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heavy Storm - With solid Logic

GingerChris

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The Dark One Newbie

The Dark One

Posted
Posted

Toni you sound like you are simply trying to flame the players on YCM' date=' which is pissing me off. You also implied that the concept of the 3/02 rule makes the people here who believe its a good idea bad players. Personally I think that the 3/0 rule would be different, but it doesnt matter. I dont think that its a good rule cause I think that there are cards that arent balenced enough to be at 3 but they arent strong enough to be bannable. Heavy Storm is kind of one of these.

[/quote']

 

Go look at the banlist. Think for a moment. You'll realize that Heavy Storm is actually a better card than a large number of the cards on that banlist.

 

Why do you think this is? It's because of the benefits that Heavy Storm has on the game. These benefits to the game put Heavy Storm in a class of cards with Mirror Force and possibly Torrential Tribute. Objectively, they are broken cards. They are allowed to stick around under certain conditions so as to improve the game as we see it.

 

Notice the fact that they are still broken cards. The QUESTION is not whether they are too good, for they most certainly are, but whether this merits their banning.

 

thats pretty much what we have now

 

i mnot trying to flame people' date=' im sorry if thats how its coming off, i dont hate anyone on this site i just hate their outlook on yugioh and that shouldnt conflict with my actual oppinion of a person so im not giving any personal attacks

 

what im saying is the 3/0 thing yes technically its good in theory, but its not good as its never going to happen, therfore concetrating on it is foolish

[/quote']

 

Crab Helmet doesn't even really post anymore on YCM except to write up big troll-threads in the general section. He doesn't magically control the minds of every member of this site.

 

This all being said, he has most certainly had an influence on YCM. But you can't possibly think that's a bad thing. The average intelligence of the YCM-member has improved drastically for one simple reason: If you're a fucktard, you get reamed until you either leave or grow something with at least a mild resemblance to a brain. The disadvantage is, obviously, that many people do simply imitate rather than actually attempting to understand the logic going on here. You tried to imitate at first, but you were caught repeatedly in traps, etc. Now you just rebel.

 

The outlook that a game should be determined with the smallest possible factor of luck is quite sensible for the maintenance of meaningful competitive play. All these random limits and semis we have going on here don't help that in the slightest.

 

Yes, Heavy Storm does have measurable benefits on the game by existing. The QUESTION is whether the card need be here anymroe for thsoe benefits to continue to apply. The fact is we have alternatives. They aren't perfect. They are definitely counterable. But that's ok. We don't need a "once-per-game-I-get-insane-advantage-because-I-drew-a-good-card-and-lured-you-into-setting-too-much" play. We don't need OTKs. Since these more balanced alternatives aren't broken, and therefore can be run in multiples, we don't even need a particularly high success-rate for these cards to be effective in usurping Heavy's role.

 

Will they see play if Heavy is banned? Perhaps not immediately, but the meta will adjust itself eventually.

 

Also, it's stupid to say that an idea is dumb because corporate dickheads won't do it.

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tonisanoob Newbie

tonisanoob

Posted
Posted

i think that, this discussion has eventually boiled down to oppinionated withs with no real proper answear, tbh i would like to see maybe super advanced events go on just to see how they pan out, after readon all that bas been said on hs i still belive that its fine at 1

 

however, the thing is, even if they did ban storm, your right the meta would shift slightly and things would continiue

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Dark_Armed_Zombie Newbie

Dark_Armed_Zombie

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Posted

This is what I say:

 

You: *draw Heavy Storm, your opponent has 3 set* SWEETNESS! Now I can set up OTKs and completly own my oppoenent!!! *You look at your pitiful, pitiful OTKless hand* Oh, I should probably wait then *ends turn*

Opponent: *draws Heavy Storm, has perfect OTK in hand, you have 1 set trap* I play Heavy Storm and pwn you to death.

You: ... FFFFFLLLLLIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!! *0 LP*

 

Heavy Storm, has both pros and cons, just like every other card:

 


  • Pros:
     
  • Mass S/T destruction, and it's the only one :D
  • No cost :D
  • Allows for quick turn arounds :D
  • Can be used outside of OTKing
  • It has a flying cow, A FLYING COW FOR PETE'S SAKE MAN!!!
     
    Cons:
     
  • No cost D:
  • Allows super quick recovery and ownage D:
  • OTK setter upper D:
  • Can be used outside of OTKing
     
    As we can see, it's great but is a bit overpowered. A simple cost, or restriction, would solve this.
     
    Now, lets look at Giant Trunade
     
    Pros:
     
  • Sets up for OTKs
  • Doesn't destroy your set s/t's
  • It has a giant face
     
    Cons:
     
  • Doesn't destroy the set s/t's
  • Must OTK that turn or make a huge move so you don't lose momentum
  • Joey used it... wait <<

 

As we can see they are both very similar. The fact that Heavy destroys makes it a bit OP, but for now, if you play smart, it isn't really THAT big of a thorn. Should it be banned? Probably, but personally, I'd rather keep it until we get something that has a cost or restriction such as destroying only face-downs and/or you take LP dmg for each destroyed, something like that.

