The Legend of Zelda has invaded YGO.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

i came in here expecting this:

 

 

 

i am disappoint

 

This, YOU HAVE DISAPPOINTED ME!!!

[CrabHelmet]

did someone just say you cant ban a card because of a combo?

lolyata?

the game is filled with banned cards whos primary broken factor as due to an abusable combo.

 

fuckin premature yo.

 

While you are correct that cards can indeed be banned for the purpose of eliminating combos, the example you chose was exceedingly poor. First of all, nobody in their right mind thinks Yata should be banned from competitive play purely because of an unacceptable interaction with a card - CED - that is itself already rightfully banned from competitive play (though Konami's resolution of "Goat Control" format suggests that this logic may be beyond Konami's comprehension). Second of all, Yata is a problem without the support of CED, so it isn't banworthy purely because a combo - it's banworthy because its effect says "If the opponent does not currently possess a counter to me, you win the duel".

[byak]

i came in here expecting this:

 

 

 

i am disappoint

 

This.

 

It should've been called Worm Ancientgearwingman.

[Dark_Armed_Zombie]

A better example would be Dewloren + Symbol of Heritage + Mass Driver = FTK, which is solved by semi-limiting Dewloren, or Brionac + Premature + Cat, though Brionac is banworthy himself...

[The Sacred Ninja]

Worms would love this guy!

[Aesirson]

Genex Allys are awesome at WC10, it just sucks that Accel is non-existant.

[Tronta]

it was the first game breaking combo to come to mind, but i also mentioned premature burial in my post, if youll note, which is a much better example. its primary banning factors were cards like brionac, arms hole, etc, allowing it to be reused excessively.

 

some of the primary banning rationale behind cards like dmoc and mof were also cards they could be combo'd with. infinite loops and other abuses. of course dmoc is broken on its own before we even get into the loops.

 

butterfly dagger elma is only bannable when you consider gearfried and anything that gets points for spells being played, especially magical library.

 

etcccccc

[CrabHelmet]

Premature Burial and DMoC are both banworthy without any specific combos, while MoF isn't banworthy at all.

 

Elma is a better example.

[Tronta]

if you could still cycle reborn with mof it would be overpowered.

 

why is premature bannable?

[-Berserker-]

Once per turn, you can select 1 LIGHT monster in your Graveyard and Set it.

 

It doesn't say it's a Special Summon, so I think this can be considered The Creator support...

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

Once per turn' date=' you can select 1 LIGHT monster in your Graveyard and Set it.

 

It doesn't say it's a Special Summon, so I think this can be considered The Creator support...

[/quote']

 

I wonder, how can this be abused other than ryko and other such... It cannot be used one monsters that cannot be "set," but it can be used on various other monsters.

[Tronta]

its /not/ a special summon. its a baka summon. in fact, i think you can even yank nomis with this sheet. you cant even oppress it.

[burnpsy]

its /not/ a special summon. its a fa**** summon. in fact' date=' i think you can even yank nomis with this s***. you cant even oppress it.

[/quote']

 

Nomis cannot be set.

[Tronta]

oh yeah. forgot that clause .... embarassed >.<

 

such an obscure circumstance that really never comes up.

[CrabHelmet]

if you could still cycle reborn with mof it would be overpowered.

 

And if you could draw Pot of Greed with Upstart Goblin' date=' the Upstart Goblin would be overpowered too, right?

 

why is premature bannable?

 

Same reason as Reborn. 800 LP changes nothing.

[Tronta]

wut? thats hardly a good counter example, considering the upstart play wouldnt reliably or even likely produce a pot of greed. whereas if you have a monster reborn in the grave, you can reliably get it with mof, assuming it isnt destroyed/negated.

 

really the only similarities in those two examples is the number of cards and that each one has one overpowered banned card.

 

furthermore, i dont really understand your point on this card. no sheet it isnt banworthy. dont you recall the topic i made stipulating exactly that? it cant have been that long ago. my argument wasnt that it was banworthy. i never said that. my initial post incorporating mof was to disprove the statement that konami doesnt ban cards because of combos. and i did. mof wasnt banned because it was overpowered all by itself. mof was banned because of some of the overpowered cards it could cycle, like monster reborn. really it was banned because they believed that +0 to +1 spell cycling was overpowered, but this notion is derived from the overpowered spells you could cycle. in other words, if the targets werent overpowered by nature, cycling them would be fine. hence mask of darkness not being banned. so yeah.. unless theres a magical other reason that mof was banned, i'm kind of right here.

 

also:

premature is limited to your own grave, and binds the monster to an equip. the second clause can be both good at bad, but the point is that the card isnt reborn - 800 lifepoints. premature's main ban point had to do with arms hole, as i understand it.

