Why DON'T these characters exist? (Long enough)

[Dr. Cakey]

You know the guys. The awesome ones that get brushed aside. You have so many questions...and they get ignored. It's always the same - they always lose in a really lame way. Here, let me give you some examples:

Segundo Espada, Barragan:
Well, apparently Barragan's ability to age anything also applies to himself, so he has a completely unexplained way of sealing himself off from his power. So Kido (read: useless magic that is occasionally important in order to further the plot) is used to transport his own Respira inside him. Uh...what?

Primero Espada, Starrk:
Starrk/Lilinette was apparently so powerful that just being near it caused most Hollow to dissolve. Then he became an Arrancar, becoming incalculably more powerful. His trump move arrives when he transforms pieces of his soul into indestructible wolves that detonate in Cero-like explosions. He's about to win, when he's randomly stabbed in the back by Shunsui. The Golden Rule of Bleach is NEVER INTERFERE IN A FIGHT. [i]Aizen[/i] didn't interfere (except briefly in the next item in our list)! Also, wasn't Shunsui shot in the back at point-blank by Starrk? Anyway, mere flesh wounds aren't about to stop Starrk, but he is randomly going to get slower - again, to further the plot. He attacks with his wolves - which apparently are all Lilinette now for some reason - and Shunsui blows them up with his random-whirlwind-thingy-attack. And - to further the plot - the wolves are no longer able to regenerate. Starrk is still not down for the count, and honestly at this point I'd have let him keep his dignity and win, but Shunsui then stabs him through his Hollow-hole and kills him. Excuse me? First of all, the Hollow-hole is not actually black (in terms of the 'game' they were playing). Second, the Hollow-hole is not some kind of secret weak point - I'm pretty sure Nnoitra proved that when he was STABBED THROUGH THE EYE - which was his Hollow-hole.

Tercero Espada, Halibel:
Halibel suffered from three diseases: being that character disease, invisible clothing disease, and breast expansion disease. If we wander to 284 (or whatever corresponding manga chapter) and see Halibel as a Hollow, she's basically the same, but wearing clothes. She looks freaking awesome like that. Look, this is a wider address to all characters suffering from these diseases: it's not even sexy. It's just...stupid. Please, just stop. Moving right along, Halibel neither seemed capable of being beaten by anything nor inflicting too much damage. Aizen put her out of her misery, which is really just stupid. Tite Kubo couldn't just conclude the fight?

Team Unicorn:
Enough Bleach. Team Unicorn was insane - we loved them. Their bread and butter was Andore, a card-playing genius at least an equal to Yusei. He had an incredible card-playing sense (one of the longer English phrases to come out of 5D's: kaado pureingu sensu...) and could adapt his strategy to his opponent. Jean was a schemer who analyzed the duel and controlled every aspect of it. Breo...was filler, but he solidly rounded out the team and didn't give a decent story. Now, Team Unicorn was cheated twice: first, they earned one of the most horrible losses - no the most horrible loss - in all of 5D's. Jean all but forfeited the match. Now, Team Unicorn was saved, because apparently the WRGP had some kind of Swiss or match system. So they rode proudly on to...being defeated by Team Catastrophe's cheating. They were tossed aside and replaced with the banal Team Taiyo and unnecessary Team Ragnarok.

Sasori of the Akatsuki:
Naruto time. Sasori existed for one reason - to conclusively justify to the audience that Sakura was no longer completely useless. And we responded: yes she is, that was just a stupid fight. That fight received more air-time than any other (though I suspect the fight with Pain is actually longer now). Sasori was awesome - he was a puppet within a puppet and had killed the most powerful Kazekage and turned him into a puppet. And he was beaten by an old lady and a girl with pink hair. What. The. Hell.

