Honestly

[Killey]

There becomes the issue with Honest. It can create OTK and reverse kill scenario's without your opponent being able to do anything about it do to how sneaky Honest is. It also contains good defensive stats with 1900 DEF and then has the ability to return itself to your hand to be used offensively. It's just way too good in light based decks and is the ideal tech choice when running a heavy light base.

 

It gives weaker LIGHT decks like FRD's and Batteryman that extra boost but it's just way too good in multiple aspects. The day darks get a Honest countepart is the day Yugioh goes straight to hell. We're pretty close to it right now though.

[Wizarus]

There becomes the issue with Honest. It can create OTK and reverse kill scenario's without your opponent being able to do anything about it do to how sneaky Honest is. It also contains good defensive stats with 1900 DEF and then has the ability to return itself to your hand to be used offensively. It's just way too good in light based decks and is the ideal tech choice when running a heavy light base.

 

It gives weaker LIGHT decks like FRD's and Batteryman that extra boost but it's just way too good in multiple aspects. The day darks get a Honest countepart is the day Yugioh goes straight to hell. We're pretty close to it right now though.

 

Why would Darks get a Honest counterpart anyway? Isn't Allure enough?

[Wizarus]

There becomes the issue with Honest. It can create OTK and reverse kill scenario's without your opponent being able to do anything about it do to how sneaky Honest is. It also contains good defensive stats with 1900 DEF and then has the ability to return itself to your hand to be used offensively. It's just way too good in light based decks and is the ideal tech choice when running a heavy light base.

 

It gives weaker LIGHT decks like FRD's and Batteryman that extra boost but it's just way too good in multiple aspects. The day darks get a Honest countepart is the day Yugioh goes straight to hell. We're pretty close to it right now though.

 

Why would Darks get a Honest counterpart anyway? Isn't Allure enough?

[Wizarus]

There becomes the issue with Honest. It can create OTK and reverse kill scenario's without your opponent being able to do anything about it do to how sneaky Honest is. It also contains good defensive stats with 1900 DEF and then has the ability to return itself to your hand to be used offensively. It's just way too good in light based decks and is the ideal tech choice when running a heavy light base.

 

It gives weaker LIGHT decks like FRD's and Batteryman that extra boost but it's just way too good in multiple aspects. The day darks get a Honest countepart is the day Yugioh goes straight to hell. We're pretty close to it right now though.

 

Why would Darks get a Honest counterpart anyway? Isn't Allure enough?

[werewolfjedi]

There becomes the issue with Honest. It can create OTK and reverse kill scenario's without your opponent being able to do anything about it do to how sneaky Honest is. It also contains good defensive stats with 1900 DEF and then has the ability to return itself to your hand to be used offensively. It's just way too good in light based decks and is the ideal tech choice when running a heavy light base.

 

It gives weaker LIGHT decks like FRD's and Batteryman that extra boost but it's just way too good in multiple aspects. The day darks get a Honest countepart is the day Yugioh goes straight to hell. We're pretty close to it right now though.

 

Why would Darks get a Honest counterpart anyway? Isn't Allure enough?

 

dark eventualy gets everything, don't you know that?

[werewolfjedi]

There becomes the issue with Honest. It can create OTK and reverse kill scenario's without your opponent being able to do anything about it do to how sneaky Honest is. It also contains good defensive stats with 1900 DEF and then has the ability to return itself to your hand to be used offensively. It's just way too good in light based decks and is the ideal tech choice when running a heavy light base.

 

It gives weaker LIGHT decks like FRD's and Batteryman that extra boost but it's just way too good in multiple aspects. The day darks get a Honest countepart is the day Yugioh goes straight to hell. We're pretty close to it right now though.

 

Why would Darks get a Honest counterpart anyway? Isn't Allure enough?

 

dark eventualy gets everything, don't you know that?

[werewolfjedi]

There becomes the issue with Honest. It can create OTK and reverse kill scenario's without your opponent being able to do anything about it do to how sneaky Honest is. It also contains good defensive stats with 1900 DEF and then has the ability to return itself to your hand to be used offensively. It's just way too good in light based decks and is the ideal tech choice when running a heavy light base.

