cant wait to share all of his ideas. He creates his first card, and posts it. Suddenly he receives a huge amount of cold, often hateful and almost always highly discouraging CnC for his card with either bad OCG or an OP’d effect of one of many other common noob issues. He trys again, but still doesnt have the hang of the finer points of card making and is again assaulted. This repeats several times. At this point one of three things will happen. Mr. Noob
1. Becomes bitter, trolls a bit, puts a raging status update, and quits (resulting in a perfectly good member ruined forever)
2. Quietly disappears forever (resulting in a perfectly good member ruined forever)
3. Figures it out, tolerates haters, and becomes an active member.

I feel that 1 and 2 happen to much. I understand 100% that you have all good intentions, and that your just trying to help, but seriously, heres a quote from a recent noobs card thread
[quote]Doesn't even look realistic. Neither does the effect.

*sigh*

Did you honestly think this card was good? Even for a noob? [/quote]
Imagine how you would feel if someone said this to your card
The card WAS bad, but the flaming he got from his cards thread turned him to path 1.
a mind lost from this site forever.

Iv carried this thread on long enough, lets sum this up.
You guys mean well, but you, especially the senior members, are a little to harsh on noobs. They are learning and somehow an expectation exists that everyone should have perfect OCG when they come onto YCM which is a little stupid in my personal opinion. Anyways thanks for reading. Please discuss.

(edit: I just realsied that this is in the suggestion fourm, I should probably suggest something. Just in case it wasent painfuly obvious, my suggestion is that members become nicer and more tolerating to noobs. There. No spamming “wrong fourm” for you )

[disclaimer: I understand there are some noobs who deserve harsh behaviour. Ones who are annoying or rude from the start shouldn't be here in the first place. If they became that way half way through the tread though, or starts arguing with people with valid points, laid across to harshly... hmm... Im no shrink but Im gonna have to say... frustration? Think about it.]

[Blake]

Umm... Dude? This is something that would be changing PEOPLE. You really cannot change people. It's like telling Crab Helmet or Dark not to debate... it just won't happen...

Oh, and that quote? The card was horrendous. Jay did nothing wrong. That was not hateful at all. The thread was titled "The Best Card A Newb As Ever Made [size='1']Please rate.[/size]", so he obviously felt it was brilliant, and dwarfed all others. He had also posted a thread about how he wanted fair rating... so, that thread was hypocrisy.

BTW, I've been told my cards were bad before. I'm still here. I've gotten into fights in TCG and Realistic. Did I leave?

Next, let's examine your 3 paths.
1. If they threw that kind of hissy fit, then they are not a good member, at all, are they?
2. Not... really... most of those people just move to other sections... Some people just are not good cardmakers.
3. And these are the best ones OR the incredibly stuck up ones. This is not entirely good.

Also, people are not so harsh to newbs. Only to the n00bs, who are absolutely ridiculous in all aspects. Sure, they'll say OCG is horrible, etc., but then they ask what OCG is, learn, and fix it,

That guy, whose thread is where you quoted Jay from, was a n00b. He claimed his ridiculously OPd card was balanced, and he NEGGED Jay for saying the above post, although he 'wanted' fair reviews.

So, I pose thiae question to you: Do we really want stuck-up, bad cardmakers like that guy?

[Wardek]

I used to flame noob cards when i was 3 level member, but after i became 4 star member, i stopped flaming them and some of times i rate their cards even if rated 1/10. >3>

[JG.]

[quote name='Tainted Black' timestamp='1286966276' post='4701353']
Umm... Dude? This is something that would be changing PEOPLE. You really cannot change people. It's like telling Crab Helmet or Dark not to debate... it just won't happen...

Oh, and that quote? The card was horrendous. Jay did nothing wrong. That was not hateful at all. The thread was titled "The Best Card A Newb As Ever Made [size='1']Please rate.[/size]", so he obviously felt it was brilliant, and dwarfed all others. He had also posted a thread about how he wanted fair rating... so, that thread was hypocrisy.

BTW, I've been told my cards were bad before. I'm still here. I've gotten into fights in TCG and Realistic. Did I leave?