Lord Pain:
Pain doesn't properly fit into the Naruto universe. He's really just a front for the main villain (the main main [i]main[/i] villain, that is), but Madara's Sharingan is derived from the Rinnegan. The present conflict has been established as the continuation of the ancient conflict between the Senju and Uchiha clans, both derived from the Sage of Six Paths, whose eye was the Rinnegan. To fit the model, Pain would be outside the fight between Naruto and Sasuke and Madara. And, of course, he would be more powerful. The Rinnegan is outside Life and Death, but Nagato expends a colossal amount of effort to do what should be easy for him. The Rinnegan has been established as capable of just about anything - I'd expect more from him. Consider that he's beaten by Naruto, but also that Naruto got stronger than him through an extended training montage and an infusion of deus ex toad.

Those are just a few of them. Discuss these absent characters!

[Ghoulish]

i agree with the sasori one, actually i was quite shocked when the idea of Sakura and the old lady were gonna verse a member of the supposedly incredibly powerful akatsuki.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Well, I'd just look at the shows you're citing. Bleach, Naruto and Yugioh. The first two tally up to little more than mindless action, and the other is a means of advertising the card game. In some of the better shows a character will be given his dues and the such, which is one of the reasons people that don't just settle for mediocre fighting oftentimes dislike shows like Bleach and Naruto.

[Merci]

Well, Sakura did train with Tsunade, and I usually hear that Konoha's Hokages are always the strongest out of the five Kages, while nobody in the Sand Village knew how to cure Sasori's poison. And the granny is very, very experienced, even more so than Sasori, see. And she controlled ten puppets which battled against a hundred.....Well, in the end, Sasori committed suicide, actually, by on purpose running into the trap.

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote]Well, Sakura did train with Tsunade, and I usually hear that Konoha's Hokages are always the strongest out of the five Kages, while nobody in the Sand Village knew how to cure Sasori's poison. And the granny is very, very experienced, even more so than Sasori, see. And she controlled ten puppets which battled against a hundred.....[b]Well, in the end, Sasori committed suicide, actually, by on purpose running into the trap.[/b][/quote]
I don't care if Sakura got the Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, Sage Mode, and a curse mark. I refuse to accept that a character that, when introduced, never did any substantive fighting at all. Not once, for the entire two billion episode run of the original. I'd be more willing to accept Konahamaru beating Sasori. And the bold is true, which arguably just makes it even worse.

[quote name='Vuvuzela of Triumph' timestamp='1283529393' post='4595163']
Well, I'd just look at the shows you're citing. Bleach, Naruto and Yugioh. The first two tally up to little more than mindless action, and the other is a means of advertising the card game. In some of the better shows a character will be given his dues and the such, which is one of the reasons people that don't just settle for mediocre fighting oftentimes dislike shows like Bleach and Naruto.
[/quote]
If Bleach and Naruto are fighting shows, why don't they spend any time fighting? It's one of my main complaints. None of these characters would even be on this list if it weren't for the fact we were spoon-fed exhaustive backstory on each one.

You want other examples, from less "mindless" anime? Well, there's that woman from Death Note whose name I'm forgetting - but you don't like Death Note, either. Then there's Mao and V.V. from my favorite anime ever, Code Geass.

[Ghoulish]

[quote name='Vuvuzela of Triumph' timestamp='1283529393' post='4595163']
Well, I'd just look at the shows you're citing. Bleach, Naruto and Yugioh. The first two tally up to little more than mindless action, and the other is a means of advertising the card game. In some of the better shows a character will be given his dues and the such, which is one of the reasons people that don't just settle for mediocre fighting oftentimes dislike shows like Bleach and Naruto.
[/quote]

mindless action with no deeper meaning or influential story plot behind it, all they do is just attack each other right? Might want to check your facts because Bleach and Naruto are two of the most popular animes around.

[CrabHelmet]

[quote name='~Soulciety~' timestamp='1283550363' post='4596273']
mindless action with no deeper meaning or influential story plot behind it, all they do is just attack each other right? Might want to check your facts because Bleach and Naruto are two of the most popular animes around.
[/quote]
Popularity does not equal quality. Want to know what else is popular? Twilight.