 

It gives weaker LIGHT decks like FRD's and Batteryman that extra boost but it's just way too good in multiple aspects. The day darks get a Honest countepart is the day Yugioh goes straight to hell. We're pretty close to it right now though.

 

Why would Darks get a Honest counterpart anyway? Isn't Allure enough?

 

dark eventualy gets everything, don't you know that?

[burnpsy]

Oh' date=' and Honest gives Konami an excuse to make a DARK Counterpart.

And knowing them, it will decrease the ATK of the Opponent's monster by the ATK of the attack target.

[/quote']

 

Or, they could do this:

 

[align=center]

 

During your Main Phase' date=' you can return this card from the field to its owner's hand. During either player's Damage Step, when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to double the ATK + 3000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote'][/align]

 

Knowing how broken DARK is, maybe this would finally get a few things banned.

[burnpsy]

Oh' date=' and Honest gives Konami an excuse to make a DARK Counterpart.

And knowing them, it will decrease the ATK of the Opponent's monster by the ATK of the attack target.

[/quote']

 

Or, they could do this:

 

[align=center]

 

During your Main Phase' date=' you can return this card from the field to its owner's hand. During either player's Damage Step, when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to double the ATK + 3000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote'][/align]

 

Knowing how broken DARK is, maybe this would finally get a few things banned.

[burnpsy]

Oh' date=' and Honest gives Konami an excuse to make a DARK Counterpart.

And knowing them, it will decrease the ATK of the Opponent's monster by the ATK of the attack target.

[/quote']

 

Or, they could do this:

 

[align=center]

 

During your Main Phase' date=' you can return this card from the field to its owner's hand. During either player's Damage Step, when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to double the ATK + 3000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote'][/align]

 

Knowing how broken DARK is, maybe this would finally get a few things banned.

[Flame Dragon]

Honest is much better than shrink..I don't get the comparison. Essentially' date=' 1 Honest allows your monster to do its full attack as battle damage, while destroying the monster at the same time...you could compare it to shrink..but instead of halving its attack it sends it to zero.

[/quote']

I'm not saying Shrink is as good as Honest. But the deal damage and kill your opponent's attacking monster parts are the same.

 

The next 2 honest would be like your own monster attacking you directly' date=' one time for each.

So essentially if I triple honest with the calculator while it has 3600 against a monster of yours that has 2200, you would take the 3600, then 2200, then 2200 again. 8000 OTK without having to attack with my other monsters. Shrink doesn't do that....

[/quote']

 

Yes, but you just used 3 Honests. As I said on a one on one base Honest is like Shrink, just you trade being attribute specific for more power. Its is only when more then one is used at once that a problem is created.

[Flame Dragon]

Honest is much better than shrink..I don't get the comparison. Essentially' date=' 1 Honest allows your monster to do its full attack as battle damage, while destroying the monster at the same time...you could compare it to shrink..but instead of halving its attack it sends it to zero.

[/quote']

I'm not saying Shrink is as good as Honest. But the deal damage and kill your opponent's attacking monster parts are the same.

 

The next 2 honest would be like your own monster attacking you directly' date=' one time for each.

So essentially if I triple honest with the calculator while it has 3600 against a monster of yours that has 2200, you would take the 3600, then 2200, then 2200 again. 8000 OTK without having to attack with my other monsters. Shrink doesn't do that....

[/quote']

 

Yes, but you just used 3 Honests. As I said on a one on one base Honest is like Shrink, just you trade being attribute specific for more power. Its is only when more then one is used at once that a problem is created.

[Flame Dragon]

Honest is much better than shrink..I don't get the comparison. Essentially' date=' 1 Honest allows your monster to do its full attack as battle damage, while destroying the monster at the same time...you could compare it to shrink..but instead of halving its attack it sends it to zero.

