I'm gonna try my own list.

[Guest Star]

X Saber at 0 instead of summoner monk?

 

What? Why would Summoner Monk be banned instead of X-Saber Airbellum? If I wasn't going to ban Airbellum' date=' I'd ban Rescue Cat.[/b']

 

Brain control not at 0?

 

Brain Control should be at 0; if it's not, I'll change that.

 

Cyber Dragon at 0?

 

Read the other posts in this thread that explain that; I don't feel like repeating myself.

 

Magical Explosion/Machine Duplication stays at 3 while Trooper gets lonley? :'(

 

Yes? Machine Duplication works with Tuningware, Cyber Valley, and other Machine-Type Monsters. Trooper is fine at one.

[CrabHelmet]

Airbellum over Kitty?

 

Airbellum's only use is in Cat Synchro. Rescue Cat works in other Decks' date=' and contributes more to the game.

[/quote']

 

Rescue Cat is designed to field 3200 ATK for a single Normal Summon, creates 2-card OTKs, and provides ludicrous advantage with Samnite; it invites abuse by its very nature.

 

Trio over AOA and Battlemania based solely on two cards versus one card?

 

I wasn't really sure which to ban' date=' as I said earlier, and Ojama Trio seemed like the better decision since it does play a role in more than one OTK.

[/quote']

 

What's its other OTK, the one with Ultimate Tyranno and H - Heated Heart?

 

Also, All-Out Attacks is involved in multiple OTK's too; I can think of two others (Morphing Jar #2 and Cactus Fighter).

 

Instead of counting OTK's and seeing which is in more of them, or counting how many cards you'll need to ban, examine instead what the cards will bring to the game.

 

Random lone TIV?

 

It can't really be at three' date=' but there should be something to take out Blackwings, and Tribe-Infecting Virus can do that without ruining the game.

[/quote']

 

You have abandoned the fundamental philosophy of banlist construction.

 

And Phantom of Chaos in what is clearly not an extreme list?

 

I didn't want to go ban Norleras and Ocean Dragon Lord - Neo Daedalus and the other cards that Phantom of Chaos combos with' date=' so I just banned Phantom of Chaos.

[/quote']

 

If you're going for moderate 3-0 (which many of the absent changes imply), Phantom isn't exactly your top priority. If you're going for extreme 3-0, you'll find that Norleras is a problem without Phantom and Neo-Daedalus's status depends on how extreme your list is but is the same regardless of Phantom's position.

[Flame Dragon]

I didn't ban Chaos Sorcerer; I believe I left it at one.

Why?

Swords of Revealing Light isn't a broken card' date=' so I don't understand the "counterability =/= balance" statement there. Gravity Bind and Level Limit - Area B basically stop attacks as well. There's plenty of Spell and Trap Destruction so that if people are worried about Swords of Revealing Light, they can destroy it easily. I don't see how that's a problem.[/b']

While Swords isn't broken, at 3 their is no balance. The difference between Gravity Bind and Level Limit is that those affect both players and so are only useful in decks built around them. Swords can be put into most decks.

 

Also since you brought up Norleras and Ocean Dragon Lord - Neo Daedalus both of those are bannable in the own right. Norleras, while being a pain to summon turn the gameinto a top deck race, one in which you have a lead.

 

Neo Lord is easy to summon with Daedalus only needing one tribute and getting one monster out for a turn isn't hard in the least, and once Neo hits the field it's as good as good game.

 

Also, what think you about Royal Swamp Eel?

[MetaGame]

X Saber at 0 instead of summoner monk?

 

What? Why would Summoner Monk be banned instead of X-Saber Airbellum? If I wasn't going to ban Airbellum' date=' I'd ban Rescue Cat.[/b']

 

Brain control not at 0?

 

Brain Control should be at 0; if it's not, I'll change that.

 

Cyber Dragon at 0?

 

Read the other posts in this thread that explain that; I don't feel like repeating myself.

 

Magical Explosion/Machine Duplication stays at 3 while Trooper gets lonley? :'(

 

Yes? Machine Duplication works with Tuningware, Cyber Valley, and other Machine-Type Monsters. Trooper is fine at one.