[Merci]

I like Twilight. I don't see what's so wrong about it.

[Βyakuya]

Because it wastes time during the plot and there is no way any author can fit all those in.

[Ghoulish]

[quote name='Crab Helmet' timestamp='1283557255' post='4596704']
Popularity does not equal quality. Want to know what else is popular? Twilight.
[/quote]

ew Twilight, but you can't compare twilight to an anime/manga talk because it is an entirely different genre and appeals to a different market, in the instance of Bleach/Naruto popularity, then yea i guess popularity does equal quality otherwise what else would be the attraction? What aspect implies that it's just mindless action?

[Dr. Cakey]

[quote name='Merciful Idiot' timestamp='1283558828' post='4596767']
I like Twilight. I don't see what's so wrong about it.
[/quote]
I wrote an essay on why Twilight is really really bad. But that's for a different topic - a certain locked topic, I believe.

Popularity correlates with quality about 50% of the time, which is a long way of saying it doesn't correlate.

To tackle the quality of Bleach and Naruto, I'd say that they're certainly better than most anime, and by extension, most TV shows on these shores. They're not truly great, and both of them seem to be struggling to reclaim their lost glory period but don't know how (Soul Society Arcs and...things involving Orochimaru, respectively). Both of them drag, and drag badly. Are they really great? No, I guess not, but they're good.

[Plaguespreader Zombie]

[quote name='Dr. Cakey' timestamp='1283563785' post='4597087']
I'd say that they're certainly better than most anime,
[/quote]

10/10, would rage again.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

You guys are just infuriating.

[quote name='~Soulciety~' timestamp='1283560428' post='4596864']
ew Twilight, but you can't compare twilight to an anime/manga talk because it is an entirely different genre and appeals to a different market, in the instance of Bleach/Naruto popularity, then yea i guess popularity does equal quality otherwise what else would be the attraction? What aspect implies that it's just mindless action?
[/quote]
The fact that it's mindless action is what attracts the hordes of idiots. Then they start to become attached to the sorry rehashed excuse for the plot. Different market but same idea; Twilight is just the Naruto/Bleach of books, crappy and extremely overrated.

[burnpsy]

While everyone's entitled to their own opinion, the argument that encompasses most of these posts has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand aside from the part where some of the characters in the opening posts are in some of the anime that are argued about. Take it to the individual anime threads.

Oh, and a note to one of the earlier posts here: The YGO anime/manga came a long while before the card game outside of North America and Europe. The card game advertises the anime/manga if either is the case.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

[quote name='burnpsy' timestamp='1283817968' post='4608557']
While everyone's entitled to their own opinion, the argument that encompasses most of these posts has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand aside from the part where some of the characters in the opening posts are in some of the anime that are argued about. Take it to the individual anime threads.

Oh, and a note to one of the earlier posts here: The YGO anime/manga came a long while before the card game outside of North America and Europe. The card game advertises the anime/manga if either is the case.
[/quote]
Not once they got in on the duel monster craze and that's all the show revolved around. Then it simply served as a means to hype certain cards so that people would shovel out money for them, which they do.

And boohoo, topic change. D;

[Phantom Roxas]

[quote name='Gary Oak' timestamp='1283565628' post='4597204']
10/10, would rage again.
[/quote]

[b]Most[/b].

For 5D's, easily Divine, the two Yliaster men, and the Fifth Dragon. Divine is my favorite Yu-Gi-Oh! villain, and his anticlimactic deaths ruined a character that could have easily provided a third faction in the story. I refuse to believe the Wiki page is right, and unless recent episodes have answered this, I want to see the characters that talked with the Godwin brothers. Great villain and mysterious but potentially interesting villains that were heavily underutilized. Not to mention the Fifth Dragon was scrapped because Blackwings have to be promoted and we're being toyed with by seeing the Fifth Dragon in the credits.

For me, it's not characters that didn't last long enough, just ones that were pushed into the background to progress [s]Foe Yay[/s] the semblance of plot. Oh hai Naruto and Ichigo. Did you forget your friends?