Next, let's examine your 3 paths.
1. If they threw that kind of hissy fit, then they are not a good member, at all, are they?
2. Not... really... most of those people just move to other sections... Some people just are not good cardmakers.
3. And these are the best ones OR the incredibly stuck up ones. This is not entirely good.

Also, people are not so harsh to newbs. Only to the n00bs, who are absolutely ridiculous in all aspects. Sure, they'll say OCG is horrible, etc., but then they ask what OCG is, learn, and fix it,

That guy, whose thread is where you quoted Jay from, was a n00b. He claimed his ridiculously OPd card was balanced, and he NEGGED Jay for saying the above post, although he 'wanted' fair reviews.

So, I pose thiae question to you: Do we really want stuck-up, bad cardmakers like that guy?
[/quote]

If the character limit allowed it, I'd sig that and the first post.

[CinnamonStar]

You can't change people, but you can teach them some manners.
Seriously this is just true, even though it's a soft example since the new guy doesn't seem to accept criticism and it wasn't even the worst kind. And that's what's so bad really, there are worse examples on the site... Sure "it's all just the Internet", we all need to man up, but it's common respect really.
Are some people such losers in real life that they need to show their "superiority" in such a way on the Internet?:/ I haven't been in CC or Showcase much lately but I've seen what it's like in General...

The community is still fine, it's active and all but you really need to pick your people out carefully.:/

[Blake]

I'm nicer to people, but the majority are not so touchy-feely. Good cardmakers survive, and bad ones do not. It's a cycle, really.

[CinnamonStar]

Well I [i]kind of[/i] understand why some people post harsh ratings in forums like Showcase or CC, it's bad to see OPed/horrible cards half of the time. But it's not just there, lots of newbies get flamed for asking questions or just posting their opinions in General. "lawlYCM getting more stupid, fail moar!!!11!1" It would be nice to see more posts that aren't just lecturing people and showing that apparently they know everything better.:/

[Blake]

*Points at RPG School, albeit dead*

Some of us tried to do that with Jake the Sage's RPG School, for teaching Roleplayers. (Still, no clue as to why he calls them RPGs...)

It's just.. hard to keep helpful things alive =/

[Catterjune]

But his card's artwork didn't look realistic, and the effect was way overpowered, and the guy lauded it as "The Best Card A Newb [H]As Ever Made". What Jay said wasn't at all mean spirited or anything of the sort.

Like I mean, if that's your most triumphant example of YCM being cold than lol@thistopic.

[FTW (For The Wynn)]

I think the biggest problem here is that the source that is being used to back up your argument mythcaptor is pretty bad. Jay wasn't wrong in what she said. She could have been a little less blunt about it, but that wasn't exactly untruthful, and his title did say "The Best Card A Newb As Ever Made". Could you imagine what it would have been like had JoshIcy or Yankee rated it since they rate based on their standards? A title like that anyway is almost the equal of saying "Hey, I'm trollbait, please tell me how perfectly awesome my card is and how I'm so much better than you". I try to be nice to people and I take ever critique I get, no matter how harsh, as a way to improve myself. Actually, I usually get more improvement from the extremely harsh critiques than anything else.

Your argument, however, is valid. People here think too much of themselves. I know I have ego problems on here, I'll admit that right now. But, in that same way that I know that, I try to help people to get better by praising the good points of their cards. A critique is very good, but knowing what you do well helps a lot too. In every rate I do, no matter how good or bad the card, I try to point out something good and/or I try to give encouragement to them to keep them trying.

Edit: He also apologized via status. Here it is:
[color=#474747][font=tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=2]
[b] "Hello people, I am very sorry for my immature behaviour last night, as I realized I wasn't right, I was just being a wrong annoying spaz. Please accept my apology as I will stay on this forum, as an active forum user, and I will never again use such words and behavior. Thanks you "[/b]
[/size][/font][/color]

[Icy]

@Wynn: We have 2 standards. The first is the nice one we give when posting (albeit we're rarely in that position because we have to clean up messes), the second is the one we never fully elaborated on but are familiar with how brutal it is.

And as I say [i][u]EVERY SINGLE TIME![/u][/i] PM me these things, or contact me Via MSN. If you explain why you are contacting me first before just giving me a link I will do it with a smile on my face and correct these fools for being cold and troll-ish (it's not trolling).