 

Summoner Monk is just as necessary in Cat as Rescue Cat and X Saber are. Summoner Monk also makes first turn Stardust/Assault much more plausible and is usable in a number of other needless combos.

 

Brain wasn't mentioned.

 

You gave a reasonable reason for Cydra.

 

Machine Duplication requires less skill to use than Card Trooper does. Dupe has played THE key role (next to explosion) in every turbo deck that was decent in the last two years. Banning explosion saves on having to make another fix later when another Explosion ftk is discovered. Banning Dupe lets the game have the fairer Card Trooper at three.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Magician of Faith is left banned because this would be a slower Meta, and I don't like the idea of people being able to get back the Spells for no cost.

 

If there's a problem with a card that shouldn't be used in multiples, you should look to see if that card is actually the cause of any unacceptable combo.

 

That would allow something like Metamorphosis to be used at least six times in a duel.

 

1: Since when was Metamorphosis a problem?

2: If it's such a problem, why not have it at 0 instead of 3?

 

On an unrelated note, Black Whirlwind should go to 0. Not really because of stacking or anything, but rather because it turns all Blackwings into floaters.

[~Emo~]

CED @3?

 

Thats insane.

[Exiro]

I limited Tribe-Infecting Virus because Blackwings weren't really hit much with the list' date=' and I thought it might be good as an Anti-Meta Strategy. Figured it might make for some interesting Decks while not damaging the game that much. I could be wrong, though.

[/quote']

 

1. If TIV is broken, it should be banned no matter what. If you don't think it's broken, put it at 3. I read no specific reason why it's at 1.
   
2. TIV doesn't stop the OTKs that Blackwings create. It's not chain link 2.
   
3. Put TT at 3 and Cold Wave at 0, and the problem is pretty much stopped.
   

 

 

Why ban Allure of Darkness? It's a balanced +0' date=' and in this Meta DARK Decks wouldn't really be used as much, so I don't see how - even in terms of the "Current Meta" - it could be an issue.

[/quote']

 

Why ban Quick Attack? It's a balanced +0, and in this Meta ANY deck would really.... owait.

 

So why can DARK decks enjoy something that's pretty much the same as Quick Attack?

 

 

Black Whirlwind I'm not sure at all. I've never used a Blackwing Deck or faced Blackwings' date=' but from what I can tell it can't be allowed to stay at 3. So I put it at 1 until I can get a better sense of Blackwing Decks.[/b']

 

Black Whirlwind basically just replaces itself after the Normal Summon that it is immediately followed by. It's a +1 every turn (except debatably the turn it was activated). It forces opponent's to run s/t destruction, and if they don't, you gain a ridiculous advantage over the opponent. Ban.

[Tickle Me Emo]

Airbellum over Kitty? Trio over AOA and Battlemania based solely on two cards versus one card? Random lone TIV? And Phantom of Chaos in what is clearly not an extreme list?

 

I stopped readin after this post cause it somes up my entire thoughts on this topic in one Crab Helmet style post.

[Guest Star]

Airbellum over Kitty?

 

Airbellum's only use is in Cat Synchro. Rescue Cat works in other Decks' date=' and contributes more to the game.

[/quote']

 

Rescue Cat is designed to field 3200 ATK for a single Normal Summon, creates 2-card OTKs, and provides ludicrous advantage with Samnite; it invites abuse by its very nature.

 

How do you figure, though? Without Airbellum, there's no Beast Tuner that Rescue Cat can bring out, meaning it's not going to bring out much at all.

 

Trio over AOA and Battlemania based solely on two cards versus one card?

 

I wasn't really sure which to ban' date=' as I said earlier, and Ojama Trio seemed like the better decision since it does play a role in more than one OTK.

[/quote']

 

What's its other OTK, the one with Ultimate Tyranno and H - Heated Heart?

 

Also, All-Out Attacks is involved in multiple OTK's too; I can think of two others (Morphing Jar #2 and Cactus Fighter).

