The Pokemon Gentleman's Lounge

[Felix]

Does Crobat absorb Toxic Spikes when it's switched in? I'm wondering is it's Flyingness cancels that out.

 

I sort of finished the whole "every Pokemon" thing. There's still some more OU Pokemon I want doubles of but I now have all OU/UU and decent NUs.

 

Has anybody realised how awesome Nidoking is? I sweeped 4 Pokemon on Shoddy in an OU battle, he's a sexy guy:/

[Dark]

No, any Poison type with a Flying sub-type or levitate doesn't absorb unless Gravity is in play.

[Zexaeon]

I know how awesome Nidoking is. He's even more awesome in UU - he's on my Sun Team, and he kicks ass.

[Dark]

Apparently Rain and Sunshine are much more used in UU, because stupid TTar and Obamasnow are banned.

 

...too bad Hippopotas and Snover aren't. :/

[Zexaeon]

Rain and Sunshine can tear sheet up.

 

Also, a word of advice for Ubers Doubles. If you're running Groudon, run Victreebel next to it. If Kyogre, run Seaking next to it. You will not be son I am disappoint.

[Felix]

Seaking?... Really?

 

Is it because it's the only swiftswimmer to have Megahorn?

[Dark]

Seaking?... Really?

 

Is it because it's the only swiftswimmer to have Megahorn?

 

That's what I was thinking, but it's attack stat isn't something to not laugh at, and the only other thing it can run well is Waterfall, maybe.

 

I guess you could attempt to run a Swift Swimming CB Seaking with Megahorn and Waterfall and Return, but you'll still be fairly easily walled. And without the CB...

 

"Hello, I am your generic Lugia or Giratina. Oh, what a cute Seaking! Yes you are, you are so cute. Hey, what are you doing? MEGAHORN?! Ow, you just scratched my leg. It may bleed within the next few days."

[Felix]

Bear in mind Zex is saying run it with Kyogre, so Kyogre will sheet all over Giratina and Lugia, then presumably Seaking will do something useful. I still think there'd be better Pokemon to use though, you know, like A GOOD ONE. I want him to explain his madness.

[Dark]

Yeah, fair enough. Then again, Kyogre will run over any obstacle that comes in the way of a sweep, so anything with Swift Swim and a Dark/Bug-type attack will work. :/

 

http://www.smogon.com/dp/abilities/swift_swim

 

And you don't have much to choose from, really. Zex is a UU freak, so that shoots Kingdra in the balls.

[Tekken Ham]

But UU rain is SOOOOOOOOOO OVERPOWERED SO WE MUST BAN DAMP ROCK!!!!!!!111

 

Besides, Qwilfish is soooooooo much better than Seaking when it comes to fish things. SD/Waterfall/Explosion/Poison Jab. I mean, Water/Normal has near perfect neutral coverage and Explosion has a ridiculous base power.

[Zexaeon]

Ubers Doubles Kyogre and Seaking is ideally to be used a lead.

 

I've been looking into the Doubles Metagame, and Ubers is one of those things that I've looked into.

 

In Ubers Doubles, as uncommon a metagame as it is, the most common leads are Groudon and Kyogre, and their Running Mate is typically a Swift Swimmer or Chlorophyll-er.

 

LO Seaking running alongside Kyogre as a lead is designed to counter most Ubers Doubles leads. Allow me to elaborate.

 

Kyogre @ Choice Scarf

 

Timid, 31 Spe/SpA IVs, 252 Spe, 252 SpA

 

Rain Dance

Ice Beam

Thunder

Hidden Power [Dragon]

 

Seaking @ Life Orb

 

Adamant / Jolly (Although not likely to be necessary), 31 Atk/Spe, 252 Atk, 252 Spe

 

Waterfall

Megahorn

Return

Protect

 

 

Don't stone me yet. I know you all see some attacks on there that you think are retarded. I'm gonna explain.

 

 

Groudon & Jumpluff

 

Jumpluff is gonna outspeed everything with Groudon's Sunlight. Groudon will underspeed Kyogre, so it will be Sunny. Jumpluff will try to eliminate Seaking with some Giga Drain or Solarbeam. Now, it will know full well that Kyogre is gonna kill it with some Ice Beam, but that doesn't matter, since Jumpluff's task as Groudon's running mate is always gonna be to either eliminate or heavily hinder Kyogre's running mate.

 

That's why you piss it off by having Seaking Protect for the turn, so that Kyogre Ice Beams it before it has a chance to do anything to you.

 

Groudon is likely going to aim something at Kyogre, so you will have to deal with that, but it's the most efficient means of hampering your opponent's lead strategy if this is the pair. Kyogre will likely survive, though, and can Ice Beam Groudon on the next move if it's foolish enough to stay in. Seaking can then wreak havok if applicable, or switch.

 

In Ubers Doubles, it's very important that you keep anything that can benefit from the weather safe for as long as possible.

 

The rest of the battle is in the air from there, but you have successfully countered your opponent's lead.