 

Until we get something to replace it that is fair and just, Heavy should stay, but I wouldn't mind trying a format without it to see just how big of an impact it will have.

 

Edit: There are many cards that do close to the same thing that Heavy does, just with a limit, cost, or set back, such as Cold Wave, Giant Trunade, Trap Stun, MST, and Twister (bad, but you get my point). Personally, I don't think much would change if it were banned, so here's the final conclusion.

 

It doesn't matter. Whether it is banned or not, meta and YGO wouldn't slow down much but simply miss a stride and then catch-up very quickly.

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The Dark One Newbie

The Dark One

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I don't think Giant Trunade, Trap Stun, and Cold Wave are comparable replacements for Heavy.

 

They can fill its role as a facilitator of OTKs, but they don't actually provide a destruction effect, so they don't actually punish a player for overextending in the S/T zone. They have their uses, but they don't manage that much.

 

Malevolent Catastrophe, Black Rose Dragon, and Arcanite Magician are better examples to give. Then there is, of course, all the broken teme-support like DAD, Gyz, JD.

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Dark_Armed_Zombie Newbie

Dark_Armed_Zombie

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Posted

I don't think Giant Trunade' date=' Trap Stun, and Cold Wave are comparable replacements for Heavy.

 

They can fill its role as a facilitator of OTKs, but they don't actually provide a destruction effect, so they don't actually punish a player for overextending in the S/T zone. They have their uses, but they don't manage that much.

 

Malevolent Catastrophe, Black Rose Dragon, and Arcanite Magician are better examples to give. Then there is, of course, all the broken teme-support like DAD, Gyz, JD.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, Malevolent I think would be better if it didn't require an attack to activate. I'm mainly talking about the OTKness with Heavy because you mainly use Heavy to clear the back-row of problems so you can swing for a big move. Cold Wave is a good first turn move if you don't have other stuff that's important to set because it keeps their field clear.

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Dark_Armed_Zombie Newbie

Dark_Armed_Zombie

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Posted

it sounds like the dark one agrees with me... but i cant tell.

 

Although you know wht the biggest arguement (besides that its costless removal) that people seem to ahve is that it sets up for OTKs. By that logic ban Cold Wave' date=' Trap Stun and Giant Trunade too.

[/quote']

 

[/topic]

 

I don't particularly care either way but I would like to see a format go with it banned and see just how the game changes.

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~ P O L A R I S ~ Newbie

~ P O L A R I S ~

Posted
Posted

---^

 

thats pretty much what we have now

 

i mnot trying to flame people' date=' im sorry if thats how its coming off, i dont hate anyone on this site i just hate their outlook on yugioh and that shouldnt conflict with my actual oppinion of a person so im not giving any personal attacks

 

 

what im saying is the 3/0 thing yes technically its good in theory, but its not good as its never going to happen, therfore concetrating on it is foolish

[/quote']

 

This site is entirely based on the theoretical improvement of the game. What WILL happen is irrelevant.

 

ITT: People jabroniing

 

Add to our jabroniing or do something about our jabroniing, just don't jabroni about our jabroniing.

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RyanAtlus Newbie

RyanAtlus

Posted
Posted

WOW! The Ultimate Showdown!

 

About Storm

As a Stall player, I realize the importance of being able to maintain a backline.

If I lose, it's seldomly due to Storm. I can chain to Storm. And Cold Wave, Trunade, Gyzarius, JD,...

The new problem seems to have become Traps Stun. Storm usually serves to funk Traps, so TS does the job just as good. I'd like to see a meta with Storm at 0 and Trap Stun at 1.

This will not, however, stop people from OTK'ing. Other ways, like MST and all the sheet I just mentioned will regain popularity.

Quote by someone on this site: Put Harpie's Feather Duster back at 3, then we'll see who keeps complaining about Storm. XD

 

@ Toni

Not every member considers Crab as a god. But, he is the mods that un-n00bed me.

This website is different from others; only a relatively small percentage of the members is a pro player. But most of them try to help the players who aren't.

If you don't show respect for other members and their opinions, and keep yapping about other sites that are way better, you deserve a stripe through your name.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

YuGiOh in General

It's still a rich man's game. If I had a million to spend on card games, I could win worlds. Difference is; my entire Deck is worth less than an Honest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now, YCMaker will take the role of Chuck Norris and give us his opinion.

 

He should, but I don't even know whether he actually plays the game :s

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DesCrow Newbie

DesCrow

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Posted

Storm makes the game too fast, and is essential a Harpies Feather Duster. It is essentially

Heavy Feather Duster

You can only activate this card if you have 1 or less Spell or Trap cards. Destroy all Spell and Trap cards your opponent controls. Oh, and yours, if you are dumb enough to set any in ygo.