[mythcaptor]

@ Pika and FTW, tbh, I grabbed the first one that I could find that worked in context here. Im sure I could find a better one If I tired, Ive seen some pretty harsh people. If you think its worth doing, Ill find a better one. Point is, he was a noob who didnt know what he was doing, even if he was really cocky, and he got flamed to a point where he accused all of YCM of being addicted to gay hentai in his status and quit. So yeah, definitely not the best example. There are plenty of senerios where there are much less annoying members who get mercilessly flamed just from lack of experience. Im not saying dont tell them what they do wrong, that is the only way they will learn. Its just that I dont think it has to be a survival of the fittest. It should be a more forgiving environment.

Oh and at FTW, Im really glad to hear that update on his status update, maybe he has hope after all

[Kuri]

[quote name='JoshIcy' timestamp='1287022232' post='4703588']
@Wynn: We have 2 standards. The first is the nice one we give when posting (albeit we're rarely in that position because we have to clean up messes), the second is the one we never fully elaborated on but are familiar with how brutal it is.

And as I say [i][u]EVERY SINGLE TIME![/u][/i] PM me these things, or contact me Via MSN. If you explain why you are contacting me first before just giving me a link I will do it with a smile on my face and correct these fools for being cold and troll-ish (it's not trolling).
[/quote]
Thus the answer...to a suggestion O.o but I'm trying to change myself to tip nubbish people instead of just saying what's wrong etc.

[Kaisu]

This is a typical forum.

It's split into three groups.

A - The n00bs
B - The atrocious typing members
C - The members

[Catterjune]

[quote name='mythcaptor' timestamp='1287022250' post='4703590']
Point is, he was a noob who didnt know what he was doing, even if he was really cocky, and he got flamed to a point where he accused all of YCM of being addicted to gay hentai in his status and quit.
[/quote]
One person acting like a petchulant child after getting exactly what he asked for =/= YCM being cold

Though I'm pretty sure YCM isn't the happest place on the internets, it's certainly not the worst, and even if it were, that post wasn't the worst by a long shot.

[Makο]

I can remember when I was a noob...my 1st card actually wasn't to bad, I have been told...anyway, any negative comment I received didn't have any effect on me. I was thinking "Its gonna take a lot more than that to get me down".


IOW, I'm stubborn.

[Womi]

*insert cold, often hateful and almost always highly discouraging post criticizing the thread here*

I get your point, but, to pick up Opal's post, you just need to choose your members and ignore the rest.

[Admiral Tim]

[quote name='mythcaptor' timestamp='1286958315' post='4701248']
Now before you attack me for the title let me explain myself, In most ways YCM is an amazing community that Im really glad to be a part of. However, this issue I have been noticing lately is a pattern that I have seen several instances of. Heres how it works:

“Mr. Noob" signs up for YCM. He has tried out the card maker, and is a huge yugioh fan, and cant wait to share all of his ideas. He creates his first card, and posts it. Suddenly he receives a huge amount of cold, often hateful and almost always highly discouraging CnC for his card with either bad OCG or an OP’d effect of one of many other common noob issues. He trys again, but still doesnt have the hang of the finer points of card making and is again assaulted. This repeats several times. At this point one of three things will happen. Mr. Noob
1. Becomes bitter, trolls a bit, puts a raging status update, and quits (resulting in a perfectly good member ruined forever)
2. Quietly disappears forever (resulting in a perfectly good member ruined forever)
3. Figures it out, tolerates haters, and becomes an active member.

I feel that 1 and 2 happen to much. I understand 100% that you have all good intentions, and that your just trying to help, but seriously, heres a quote from a recent noobs card thread

Imagine how you would feel if someone said this to your card
The card WAS bad, but the flaming he got from his cards thread turned him to path 1.
a mind lost from this site forever.

Iv carried this thread on long enough, lets sum this up.
You guys mean well, but you, especially the senior members, are a little to harsh on noobs. They are learning and somehow an expectation exists that everyone should have perfect OCG when they come onto YCM which is a little stupid in my personal opinion. Anyways thanks for reading. Please discuss.