 

There's the new Reptiless monster as well, the one that destroys all 0 ATK monsters on the field and lets you draw 1 card for each, which works extremely well with Ojama Trio.

 

Instead of counting OTK's and seeing which is in more of them, or counting how many cards you'll need to ban, examine instead what the cards will bring to the game.

 

Random lone TIV?

 

It can't really be at three' date=' but there should be something to take out Blackwings, and Tribe-Infecting Virus can do that without ruining the game.

[/quote']

 

You have abandoned the fundamental philosophy of banlist construction.

 

Tribe-Infecting Virus is worse than Lightning Vortex in that it's weak, so it can easily be destroyed in battle. It'll get its effect what, once? Then it'll be destroyed and that'll be the end of it.

 

And Phantom of Chaos in what is clearly not an extreme list?

 

I didn't want to go ban Norleras and Ocean Dragon Lord - Neo Daedalus and the other cards that Phantom of Chaos combos with' date=' so I just banned Phantom of Chaos.

[/quote']

 

If you're going for moderate 3-0 (which many of the absent changes imply), Phantom isn't exactly your top priority. If you're going for extreme 3-0, you'll find that Norleras is a problem without Phantom and Neo-Daedalus's status depends on how extreme your list is but is the same regardless of Phantom's position.

 

How is Norleras a problem without Phantom of Chaos? It requires a lot of setup to Summon, so much so that I don't see it as much of an issue.

 

I didn't ban Chaos Sorcerer; I believe I left it at one.

Why?

 

It's hardly a threat with a lot of good LIGHT and DARK monsters banned.

Swords of Revealing Light isn't a broken card' date=' so I don't understand the "counterability =/= balance" statement there. Gravity Bind and Level Limit - Area B basically stop attacks as well. There's plenty of Spell and Trap Destruction so that if people are worried about Swords of Revealing Light, they can destroy it easily. I don't see how that's a problem.[/b']

While Swords isn't broken, at 3 their is no balance. The difference between Gravity Bind and Level Limit is that those affect both players and so are only useful in decks built around them. Swords can be put into most decks.

 

Seems fair enough. I'll put it back at one, then.

 

Also since you brought up Norleras and Ocean Dragon Lord - Neo Daedalus both of those are bannable in the own right. Norleras, while being a pain to summon turn the gameinto a top deck race, one in which you have a lead.

 

See what I said above.

 

Neo Lord is easy to summon with Daedalus only needing one tribute and getting one monster out for a turn isn't hard in the least, and once Neo hits the field it's as good as good game.

 

That requires A Legendary Ocean and two Tributes. It's a 5 card combo.

 

Also, what think you about Royal Swamp Eel?

 

I see it as partially banworthy, as it can be easily replaced in Fish Decks with something like Rose, Warrior of Revenge and the way it is now promotes the ability to OTK easily. Coelacanth still contributes to Fish Decks, so I'd say if one of them had to be banned, it'd be Royal Swamp Eel.

 

X Saber at 0 instead of summoner monk?

 

What? Why would Summoner Monk be banned instead of X-Saber Airbellum? If I wasn't going to ban Airbellum' date=' I'd ban Rescue Cat.[/b']

 

Brain control not at 0?

 

Brain Control should be at 0; if it's not, I'll change that.

 

Cyber Dragon at 0?

 

Read the other posts in this thread that explain that; I don't feel like repeating myself.

 

Magical Explosion/Machine Duplication stays at 3 while Trooper gets lonley? :'(

 

Yes? Machine Duplication works with Tuningware, Cyber Valley, and other Machine-Type Monsters. Trooper is fine at one.

 

Summoner Monk is just as necessary in Cat as Rescue Cat and X Saber are. Summoner Monk also makes first turn Stardust/Assault much more plausible and is usable in a number of other needless combos.

 

Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode isn't really banworthy, so something that gets it out easily shouldn't be considered banworthy anyway. You can't just draw Rescue Cat and Summon it? Without Airbellum, there's no automatic-Synchro so I don't see the issue there.

 

Brain wasn't mentioned.

 

You gave a reasonable reason for Cydra.