[/quote']

I'm not saying Shrink is as good as Honest. But the deal damage and kill your opponent's attacking monster parts are the same.

 

The next 2 honest would be like your own monster attacking you directly' date=' one time for each.

So essentially if I triple honest with the calculator while it has 3600 against a monster of yours that has 2200, you would take the 3600, then 2200, then 2200 again. 8000 OTK without having to attack with my other monsters. Shrink doesn't do that....

[/quote']

 

Yes, but you just used 3 Honests. As I said on a one on one base Honest is like Shrink, just you trade being attribute specific for more power. Its is only when more then one is used at once that a problem is created.

[Flame Dragon]

Honest is much better than shrink..I don't get the comparison. Essentially' date=' 1 Honest allows your monster to do its full attack as battle damage, while destroying the monster at the same time...you could compare it to shrink..but instead of halving its attack it sends it to zero.

[/quote']

I'm not saying Shrink is as good as Honest. But the deal damage and kill your opponent's attacking monster parts are the same.

 

The next 2 honest would be like your own monster attacking you directly' date=' one time for each.

So essentially if I triple honest with the calculator while it has 3600 against a monster of yours that has 2200, you would take the 3600, then 2200, then 2200 again. 8000 OTK without having to attack with my other monsters. Shrink doesn't do that....

[/quote']

 

Yes, but you just used 3 Honests. As I said on a one on one base Honest is like Shrink, just you trade being attribute specific for more power. Its is only when more then one is used at once that a problem is created.

[Toffee.]

My playset of Twilight-Edition Honests came today!

YAYZ! :3

 

During your Main Phase' date=' you can return this card from the field to its owner's hand. During either player's Damage Step, when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to double the ATK + 3000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote']

Knowing Konami, they would do just that^

 

Now watch, they give it this effect:

This card cannot be Special Summoned. During either player's Damage Step' date=' when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can Remove from play 2 DARK monsters in your Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to the ATK + 1000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote']

 

Just to be a noob, and make DAD-based decks even more ridiculous.

[Toffee.]

My playset of Twilight-Edition Honests came today!

YAYZ! :3

 

During your Main Phase' date=' you can return this card from the field to its owner's hand. During either player's Damage Step, when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to double the ATK + 3000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote']

Knowing Konami, they would do just that^

 

Now watch, they give it this effect:

This card cannot be Special Summoned. During either player's Damage Step' date=' when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can Remove from play 2 DARK monsters in your Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to the ATK + 1000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote']

 

Just to be a noob, and make DAD-based decks even more ridiculous.

[Toffee.]

My playset of Twilight-Edition Honests came today!

YAYZ! :3

 

During your Main Phase' date=' you can return this card from the field to its owner's hand. During either player's Damage Step, when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to double the ATK + 3000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote']

Knowing Konami, they would do just that^

 

Now watch, they give it this effect:

This card cannot be Special Summoned. During either player's Damage Step' date=' when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can Remove from play 2 DARK monsters in your Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to the ATK + 1000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote']

 

Just to be a noob, and make DAD-based decks even more ridiculous.

[Toffee.]

My playset of Twilight-Edition Honests came today!

YAYZ! :3

 

During your Main Phase' date=' you can return this card from the field to its owner's hand. During either player's Damage Step, when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can send this card from your hand to the Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to double the ATK + 3000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote']

Knowing Konami, they would do just that^

 

Now watch, they give it this effect:

This card cannot be Special Summoned. During either player's Damage Step' date=' when a face-up DARK monster you control battles, you can Remove from play 2 DARK monsters in your Graveyard to have that monster gain ATK equal to the ATK + 1000 of the opponent's monster it is battling, until the End Phase.[/quote']

 

Just to be a noob, and make DAD-based decks even more ridiculous.