 

 

your arguments are getting sloppy crabs. i wont accept a poorly drawn comparison like some of the amateurs here.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

if you could still cycle reborn with mof it would be overpowered.

 

And if you could draw Pot of Greed with Upstart Goblin' date=' the Upstart Goblin would be overpowered too, right?

 

why is premature bannable?

 

Same reason as Reborn. 800 LP changes nothing.

 

Wasn't Premature Burial banned because of the release of Brionac?

You could pitch a monster to return Premature Burial to your hand thus now being able to summon it again. Simply repeat until you have 5 monsters on the field and swing for game.

[Tronta]

and lets not forget that arms hole made it searchable.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

very true.

 

it was an undying, overpowered loop

[Tronta]

yet i still think brionac is more bannable.

[Toffee.]

Wasn't Premature Burial banned because of the release of Brionac?

You could pitch a monster to return Premature Burial to your hand thus now being able to summon it again. Simply repeat until you have 5 monsters on the field and swing for game.

And at that time' date=' we had Rescue Cat, Goyo, [i']and[/i] Brionac all in 3s.

[Cavv10]

Wasn't Premature Burial banned because of the release of Brionac?

You could pitch a monster to return Premature Burial to your hand thus now being able to summon it again. Simply repeat until you have 5 monsters on the field and swing for game.

And at that time' date=' we had Rescue Cat, Goyo, [i']and[/i] Brionac all in 3s.

 

That was a fun format. :)

[Tronta]

people who used more than one brionac are baka. twas limited in japan, and it was only konamis laziness that didnt get it limited here.

[CrabHelmet]

wut? thats hardly a good counter example' date=' considering the upstart play wouldnt reliably or even likely produce a pot of greed. whereas if you have a monster reborn in the grave, you can reliably get it with mof, assuming it isnt destroyed/negated.

 

really the only similarities in those two examples is the number of cards and that each one has one overpowered banned card.

 

furthermore, i dont really understand your point on this card. no s*** it isnt banworthy. dont you recall the topic i made stipulating exactly that? it cant have been that long ago. my argument wasnt that it was banworthy. i never said that. my initial post incorporating mof was to disprove the statement that konami doesnt ban cards because of combos. and i did. mof wasnt banned because it was overpowered all by itself. mof was banned because of some of the overpowered cards it could cycle, like monster reborn. really it was banned because they believed that +0 to +1 spell cycling was overpowered, but this notion is derived from the overpowered spells you could cycle. in other words, if the targets werent overpowered by nature, cycling them would be fine. hence mask of darkness not being banned. so yeah.. unless theres a magical other reason that mof was banned, i'm kind of right here.

[/quote']

 

First of all, for the last two formats, MoF and Reborn have both been at 0. I doubt MoF has been at 0 during that time because Konami is afraid of people using it with Reborn. (Though, again, the resolution of the "Goat Control" problem suggests that perhaps attempting to comprehend Konami's thought process is akin to attempting to comprehend Cthulhu's handsomeness.)

 

Second of all, I was addressing whether cards could be banworthy due to combos, not whether cards could be banned by Konami due to combos. Konami never makes sense, so only the former is a topic actually worthy of discussion anyhow.

 

Third of all, I never disagreed that cards could be banned by Konami or that they could be banworthy due to combos. What I disagreed with were your examples. MoF isn't banworthy due to any combos, and Konami's treatment of it during the last two formats suggests that they didn't ban it due to Reborn either, so MoF is not a good example of either point. However, we already have Butterfly Dagger - Elma proving that combos can make cards both banned and banworthy, so it doesn't matter.

 

also:

premature is limited to your own grave' date=' and binds the monster to an equip. the second clause can be both good at bad, but the point is that the card isnt reborn - 800 lifepoints.

[/quote']

 

Sure, sure, Prem is restricted to your own Graveyard and induces a weakness to s/t removal (unless the monster you Summon with it is Spell Canceler). It still falls under the category of "One-sided recursion that Special Summons any monster from your own graveyard without requiring the payment of any significant cost or requiring any significant setup".

 

premature's main ban point had to do with arms hole' date=' as i understand it.

[/quote']

 

That, plus Dewloren and Brionac, is probably why Konami banned it. However, Prem is still banworthy without them.

[Tronta]

well assuming a universe where having one generic revival card is fine, which i think should be the case, prem would be fine without other cards abusing it.

 

as to the banworthy/konami'sideaofbanworthy point, we were just arguing different points it seems.

 

mof isnt banworthy because of any combos, but it was banned because of the other cards you could use it with. if a universe existed wherein mof was limited, and cards like reborn and such were legal, it would probably be banned again.