 

Machine Duplication requires less skill to use than Card Trooper does. Dupe has played THE key role (next to explosion) in every turbo deck that was decent in the last two years. Banning explosion saves on having to make another fix later when another Explosion ftk is discovered. Banning Dupe lets the game have the fairer Card Trooper at three.

 

Card Trooper is nothing more than a beatstick. While not being banworthy, it interacts with multiple copies of itself in ways that are bad for the game. It's better to leave it at 1 and leave Machine Duplication at 3 so both cards have at least some chance to be used.

 

Magician of Faith is left banned because this would be a slower Meta' date=' and I don't like the idea of people being able to get back the Spells for no cost.[/quote']

 

If there's a problem with a card that shouldn't be used in multiples, you should look to see if that card is actually the cause of any unacceptable combo.

 

It's not so much that it's banworthy, but it could start to be a problem when your opponent uses cards like Reasoning six times in one duel.

 

That would allow something like Metamorphosis to be used at least six times in a duel.

 

1: Since when was Metamorphosis a problem?

 

It's not, but how is it fair if your opponent gets out 5 Fusion Monsters with such ease?

 

2: If it's such a problem, why not have it at 0 instead of 3?

 

See above.

 

On an unrelated note, Black Whirlwind should go to 0. Not really because of stacking or anything, but rather because it turns all Blackwings into floaters.

 

Alright; like I said, I don't know much about Blackwings, so that isn't really my best area.

 

CED @3?

 

Thats insane.

 

Learn to read?

[Manjoume Thunder]

I am too lazy to quote your giant post.

@the part where LV > TIV

No. A monster can be reused easier than a spell. And if you destroy 1 monster with LV it's a -1 if you destroy 1 monster with TIV it's a +0.

[Cypress]

if DSF is banned, why ban demise?

[Manjoume Thunder]

if DSF is banned' date=' why ban demise?

[/quote']

 

To unlimit ARA.

[Sander]

if DSF is banned' date=' why ban demise?

[/quote']

 

Because it still OTK's without DSF.

[Manjoume Thunder]

if DSF is banned' date=' why ban demise?

[/quote']

 

Because it still OTK's without DSF.

 

And this too.

[Kira the Savior]

With all of these banlists going around' date=' I figured I'd follow the trend and make my own. It may not be good, so I'm sorry. I haven't played that much lately, so I'm not really sure what should be where.

 

FORBIDDEN (At 0.)

 

BRAIN CONTROL

BRIONAC, DRAGON OF THE ICE BOUNDARY

CARD OF SAFE RETURN

CHIMERATECH OVERDRAGON

CRUSH CARD VIRUS

CYBER DRAGON

CYBER-END DRAGON

CYBER-TWIN DRAGON

DARK ARMED DRAGON

DARK STRIKE FIGHTER

DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDON

EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE (Really? Banned?)

GLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUS

GORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESS

JUDGMENT DRAGON

MONSTER REBORN

OJAMA TRIO

PHANTOM OF CHAOS

SANGAN

SNIPE HUNTER

TRAP DUSTSHOOT

ULTIMATE OFFERING

UNITED WE STAND

X-SABER AIRBELLUM (Ban kitty this thing deserves to live)

 

LIMITED (At 1.)

 

BLACK WHIRLWIND

TRIBE-INFECTING VIRUS (Should stay banned. Its an easier version of Snipefor monsters. It cant do spells but is guarenettted and can kill multiple at once, therefore it atleast should share Snipes position

 

UNLIMITED (At 3.)

 

ADVANCED RITUAL ART

ALLURE OF DARKNESS

D.D. WARRIOR LADY

DESTINY DRAW

FISSURE

FOOLISH BURIAL

FUTURE FUSION

GOBLIN ZOMBIE

GOLD SARCOPHAGUS

GOYO GUARDIAN (Um....not so sure about this one)

GREEN BABOON, DEFENDER OF THE FOREST

LEFT ARM OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE

LEFT LEG OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE

MAGICAL STONE EXCAVATION

MANTICORE OF DARKNESS

MASK OF DARKNESS

METAMORPHOSIS

MEZUKI

MIND CRUSH

MONSTER GATE

MYSTICAL SPACE TYPHOON

NECROFACE

PLAGUESPREADER ZOMBIE

RAIZA THE STORM MONARCH

REASONING

REINFORCEMENT OF THE ARMY

RESCUE CAT

RIGHT ARM OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE

RIGHT LEG OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE

SMASHING GROUND

SUMMONER MONK

SWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHT (9 turns of no attacking says no)

 

Ask for explanations if you'd like. I'm not sure where to place Scapegoat or Torrential Tribute, so some advice would be helpful. Thanks.