[Tronta]

disagree that honest is only a problem with more than one.

by using a light deck, even if you dont have honest, you no longer need to worry about anyone attacking ever. most situations, people will too afraid to attack, assuming you have a sizable hand.

but to give a more specific example, take the card lumina. lumina is zombie master, but better. the only downside is it having only 1000 attack. but with honest in existence, few will attack lumina because theyll just take a 1000 and lose a monster. he breaks the only balancing factor of a key card in an already far overpowered archetype. given how recyclable honest is with beckoning, you cant even throw monsters at it till the opponent runs out of honests.

 

it's just a stupid card. so is kalut for that matter, but at least he's only +1400. i'm fine with shrink, because at least he's either on the field or it's the opponents turn.

 

also, saying cool story bro is really faggy. it's a thread /about/ stories. if you dont want to contribute or read, just shut the funk up and leave. stop pretending to be witty by quoting psuedo-memes, you dont impress anyone.

[Flame Dragon]

by using a light deck' date=' even if you dont have honest, you no longer need to worry about anyone attacking ever. most situations, people will too afraid to attack, assuming you have a sizable hand.

[/quote']

So if those 3 Honests become Sakuretsu Armor you get the same result. They see a face down and become to afraid to attack. Really it is a basic part of the game to attack despite the fact you may not come out on top.

 

but to give a more specific example' date=' take the card lumina. lumina is zombie master, but better.

[/quote']

How is she better? They are the same.

 

the only downside is it having only 1000 attack. but with honest in existence' date=' few will attack lumina because theyll just take a 1000 and lose a monster.

[/quote']

Again if people were to afraid to attack because they might loss a monster then lets ban every card that destorys an attacking monster because as long as their around people will be to afraid to attack.

 

he breaks the only balancing factor of a key card in an already far overpowered archetype.

The banning of Honest' date=' if needed, would come into play after the cards that are breaking LS are banned, meaning the archtype wouldn't be overpowered.

 

given how recyclable honest is with beckoning, you cant even throw monsters at it till the opponent runs out of honests.

The thing is now they know you have Honest in your hand meaning they won't just throw monsters at it, they will be smart and find a way around it or the monster.

 

it's just a stupid card. so is kalut for that matter' date=' but at least he's only +1400. i'm fine with shrink, because at least he's either on the field or it's the opponents turn.

[/quote']

So the fact that it's on the field changes little. Sure it can be destroyed but small and trap destruction isn't as common as monster. Plus their are cards that can still remove an Honest in hand.

[Tronta]

first:

heavy storm exists. trunade, cold wave, mst also exist. if it's on the field, it's a lot easier to deal with. in fact, almost the entire meta is based on that. given the cards in frequent use in this meta, honest is damn near impossible to get rid of. maybe card destruction, but then beckoning light comes back.

 

second:

zombie master needs to send one monster. lumina is discard one card. (discard also works for some more obscure cards, but the primary point there is one of any kind of card. furthermore, lumina mills. another huge plus. her only downside in comparison is less attack strength, but with honest it doesnt make a difference.

 

3rd:

addressed already. but it's a cylinder + sakuretsu from the hand, at 3, stackable and recyclable. how very fair.

 

4th:

agreed.

 

5th:

the thing is it makes every light monster on your side of the field gain the effect: "this monster cannot be destroyed by battle" that's ridiculous.

 

6th:

the card on the field makes all the difference. you also must not have played a day in this meta if you believe that st destruction is less common than monster destruction. not counting general destruction, we have lyla, breaker, delta crow, heavy, trunade, mst, cold wave, and bestiari. counting general destruction we explode from holy sheet too many cards. they arent necessarily more than monster destruction, but its not uncommon.

 

only card commonly used that hits honest reliably is trap dustshoot, limited.

[Flame Dragon]

heavy storm exists. trunade' date=' cold wave, mst also exist. if it's on the field, it's a lot easier to deal with. in fact, almost the entire meta is based on that. given the cards in frequent use in [b']this meta[/b], honest is damn near impossible to get rid of. maybe card destruction, but then beckoning light comes back.

And in all how many of those cards can you run? And this meta is a bad one. If Honest were to be banned you can't base it on this meta.