 

 

Groudon and Victreebel

 

Victreebel is often Life Orb or Choice Specs here. And with Chlorophyll, it's gonna outspeed most of its opponents. Scarfogre will not outspeed it, even a Timid Max one. That's why we have Seaking with Protect again, while Ogre goes and uses Rain Dance.

 

Seaking will foil the incoming Solarbeam (which in all liklihood is aimed at it), and Kyogre can proceed to use Rain Dance. It will likely then have to endure an incoming hit from Groudon. With the weather now in your favor, your opponent will be forced to switch out if they want to live. You can do the same thing for Kyogre, and leave Seaking in to thrash whatever is going to switch in - your best bet is to use Waterfall.

 

After all, Life Orb + STAB + Rain + Max Attack+ = pain, even against something that resist water (Although an in-switching Palkia will resist it heavily. The Silver lining is that Palki is like, never on the same team as Groudon). Rayquaza can ruin your day though, so beware of that. Against a neutral enemy, Seaking is, in all liklihood, going to OHKO whatever it hits, or at the least, put a serious dent in them, following with a 2HKO on the next move.

 

However, your opponent may try to switch Groudon back in on the next move, so I advise Return or Megahorn on the second move for that 2HKO. Do not reswitch in Kyogre until AFTER Groudon comes back, otherwise you'll lose your advanatge.

 

The great thing about this opposition is that you basically foil your opponent's lead pair totally. Few people expect to see Rain Dance on Kyogre, so it's unlikely they'll be switching away from you on the first move. After making it rain and putting Seaking in a position of dominance, you send Groudon and Victreebel on the run, and unless your opponent wants one of the two dead, they aren't going to be able to safely switch in this pair together unless you play stupidly.

 

So you basically completely ruin their lead in this scenario. Skymin is also a great partner for KyKing, as it will only help to thrash this combination of opponents.

 

Kyogre and Palkia

 

It's gonna be raining both ways here. Your Scarfogre is gonna be using HP Dragon to smack up Palkia. Seaking is gonna offer its assistance by bashing it with Return. The combination is likely to kill off Palkia before it has a chance to make a move.

 

The opponent's Ogre is gonna try and use Thunder to dispatch Seaking, or perhaps wound Kyogre. If it does hit Seaking, well, you have to deal with that. It's the price you pay for eliminating Palkia, a major threat when alongside Kyogre. Skymin can just Seed Flare the opposing Ogre though, so it would make a suitable switch-in after Palkia falls.

 

 

Kyogre and Seaking

 

Mirror matches can be annoying, eh?

 

Your opponent is, in all probability, running a fast Ogre like you. It might tie with yours.

 

Seaking is gonna outspeed them both, regardless of their speed. So aim a Return at the other Kyogre, and hope for the best. Yours is going to want to drop a Thunder on one or the other. Really, there is no concrete means of handling this match up, and you may want to switch into a suitable counter.

 

 

 

 

Those four match-ups are among the most common leads in Ubers Doubles. Since leads are almost always the same in this meta, victory is all about making a set combination that the other opponent is not expecting.

 

 

 

 

So obviously, the beauty of this Combination is that it can counter the most common leads, and at least match up against one of them. It can also handle the abundance of psychics in Ubers, and Darkrai leads, with kyogre backing up Seaking against the things it can't easily handle.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

Counters

 

What you really need to look out for is Rayquaza. Air Lock will neutralize Seaking's advantage, and a Waterfall aimed at Rayquaza without Rain and with Resistance is not going to hurt it badly at all. Kyogre's Ice Beam can mess it up, but that's only if it's still in at the same time. So a Rayquaza switch in can screw you if Kyogre is locked into Thunder or Rain Dance. However, a Rayquaza lead wil lbe handled by Kyogre relatively easily - and yes, Rayquaza is an occasional lead in Ubers Doubles due to the importance of shutting down weather.

 

Shedinja will wall these two completely, and can screw up a switch in with Will-O-Wisp before running away.

 

Beware of opponent's that predict who you're targeting - switching Blissey in against Kyogre will block most of the damage, and Giratina will likewise wall Seaking pretty easily. However, the lucky thing with doubles is the ability to swap opponents, but this is still small consolation if Kyogre isn't locked into Ice Beam or HP Dragon, since Thunder isn't going to harm Giratina very much. However, Seaking can still beat Blissey to bloody death, but expect a suitable switch in to block this.

 

Follow Me pokes will also ruin Seaking's day if they're played right.

 

 

Team Options

 

As previously mentioned, Skymin works great beside these two. It will 4X Resist Solarbeams aimed at Seaking or Kyogre, and can Seed Flare Groudon and opposing Kyogre amazingly. Without Sunlight to aid them, Jumpluff and Victreebel will also be owned with Air Slash (a great general move to use), and Skymin's Speed and Special Attack are also just all-around awesome assets to have for dealing with other threats. Air Slash can also be used to flinch Rayquaza, and Psychic makes a good general move as well.

 

Forretress can block most of the common switch-ins to KyKing, and can also Explode - in order to use this to best effect, make sure you've either got a Ghost out (such as your own Shedinja or Giratina), or a Protect-user. However, your opponent can also be wise to this, and will likely switch a Giratina or Shedinja (or both) in to block this explosion. As such, your Ghost/Protect-user must be fully prepared to handle these threats.