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tonisanoob Newbie

tonisanoob

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

@ Toni

Not every member considers Crab as a god. But' date=' he is the mods that un-n00bed me.

This website is different from others; only a relatively small percentage of the members is a pro player. But most of them try to help the players who aren't.

If you don't show respect for other members and their opinions, and keep yapping about other sites that are way better, you deserve a stripe through your name.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

 

who on this site has respect for anyone? also lol feelings over the intenet, also if you cant see that for the past probably 6 months, ive been trying to help everyone on the tcg section then thats quite strange

 

 

[u']YuGiOh in General[/u]

It's still a rich man's game. If I had a million to spend on card games, I could win worlds. Difference is; my entire Deck is worth less than an Honest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now, YCMaker will take the role of Chuck Norris and give us his opinion.

 

He should, but I don't even know whether he actually plays the game :s

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Mister Sir Newbie

Mister Sir

Posted
Posted
[spoiler=In essence][b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:47:52 PM)[/b]
Well
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:47:58 PM)[/b]
I know this is late but
[color=#006400][b]BTM says: (8:48:05 PM)[/b][/color]
cool story bro?
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:48:16 PM)[/b]
I don't see why people are so worked up about Heavy Storm bra
[color=#006400][b]BTM says: (8:48:23 PM)[/b][/color]
I know
[color=#006400][b]BTM says: (8:48:29 PM)[/b][/color]
its like, way to be butthurt
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:48:37 PM)[/b]
Well
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:48:43 PM)[/b]
Let me just explain my pov
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:49:00 PM)[/b]
Since I'm leaning towards the 'don't ban it' side
[color=#006400][b]BTM says: (8:49:14 PM)[/b][/color]
same
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:49:15 PM)[/b]
This is the tl;dr version
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:50:00 PM)[/b]
People who want it banned:  I can't play around my opponent Heavy Storm even if they stack it or not, and it helps monsters out too much, and I like overextending
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:50:41 PM)[/b]
People who don't want it banned:  You shouldn't be making the mistake of overextending in the first place, so it's your fault
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:50:50 PM)[/b]
but instead, you're just blaming heavy storm.
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:50:54 PM)[/b]
amirite?
[color=#006400][b]BTM says: (8:50:59 PM)[/b][/color]
ur rite
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:51:18 PM)[/b]
IMO
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:51:36 PM)[/b]
If you are overextending so often with non-chainable cards that don't help you
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:51:45 PM)[/b]
you kind of deserve to be storm'd
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:52:08 PM)[/b]
Wanting to overextend is not a good reason to ban a card
[color=#006400][b]BTM says: (8:52:41 PM)[/b][/color]
Pretty much
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:52:48 PM)[/b]
I mean
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:53:13 PM)[/b]
I understand the reasoning behind both sides' opinions, but one seems to make much more sense logically than the other.
[color=#006400][b]BTM says: (8:53:25 PM)[/b][/color]
same
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:54:09 PM)[/b]
In essence
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:54:10 PM)[/b]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTBPdVpdMc
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:54:13 PM)[/b]
^that
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:54:50 PM)[/b]
ok maybe not that.
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:54:51 PM)[/b]
but
[b]Luxord [TD] says: (8:54:55 PM)[/b]
you get my point.[/spoiler]

Don't flame me for saying stuff in that chat.

I'm just trying to explain why I'm taking up one point of view over the other.
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Toffee. Newbie

Toffee.

Posted
Posted

And now' date=' YCMaker will take the role of Chuck Norris and give us his opinion.

 

He should, but I don't even know whether he actually plays the game :s

[/quote']

 

YCMaker would appear and be like: "Origionaly I set this website up for people to make cards. Now-a-days everyone just uses it as a flame thrower"

 

But I doubt he would say that, word for word

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werewolfjedi Newbie

werewolfjedi

Posted
Posted

personally, I think heavy at 1 is fine, since it does kill all of your spells and traps too, (or at least it should, since, you know, endymion.)

 

and just to say, trap stun seems to be more effective, since most quickplays aren't as powerful, and you can chain trap stun to the activation of a trap to negate it as well as stop all the others for the turn.

 

it is a nifty little piece of work.

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RyanAtlus Newbie

RyanAtlus

Posted
Posted

personally' date=' I think heavy at 1 is fine, since it does kill all of your spells and traps too, (or at least it should, since, you know, endymion.)

 

and just to say, trap stun seems to be more effective, since most quickplays aren't as powerful, and you can chain trap stun to the activation of a trap to negate it as well as stop all the others for the turn.

 

it is a nifty little piece of work.

[/quote']

 

I think it's kinda weird Trap Stun's still at 3 too...

It's cold Wave's annoying little brother.

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