 

zombie master needs to send one monster. lumina is discard one card. (discard also works for some more obscure cards' date=' but the primary point there is one of any kind of card. furthermore, lumina mills. another huge plus. her only downside in comparison is less attack strength, but with honest it doesnt make a difference.

[/quote']

I didn't know if over looked Master needing a monster or Lumina not needing one, but I did over look that fact. Not only Honest can make up for her low ATK. Most traps can do that.

 

addressed already. but it's a cylinder + sakuretsu from the hand' date=' at 3, stackable and recyclable. how very fair.

[/quote']

Sakurestu is at 3. The fact that it stacks the way it does is a problem. All cards are recyclable, just Honest is a bit more so. however in doing so your opponent knows you have it meaning your opponent is able to get ready for it.

 

5th:

the thing is it makes every light monster on your side of the field gain the effect: "this monster cannot be destroyed by battle" that's ridiculous.

That effect only lasts once. Not only that but again Sakurestu will basicly give the same thing. As can Shrink.

 

the card on the field makes all the difference. you also must not have played a day in this meta if you believe that st destruction is less common than monster destruction. not counting general destruction' date=' we have lyla, breaker, delta crow, heavy, trunade, mst, cold wave, and bestiari. counting general destruction we explode from holy s*** too many cards. they arent necessarily more than monster destruction, but its not uncommon.

[/quote']

From looking at your list I see 4 cards at 1, 1 that is highly limited in use, and two decent ones. In looking over some of the top 16 decks from the last SJC most removal came in the form of duel removal. Even so those added up to less then 10 cards, and yes that is a fair amount it is still only 1/4 the deck meaning your opponent won't always have the cards in time to deal with your traps. Adding on to that though a good number of those cards came in the form of broken cards meaning in a good format they wouldn't be a problem.

 

only card commonly used that hits honest reliably is trap dustshoot' date=' limited.

[/quote']

You seem to have over looked the fact that just by removing your opponent's attack mode monster you have dealt with Honest

[Tronta]

1) that didnt even look like a coherent sentence. reword it.

 

2) most traps are more vulnerable than honest.

 

3) not all cards are recyclable after an attack has already been declared. getting ready for honest by not attacking and having to waste monster removal, which you've stipulated is limited, on killing something with a pathetic attack like lumina is broken in and of itself.

 

4) sakuretsu is still more vulnerable than honest. as is shrink, unless the person playing it is attacking. this i dont find to be too broken anyway. it's one for one. but what it isnt is an invincible shield that cylinder+sakuretsu's any monster you attack with.

 

5) nobody cares about sakuretsu at 3. it's not chainable, therefore vulnerable, therefore bad. comparing sakuretsu to honest is an asinine move and you know it. they're incomparably different.

 

6) i counted only specifically st destruction. lets list general destruction/bouncing/negation (which i assume is the same as "duel removal"): gyzarus, jd, celest, ryko, dad, snipe hunter, caius, brionac, black rose, absolute zero, raiza, stardust, heraklinos, arcanite, icarus attack, solemn judgment, mist wurm and probably more i'm absent mindedly missing. point is, sts are vulnerable. so are monsters, but with all this stacked on top of straight up st removal, they're really funking weak. monster specific removal is limited to things like fissure and smashing ground and a few other odds and ends. your deck has to be specifically loaded to deal with honest. you could side deck, but this assumes a major change in the deck, and it assumes that such a change will even aid it.

honestly, i think almost every card on that list needs to be banned to fix this game. but whatever.

 

in a good format we wouldnt have this discussion because none of these cards would exist.

 

 

7) eh. removing a field of 2-3 monsters without attacking is rather difficult. especially when that field can remanifest itself every turn. lightsworns are pretty funked up.

[werewolfjedi]

cards like honest makes me want to mind crush for no reason and guess honest before my attacks.

 

yes, honest worries me enough that I will take a chance and possibly use up 2 cards for nothing just to make sure there is no FRAKING honest!

[Tronta]

^thats the problem with honest. it's not an amazing play, but the sad part is, if i thought i was going to win that turn, i might do it too.