 

I posted comments only about the ones I may have problems with. honestly I dont see Exodia being banworthy still

[Flame Dragon]

It's hardly a threat with a lot of good LIGHT and DARK monsters banned.

Again' date=' dark is the most common attribute in the game, most decks will run at least 10. As for Light their is Ryko, Lyla, Mallon, and MoF (which I think you unbanned since we've stopped talking about it) all 4 of which can go into most decks. Plus their are several synchro monster that are light and 2 of those are level 4 and 5 meaning most decks will use them just for something to synchro into. Other good or at least decent lights are PMD, Kuraz, Tuningware, and Creator. That might not be a lot, but you only really need 5 to take full advantage of Sorcerer. Hell you can run 2 and still use him.

 

See what I said above.

Even if he is a pain to summon, it isn't hard to build a deck around him. From their getting him out will only be as hard as getting him in your hand, and once you do, as I already said, it becomes a race as to who can top deck the best cards.

 

That requires A Legendary Ocean and two Tributes. It's a 5 card combo.

How two tributes? Ocean makes Daedalus level 6 meaning he'll need only 1 tribute' date=' so now it's 4 card. Even if that may be a bit much, once he get him out, which isn't that hard in a deck made around him, it's gg since you have a 2900 ATK beatstick while your opponent has nothing.

 

I see it as partially banworthy, as it can be easily replaced in Fish Decks with something like Rose, Warrior of Revenge and the way it is now promotes the ability to OTK easily. Coelacanth still contributes to Fish Decks, so I'd say if one of them had to be banned, it'd be Royal Swamp Eel.

So should it be banned? It is much like how it is with Cat and Airbellum.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

You'll have to just keep banning Tuners if Coel isn't banned. Fishborg's coming out, what're you gonna do? Ban it over Coel too?

 

Coel doesn't CONTRIBUTE to Fish, he just breaks them. He's practically designed solely for OTKs. Even without Tuners, Coel + Skill Drain's still a Two-Card OTK.

[Flame Dragon]

You'll have to just keep banning Tuners if Coel isn't banned. Fishborg's coming out' date=' what're you gonna do? Ban it over Coel too?

 

Coel doesn't CONTRIBUTE to Fish, he just breaks them. He's practically designed solely for OTKs. Even without Tuners, Coel + Skill Drain's still a Two-Card OTK.

[/quote']

Fishborg isn't a problem. It's level 1 so at best you'll get out a level 5 synchro, of which only Catastor is really going to be used.

 

Would Skill Drain let you attack with the monsters you summoned?

[HORUS]

Why the funk is Airbellum banned?

[Sunshine Jesse]

Why the f*** is Airbellum banned?

 

Because it can combo with Rescue Cat.

Although I still think Cat is the one that should be banned

[Kira the Savior]

Why the f*** is Airbellum banned?

 

Because it can combo with Rescue Cat.

Although I still think Cat is the one that should be banned

 

along with most of the world. kitty deserves the hammer not Aribellum

[Mysty]

With all of these banlists going around' date=' I figured I'd follow the trend and make my own. It may not be good, so I'm sorry. I haven't played that much lately, so I'm not really sure what should be where.

 

FORBIDDEN (At 0.)