(edit: I just realsied that this is in the suggestion fourm, I should probably suggest something. Just in case it wasent painfuly obvious, my suggestion is that members become nicer and more tolerating to noobs. There. No spamming “wrong fourm” for you )

[disclaimer: I understand there are some noobs who deserve harsh behaviour. Ones who are annoying or rude from the start shouldn't be here in the first place. If they became that way half way through the tread though, or starts arguing with people with valid points, laid across to harshly... hmm... Im no shrink but Im gonna have to say... frustration? Think about it.]
[/quote]


Suck it up. I survived and so should they. You can't change YCM. Just as much they can change being Newbs. Nuff said.

[quote name='Kaisu' timestamp='1287041518' post='4703996']
This is a typical forum.

It's split into three groups.

A - The n00bs [b]Ianwatters[/b]
B - The atrocious typing members [b]Larxene[/b]
C - The members [b]Kaisu[/b]
[b]D- The Nice helpful members - Blu Dawn[/b]
[b]E- The epic members that have had their names implanted in YCM - Pikachu, Ragnarok, Draco Stryburn. Just to name a few.[/b]
[/quote]

[CinnamonStar]

Yeah "Doesn't even look realistic. Neither does the effect. *sigh* Did you honestly think this card was good? Even for a noob?" is nothing rude. The n00b part was to be expected with such a name and title.

People post their stuff in CC and should expect it to be rated. Sure there are ways to say things but the least you should expect is that people will comment and rate. In the General main board, I've seen newbies who maybe didn't have 100% correct grammar or were posting funny things, and people just shut them down with a wannabe smart explanation about how they apparently now everything better. It's a lack of respect and just a way to push their pathetic little self.

[quote name='Kaisu' timestamp='1287041518' post='4703996']
This is a typical forum.

It's split into three groups.

[b]A - The newbies and n00bs[/b] (I keep them aside)
[b]B - The older members who apparently have "lrnd2YCM" and have nothing to say except for rude and lecturing comments. Since they supposedly now everything better >_>[/b]
[b]C - And inbetween a few friendly people[/b]
[/quote]

Uh...fixed.:/

But it's really awesome how he apologized, it gives me hope that there are a few more people of the C group out there.>_>

[Womi]

I also want to do an ABC of Member Groups!

A- The members never ever posting
B- Unimportant members/newbies
C- Active and deservedly well known members
D- Active and stupid members (either with or without a goofy fanbase)
E- The modest ones, often legendary

[Blake]

[quote name='WiiOmi' timestamp='1287090798' post='4704986']
I also want to do an ABC of Member Groups!

A- The members never ever posting
B- Unimportant members/newbies
C- Active and deservedly well known members
D- Active and stupid members (either with or without a goofy fanbase)
[/quote]
... Yep, this pretty much covers it.

[Womi]

I forgot and added these members rarely posting, often combined with high maturity. Not always, but often.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='WiiOmi' timestamp='1287090798' post='4704986']
E- The modest ones, often legendary
[/quote]
Me and you are in this slot bro.[/ego]

I don't normally go to the cards section but isn't getting a bad comment better than getting no comment for a newb?

[Sweetie Belle]

I remember being new. I used the cardmaker before joining; I'd make the card and save it to my hard drive. Then my friend, who also used it, told me to make an account. So I did. Then I kind of drifted away. I came back later, and learned about the forum. I went there, and posted the first set of cards I made.

...no one commented. I read somewhere, and I don't remember where, that if little to no one comments, then either the cards are so good that there is nothing wrong with them, or they're so bad that no one wants to comment on them. Later on, I began to realise that people preferred flaming bad cards over supporting good ones. Now, however, I have newbies who have necro-bumped some of those old threads. But either way, I am normally nice to new members, unless of course, you become one of the following:

1: Arrogant
2: A troll
3: Excessively stupid (not learning what people are telling you)
4: or a spammer

In the end, I slowed down on my card making. Now, I make cards now and then, but not so often. I found the RP forum, and that's where I am.

[Legend Zero]

[quote name='SleepingKirby' timestamp='1287098308' post='4705392']
I am normally nice to new members, unless of course, you become one of the following:

1: Arrogant
2: A troll
3: Excessively stupid (not learning what people are telling you)
4: or a spammer
5. Had a bad day[/quote]
fix'd and I believe you just described 3/4 of YCM.