 

Palkia is an amazing partner for Kyogre, and it can be even more useful late in the game, rather than as Kyogre's lead running mate - kind of like a back-up Seaking of sorts.

 

As Tekken pointed out, Quilfish is another good partner for Kyogre, and can be surprisingly effective in Ubers all thanks to its ability and a couple notable techniques.

 

 

So make of all this what you will.

[Dark]

tl;dr, I'll read it later. But even in theory, Seaking?! It sounds horrible, but I've never seen it play, so I couldn't give you an accurate response.

[Zexaeon]

Basically, it really is all about Megahorn. Megahorn is what makes Seaking playable in Ubers.

 

If it weren't for that, there are plenty of faster, and stronger, swift swimmers that can do Seaking's job better. Even Buizel.

[Dark]

Don't you mean Floatzel?

 

I got a Calm Lugia after five soft resets on my SS. I didn't care enough to go for Timid or Bold. Did I make a huge mistake? <_____<

[Zexaeon]

Calm is fine.

 

I got an adamant one, and had forgotten to saved before catching it, so I was kinda stuck with it, as I was unwilling to replay everything I hadn't saved. >_>

 

 

And yes, I meant Floatzel. Quilfish and Kabutobs are also nice.

[Felix]

If any body wants to WiFi, I've got some new Pokemon I want to try.

[Dark]

Gah, I want to keep competitive battling, but I don't seem to have the time. Felix, if you can make your test team, I can battle you on Shoddy over the weekend.

[Felix]

That's cool.

 

Have ou tried the new smogon team builder for making Shoddy teams? It's pretty cool. http://www.smogon.com/dp/buildteam/

[Dark]

Yeah, but it automatically sets the IVs, EVs and moveset. So if you want to tweak around with stuff, it's not the best.

 

But if you are slapping together a standard OU team, it is really time-saving.

[Felix]

Even so, if you want to tweak it, it's just tweaking. It still saves heap loads of time.

[Dark]

Ehh, I forgot that you can edit teams after you make 'em. So, fair enough.

 

But you don't have a choice between moves. If you wanted Quick Attack instead of Pursuit on a Scizor, but Pursuit is the main option, and you choose a standard CBZor set, you'd have to go through editing the team to change a move on Scizor. And Americans people are too lazy to do that. I know I am.

[Zexaeon]

I don't bother with the Team Builder. Mostly because I always tend to use smogon as just an outline, if I look at it at all, and then do all the EVs, IVs, and Moves the way I want.

 

Honestly, my most recent team is the most Smogon-y thing I've ever made, and it's all OUs.

 

I've really been getting into the Doubles Metagame. It's like.... it's almost like a completely different game. Tiers are different (or practically non-existent, really, since the only real segregation is with Ubers), the most commonly seen attacks are different, and of course, strategy is completely different. Switching out happens very infrequently, for example, and prediction is even more important than it is in standard.

 

It's pretty awesome.

[Dark]

I don't bother with the Team Builder. Mostly because I always tend to use smogon as just an outline' date=' if I look at it at all, and then do all the EVs, IVs, and Moves the way I want.

 

Honestly, my most recent team is the most Smogon-y thing I've ever made, and it's all OUs.

 

I've really been getting into the Doubles Metagame. It's like.... it's almost like a completely different game. Tiers are different (or practically non-existent, really, since the only real segregation is with Ubers), the most commonly seen attacks are different, and of course, strategy is completely different. Switching out happens very infrequently, for example, and prediction is even more important than it is in standard.

 

It's pretty awesome.

[/quote']

 

But Shoddy won't have a double battle simulator until V2.0, so you are required to use WiFi, and that may not always give you an accurate prediction of what a metagame would be like where everyone has equal opportunities for IVs, EVs and whatnot.

 

No offense, but I hate people who go out of their way to use UU's on an OU team. If you like UU's so much, go ahead and play the UU tier. I'm fine with having UU's on your team (I use an NU; Porygon2 ftw!), but it gets annoying when every comment is "oh, he's a fag who uses all OU's". Well, let's see. It's an OU metagame. And OU's are obviously comparitively the best Pokemon, and definitely better than UU. It's great that you are using UU, but I could care less. :/ [/rant]

[Zexaeon]

=/ I don't diss anyone for using them. I just prefer UUs, myself. And I do in fact play in the UU tier often.

 

I'm sure you weren't specifically addressing me with your rant, but I just felt like clarifying.

 

 

Anyhow, Smogon's forums have a few threads dedicated to Doubles, and you can find a few people who will play on PBR with you (and Smogonites do tend to make their in-game Pokemon with high IVs anyway).

 

Plus you can find some really good opponents online in PBR anonymously.

 

But yeah, it is an uncommon meta, and I'd like to see its popularity expand.

[Dark]

THIS IS WHY WE NEED SHODDY 2.0. D:

 

I definitely think a tier listing and maybe some Pokemon analyses would increase the popularity of Doubles.