 

ALL-OUT ATTACKS

BRAIN CONTROL

BRIONAC, DRAGON OF THE ICE BOUNDARY

CARD OF SAFE RETURN

CHIMERATECH OVERDRAGON

CRUSH CARD VIRUS

CYBER DRAGON

CYBER-END DRAGON

CYBER-TWIN DRAGON

DARK ARMED DRAGON

DARK STRIKE FIGHTER

DEMISE, KING OF ARMAGEDDON

EVIL HERO DARK GAIA

EXODIA THE FORBIDDEN ONE

GLADIATOR BEAST GYZARUS

GORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESS

JUDGMENT DRAGON

MIND CONTROL

MONSTER REBORN

OJAMA TRIO

PHANTOM OF CHAOS

SANGAN

SNIPE HUNTER

TRAP DUSTSHOOT

ULTIMATE OFFERING

UNITED WE STAND

X-SABER AIRBELLUM

 

LIMITED (At 1.)

 

BLACK WHIRLWIND

TRIBE-INFECTING VIRUS

 

UNLIMITED (At 3.)

 

ADVANCED RITUAL ART

ALLURE OF DARKNESS

D.D. WARRIOR LADY

DESTINY DRAW

FISSURE

FOOLISH BURIAL

FUTURE FUSION

GOBLIN ZOMBIE

GOLD SARCOPHAGUS

GOYO GUARDIAN

GREEN BABOON, DEFENDER OF THE FOREST

LEFT ARM OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE

LEFT LEG OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE

MAGICAL STONE EXCAVATION

MANTICORE OF DARKNESS

MASK OF DARKNESS

METAMORPHOSIS

MEZUKI

MIND CRUSH

MONSTER GATE

MYSTICAL SPACE TYPHOON

NECROFACE

PLAGUESPREADER ZOMBIE

RAIZA THE STORM MONARCH

REASONING

REINFORCEMENT OF THE ARMY

RESCUE CAT

RIGHT ARM OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE

RIGHT LEG OF THE FORBIDDEN ONE

SMASHING GROUND

SUMMONER MONK

SWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHT

 

Ask for explanations if you'd like. I'm not sure where to place Scapegoat or Torrential Tribute, so some advice would be helpful. Thanks.

 

Explain why the bolded are where they are and why the italicized aren't on the list (I placed them on the list where I thought they would be good, but I might be wrong). Of course there is also the Airbellum/RC debate.

[Guest Star]

For starters, I've made a few changes.

 

BLACK WHIRLWIND and RESCUE CAT have been added to the Forbidden List.

 

SWORDS OF REVEALING LIGHT has been added to the Limited List.

 

MAGICIAN OF FAITH and X-SABER AIRBELLUM have been added to the Unlimited List.

 

All-Out Attacks not being banned has been explained earlier in the thread, and I might change it. Evil Hero Dark Gaia, I'm not so sure I want to ban it. It's an OTK that takes a little more skill than most others. Sangan...seriously?

 

Tribe-Infecting Virus was explained earlier in the thread.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

You'll have to just keep banning Tuners if Coel isn't banned. Fishborg's coming out' date=' what're you gonna do? Ban it over Coel too?

 

Coel doesn't CONTRIBUTE to Fish, he just breaks them. He's practically designed solely for OTKs. Even without Tuners, Coel + Skill Drain's still a Two-Card OTK.

[/quote']

Fishborg isn't a problem. It's level 1 so at best you'll get out a level 5 synchro, of which only Catastor is really going to be used.

 

Would Skill Drain let you attack with the monsters you summoned?

 

Yeah, you discard a card, Summon 4 Fish, activate Skill Drain, attack.

[Flame Dragon]

You'll have to just keep banning Tuners if Coel isn't banned. Fishborg's coming out' date=' what're you gonna do? Ban it over Coel too?

 

Coel doesn't CONTRIBUTE to Fish, he just breaks them. He's practically designed solely for OTKs. Even without Tuners, Coel + Skill Drain's still a Two-Card OTK.

[/quote']

Fishborg isn't a problem. It's level 1 so at best you'll get out a level 5 synchro, of which only Catastor is really going to be used.

 

Would Skill Drain let you attack with the monsters you summoned?

 

Yeah, you discard a card, Summon 4 Fish, activate Skill Drain, attack.

Never thought that skill drain would be able to let you do that. I do agree, Coel goes.