[Merci]

The Fifth Dragon will have a role later on, something like that.

[Ghoulish]

[quote name='Vuvuzela of Triumph' timestamp='1283817594' post='4608525']
You guys are just infuriating.


The fact that it's mindless action is what attracts the hordes of idiots. Then they start to become attached to the sorry rehashed excuse for the plot. Different market but same idea; Twilight is just the Naruto/Bleach of books, crappy and extremely overrated.
[/quote]

Yea you're right everyone should shar your misguided opinion shouldn't they? What implys that it is mindless action?? the storyline is built up alot arund friendship, respect and loyalty, mindless action could be seen more in terms of DBZ but not Bleach and expecially not Naruto, you clearly have no idea or have not watched the series if you think that.

[MortalKombatSmoke]

I can't believe they let that Pink haired B**** kill off Sasori! He's still my fave Akatsuki member next to Pain and Zetsu. well it used to be Pain and Tobi but recent event have caused me to grow a personal hatred for Madara... ANYWAY I also think u had a Point with the Rinnengan. I mean a little pep speech from naruto and Nagato goes and kills himself? WTF!? This is what i would've done in Nagato's place:
"Konan..."
"Yes nagato?"
"Kill that son of a B*tch"
5 seconds later is a dead Naruto XD

[Merci]

We all have our different points of view, and in them, we are correct, doubts or no doubts. You think A and I think B and this guy supports me and that guy supports you and this other guy thinks C with a girl supporting him and more girls supporting you and I but then I want those idiots who think A and C to see my way, B, and agree. But you and him try to convince [i]me[/i] to see [i]your[/i] and [i]their[/i] way of thinking and it's war, so then I give up and tell you and him, 'We all have our different points of view, and in them, we are correct, doubts or no doubts. So let us be on our way and stay true to what we believe, because it is right for [i]us[/i] even if I have absolutely no clue as to why you continue to disagree with me, I am sure you have your reasons. Just don't forget I have my own too." and then after that I leave you to your A and C ideas.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Okay, here goes nothing.
[quote name='~Soulciety~' timestamp='1283853277' post='4609529']
Yea you're right everyone should shar your misguided opinion shouldn't they?
[/quote]
Irony. I've already been negged by someone for not sharing his opinion in this thread, I honestly don't give a damn. Someone else turned the focus of this topic around on me and I'm wasn't going to let him get in a few words on me randomly.


[quote]What implys that it is mindless action?? the storyline is built up alot arund friendship, respect and loyalty,[/quote]
That is all the cliche crap that anyone can turn out. It's an excuse story for the battles. See, you're not that bright a person, so something like friendship, loyalty and respect doesn't come off as the most cliche'd crap ever to you. You may even find it inspiring. If anyways has any taste however, they can see the opposite.


[quote]mindless action could be seen more in terms of DBZ but not Bleach and expecially not Naruto, you clearly have no idea or have not watched the series if you think that.
[/quote]
DBZ is mindless action(well, the ladder half is anyways). But as is Naruto and Bleach. This obviously a cray on deaf ears for you though; YCM is an extremely stupid community so I should of expected a lot of Naruto and Bleach fans to populate it.

[Ghoulish]

Yea you're really intelligent though aren't you believing that everyone should share the same views and opinions as you, I can tell you're not very intelligent which is what i half expect from someone who doesn't take things into consideration so let me fill you in, by the way you're describing it, your type of anime involves two people sitting at a desk and talking about paper. You don't give any reasons for your views of Naruto and Bleach being mindless other then they thought about it and put in different sub themes eg: friendship, loyalty and respect, so really there's no chance in hell you can call it mindless action unless you perceive it to be any anime that involves someone raising their fist.

On the Sasori note, I got to ask, the 100 Puppets he had were said to have killed off an entire village...so how did that old lady's 10 destroy them all, i doubt they were that strong individually?

