Saber Hole - short print super?

[Tronta]

to explain it a bit differently:

you can bottomless anything with 1500+ attack because it doesnt negate the summon. so bottomlessing a gyarus will not stop it's effect. you can bottomless only when the last thing to have resolved was the summoning of a monster with 1500+ attack.

solemn, on the other hand, negates the summon. so if you solemn your opponents gyzarus, it was never summoned, thus never gets his effect.

 

the same logic applies to calling priority on effects like dad's and jd's. if you solemn them, they cant, if you bottomless them, they can.

derp.

[werewolfjedi]

to explain it a bit differently:

you can bottomless anything with 1500+ attack because it doesnt negate the summon. so bottomlessing a gyarus will not stop it's effect. you can bottomless only when the last thing to have resolved was the summoning of a monster with 1500+ attack.

solemn' date=' on the other hand, negates the summon. so if you solemn your opponents gyzarus, it was never summoned, thus never gets his effect.

 

the same logic applies to calling priority on effects like dad's and jd's. if you solemn them, they cant, if you bottomless them, they can.

derp.

[/quote']

 

and horn misses the timing because it needs to be a successful summon, and not just an attempt?

[Killey]

It's not really missing the timing on the card so much as the card's activation requirements were never met to begin with. However, in the above scenario the summoning of JD, DAD, and Gyzarus all meet the requirements for Black Horn to be activated hence you can use the card and negate the summon of those monsters thus preventing them from activating their effects.

 

When you negate the summon it's considered that the monster never hit the field or it wasn't succesfully summoned and thus they can't activate their effects. BTH on the other hand just says destroy and remove from play not negate so once those cards hit the field and you don't respond with a counter trap to negate their summon it is treated as a succesful summon and they have priority to activate their effects before you can activate a trap card.

 

I want to go a bit more in depth with that but I'm afraid that you'll get more confused if I go any further.

[werewolfjedi]

It's not really missing the timing on the card so much as the card's activation requirements were never met to begin with. However' date=' in the above scenario the summoning of JD, DAD, and Gyzarus all meet the requirements for Black Horn to be activated hence you can use the card and negate the summon of those monsters thus preventing them from activating their effects.

 

When you negate the summon it's considered that the monster never hit the field or it wasn't succesfully summoned and thus they can't activate their effects. BTH on the other hand just says destroy and remove from play not negate so once those cards hit the field and you don't respond with a counter trap to negate their summon it is treated as a succesful summon and they have priority to activate their effects before you can activate a trap card.

 

I want to go a bit more in depth with that but I'm afraid that you'll get more confused if I go any further.

[/quote']

 

no, I understand that, they basicly made it so that it rarely works because of turn priorty.

[Tronta]

so, original point i was trying to make is that this card is much like one of my favorite cards: "horn of miss the timing"

also called horn of heaven.

 

the joke being that when you run it you realize just how much it misses the timing.

[Crimson General]

Missing the Timing =/= Bieng unable to activate

[Tronta]

the difference is negligible, as missing the timing applies mostly to monster effects.

 

Sometimes a Trigger Effect says that "when" a condition happens' date=' you "can" activate its effect. In this case, you are only allowed to activate the effect when the condition being met was the last thing to happen in the game [b'](activating cards & effects that haven’t resolved yet doesn’t count).[/b]

 

"Thunder King Rai-Oh" negates Special Summons the same way that "Solemn Judgment"' date=' "Horn of Heaven", and "Black Horn of Heaven" negate Special Summons. You can only use the effect against a Special Summon which does not use a Chain Link. [b']You cannot use the effect when a monster is Special Summoned during the resolution of another card.[/b]

 

so yea, thats pretty much the area that 90% of your missed activations will fall under.

as i said, the difference between phrases in this case is negligible.

plus, horn of miss the timing sounds funnier than horn of cannot activate.

[Crimson General]

the difference is negligible' date=' as missing the timing applies mostly to monster effects.

 

Sometimes a Trigger Effect says that "when" a condition happens, you "can" activate its effect. In this case, you are only allowed to activate the effect when the condition being met was the last thing to happen in the game (activating cards & effects that haven’t resolved yet doesn’t count).

 

"Thunder King Rai-Oh" negates Special Summons the same way that "Solemn Judgment"' date=' "Horn of Heaven", and "Black Horn of Heaven" negate Special Summons. You can only use the effect against a Special Summon which does not use a Chain Link. [b']You cannot use the effect when a monster is Special Summoned during the resolution of another card.[/b]

 

so yea, thats pretty much the area that 90% of your missed activations will fall under.

as i said, the difference between phrases in this case is negligible.

plus, horn of miss the timing sounds funnier than horn of cannot activate.

 

It's not really that negiligible because in the case of Horn, you hafta back up to before activating it and set it back down and leave it there. in the case of miss the timing (such as Poison Draw Frog) not only will it miss, it will stay in the graveyard where it went.

[Tronta]

they still miss their activation requirements due to the resolution of another cards effect. and letting your opponent see your facedowns is equivalent to destroying them in many situations.

[werewolfjedi]

they still miss their activation requirements due to the resolution of another cards effect. and letting your opponent see your facedowns is equivalent to destroying them in many situations.

 

of course it is funny to "make a mistake" and show them a card like horn of heaven, which in i's case makes them not summon most of their monsters, thinking you could kill it with the effect.

 

 

but mind games like that don't really work all that well unless you can mix them up so that s/he doesn't know what facedown it is.

[Crimson General]

they still miss their activation requirements due to the resolution of another cards effect. and letting your opponent see your facedowns is equivalent to destroying them in many situations.

 

I'm not really arguing, but I'd rather have a face-down Horn of Heaven my opponant knows about then no Horn of Heaven at All.

[Jazin Kay]

I'd rather have a face-down Saber Hole my opponant knows about then no Saber Hole at All.

[Tronta]

@crimson, it depends if you have multiple sts or not.

assume you have 2-3 sts set, possibly all counter traps in some sort of counter fairy deck. none of them is dark bribe and none of them is solemn and one of them is black horn. not an uncommon scenario. if he knows which one is black horn, then lyla/mst/breaker knows exactly who to hit. leaving it facedown reduces it to a guessing game, which isnt bad. but when they know which one it is, its just a target.

 

the correct thought is:

i'd rather have a blackhorn that my opponent knows about, when he doesnt know which one it is.

of course then you run the chance that theyll try to provoke it with a distraction, a synchro or cydra or something in order to lure it out so they can plop down dad or jd safely.

gotta be careful.

[Crimson General]

@Tronta: XD dude, I'm not argueing wethere or not them knowing is better or not. Of Course you would rather your opponent have to guess. I'm just trying to signifie the differencebetween missing the timing and bieng unable to activate for anyone who the concept confuses. It doesn't matter for us, we understand the concept of both, and therefore can differentiate.

[Tronta]

ah. alright, fair enough then.

technically they are different things then.

derp.