[Desu the Blue Nerd]

Since I don't really know much about the anime you guys are talking about (not that big of a fan of Naruto and Bleach) I have a really good example of this. The last episode of Angel Beats. Almost every character is gone with barely any explanation. You'd have to watch the anime to really understand it but I was just thinking, "WTF? Why don't all those guys get their stories? They're all just as awesome as the main character and nothing?"

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

[quote name='~Soulciety~' timestamp='1284096532' post='4613157']
Yea you're really intelligent though aren't you believing that everyone should share the same views and opinions as you, I can tell you're not very intelligent which is what i half expect from someone who doesn't take things into consideration so let me fill you in, by the way you're describing it, your type of anime involves two people sitting at a desk and talking about paper. You don't give any reasons for your views of Naruto and Bleach being mindless other then they thought about it and put in different sub themes eg: friendship, loyalty and respect, so really there's no chance in hell you can call it mindless action unless you perceive it to be any anime that involves someone raising their fist.
[/quote]
By god that's an awful attempt at a paragraph you've got going there. Okay, I'll try to say this really slowly for you this time:

You are not that bright, as evidenced by this quoted passage that has merely butchered the English language and failed to deliver a cohesive point. Therefore it can be assumed that you wouldn't go for the thinking kind of show, or not quite that, but that you would be easily impressed with whatever attempt at a plot you were given. Now before you try spinning this back at me and posting a big NO U(that's essentially all that made the least bit of sense in the above piece of drivel you made) think about this, as hard as it may be to do. Naruto is littered with unspecified abilities and moves. This gives the creator limitless freedom in what can happen in a battle, oftentimes involving "god modding" and "sharingan hax" to a point where logically trying to follow a battle is a fruitless effort. Then there are events that are really quite ridiculous, such as when Tsunade brought back a large amount of people presumed dead, essentially hitting a reset button and eliminating any gravity the show held. These bounds in logic are representative of the action's control over how everything plays out. If the creator wants to use Kisame more and keep him alive longer as a means of fan service, which he did, that's just fine. The story doesn't matter enough for that to be a problem.

Then the plot that's there is simply crap. It's a monster of coming of age and omega leading the pack cliches coupled with uninteresting romances and for the most part one-dimensional characters. Throw in some classic revenge on your evil brother and the such and boom, like that a poorly done plot has been fabricated. Something this awful can be discredited, and at that point all that remains is screaming and psuedo-ninjitsu, otherwise known as mindless violence.

[Ghoulish]

Wow, i've just figured it out, you actually think that by using a small range of extended vocabulary you're intelligent LOL at you. Now from your previously made reply you have indicated 2 things, 1) You're retarted and 2) You don't even watch Naruto. You wrote that Tsunade brought everyone back to life....care to say when she did that? Because if you're talking about when Nagato brought everyone back than i can assume that the 2 things you have indicated are true, especially "1".

I love it how you don't explain an anime that you perceive to be "Not mindless action." What about if they made a whinne the poo anime? I think that would be more suited to your liking yes? You claim that the story of a vengeful brother who spites the brother in question due to the fact that he killed his clan and spared him when in fact there was an underlying cause for him to do so. Now that chain of thought brings 3 things, 1) A venegful brother hating his brother for killing his clan. 2) His brother spared him because he couldn't kill him. 3) He was ordered to by the village as an attempt to stop the Uchihas. This "mindless action" and "poor" storytelling, then leads the brother to taking revenge on the village. So the Mindless action as "you (And i can't stress that enough)" perceive it to be actually has a storyline which "you" are now calling "cliched" as an excuse to show that you have nothing else to say but to tear on anything that is involved in the show.

You are also saying that to create the most popular anime currently available you basically have to have the miniscule level of intelligence that you possess and simply follow the current formula:

Find Cliche - Expand into characters - Create a plot that goes against the cliche - create villains | :. Formula = Most successful anime!

Wow.... I'm not gonna reply anymore I don't like talking to people that think they're intelligent without showing it. *clap clap* for you.