My banlist

[CrabHelmet]

I hate banlist threads on YCM' date=' they're either that one list that everyone shat back off of the combined lists of Pharoh Atem, Crab Helmet, etc (basically what flame dragon's looking for).

 

OR

 

They're a list like this, different, but based on original ideas. Lists like this are fun to look at, thinking about what the meta would be like on it and whatnot. However, these lists get bombarded by users like Flame Dragon and Judgment Dragon saying WHY IS THIS NOT AT WHAT IT IS ON OUR LISTS?!?!?!? GIVE REASONS FOR THE FOLLOWING (as they proceed to list everything that's different from the tooly list that gets regurgitated every time).

 

Honestly, people, you turn every banlist thread into "Make Pharoh Atem's list or it's a bad list," which may be true, but people don't make their own lists so they can just be tweaked to Atem's.

[/quote']

 

You seem to be saying that this list is full of original ideas that is only looked down on because it doesn't follow Atem's list construction philosophy and doesn't just mindlessly repeat what Crab says. This is pretty much demonstrably nonsense; the list is clearly built on 3/0 philosophy, just with an unusually high level of self-admitted cluelessness (some of which is making me increasingly convinced that this actually is largely a mindless parrot rather than an unrelated list built on similar principles).

 

You also seem to be saying that people are complaining that it doesn't match Atem or Crab's list card-for-card, which would be ridiculous enough on its own even were it not for the fact that neither Atem nor myself has posted a list in the last twelve months, and the people who do make good 3/0 lists produce them with very different results from one another. You appear to have some sort of fundamental objection to people asking for explanations of list decisions, especially strange ones that contradict the philosophy used throughout the rest of the list (like most of the random Limits in a list that is clearly based on 3/0 thought) or highly damaging ones that pose a serious threat to the format in question (like Cyber Dragon); I can't see why anyone would have such an objection to asking for explanations, especially since discussion is pretty much the only thing that can be done in a list topic, but if you'd prefer just to say "GOOD LIST 10/10" in every list that gets made, you can be my guest.

 

You banned Cyber Twin Dragon without unbanning Metamorphosis' date=' which leads me to suspect that many of the moves on here are simply parrots. This suspicion is strengthened by some of the cards you left at 1 - you put Cyber Dragon at 3, but thought it was unsafe for The Transmigration Prophesy to be out there in multiples?

 

If there is indeed a second problem with Lightlords, then it's not Celestia or Lumina - it's Wulf.

[/quote']

I thought I took of Metamorphasis, guess not. Fixed now. I skimmed the Limited List slightly, and missed Transmigration Prophecy, a long with a lot of obvious cards. I put CyDra back at one though.

 

Forbidden Cards:

RESCUE CAT

I was unsure where to put this at first' date=' I kinda over-reacting to the US Nats, where game 3 was won on someones second turn for the last match. Im putting it at one for now, but even still I am unsure how long itll stay there.[/color']

 

Limited Cards:

BRAIN CONTROL

Where should it be?

D.D. WARRIOR LADY

I was tired and missed a lot of 1-for-1s that shouldnt be on here.

EMERGENCY TELEPORT

With CyDra at 3 this held a lot of speed at 3, and made Synchros more scary. However the numbers are now switched

FISSURE

I was tired and missed a lot of 1-for-1s that shouldnt be on here.

GORZ THE EMISSARY OF DARKNESS

I dont know how I missed this guy...

NEO-SPACIAN GRAND MOLE

Where should he be?

OJAMA TRIO

I cant seem to find this on yugioh wikia for some reason, and I dont remember the effect, so I left it as is.

PLAGUESPREADER ZOMBIE

I banned it now but where would you put it?

RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSION

Putting it at three kinda scares me cause then this meta might be dominated by Macro-Monarchs (we all know Monarchs will be top tier with this list, dont deny it), however putting it at 0 is to harsh for it.

SANGAN

I wanted to ban this but for some reason I feel its fine at 1

SMASHING GROUND

I was tired and missed a lot of 1-for-1s that shouldnt be on here.

SNIPE HUNTER

I missed him unfortunately

TREEBORN FROG

Im really unsure of where he belongs

UNITED WE STAND

An obvious miss on my part

WALL OF REVEALING LIGHT

I didnt know what it did and was to lazy to wikia it last night. Its at 3 now.

 

Semi-Limited Cards:

GREEN BABOON, DEFENDER OF THE FOREST

I said in the original post I didnt know where to put this cause Ive NEVER seen it played. Its at 3 now.

 

Reasons for all of these.

 

I updated the list a bit, to damage Lightsworns more and fix my mistakes from posting this at like 2am the same night I went to disney land and was so tired I could barely hold my eyes open.

 

updates:

 

Banned:

Gorz

Plaguespreader

 

Limited:

Celestia

CyDra

Rescue Kitty

Wulf

 

Unlimited:

Metamorphasis

DDWL

Fissure

Smashing Ground

E-Tele

Wall of Revealing Light

 

edit:

 

Also banned Des Croaking and Short Circuit, Im trying to make a meta with nicely lengthed games and as a result am trying to eliminate OTKs.

 

See, this is why I have trouble being convinced that you're really using 3/0 philosophy and not just repeating decisions that you've seen intelligent people promote in the past. You're clearly basing your list on the concept of "ban cards that hurt the game and unlimit cards that don't", yet you do things like Limiting Celestia just to take a shot at its deck and keeping broken cards legal because "putting it at 0 is to harsh for it" or "I wanted to ban this but for some reason I feel its fine at 1".

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Lol, someone got beat by lightsworn recently.

 

Also, lol@ Des Croaking and Short Circuit. Totally not worth banning. And if you ARE gonna be a tool and ban them, at least have the stones to go ahead and ban Ojama Delta Hurricane too.

[That Fat Guy]

I hate banlist threads on YCM' date=' they're either that one list that everyone shat back off of the combined lists of Pharoh Atem, Crab Helmet, etc (basically what flame dragon's looking for).

 

OR

 

They're a list like this, different, but based on original ideas. Lists like this are fun to look at, thinking about what the meta would be like on it and whatnot. However, these lists get bombarded by users like Flame Dragon and Judgment Dragon saying WHY IS THIS NOT AT WHAT IT IS ON OUR LISTS?!?!?!? GIVE REASONS FOR THE FOLLOWING (as they proceed to list everything that's different from the tooly list that gets regurgitated every time).

 

Honestly, people, you turn every banlist thread into "Make Pharoh Atem's list or it's a bad list," which may be true, but people don't make their own lists so they can just be tweaked to Atem's.

[/quote']

 

You seem to be saying that this list is full of original ideas that is only looked down on because it doesn't follow Atem's list construction philosophy and doesn't just mindlessly repeat what Crab says. This is pretty much demonstrably nonsense; the list is clearly built on 3/0 philosophy, just with an unusually high level of self-admitted cluelessness (some of which is making me increasingly convinced that this actually is largely a mindless parrot rather than an unrelated list built on similar principles).

 

You also seem to be saying that people are complaining that it doesn't match Atem or Crab's list card-for-card, which would be ridiculous enough on its own even were it not for the fact that neither Atem nor myself has posted a list in the last twelve months, and the people who do make good 3/0 lists produce them with very different results from one another. You appear to have some sort of fundamental objection to people asking for explanations of list decisions, especially strange ones that contradict the philosophy used throughout the rest of the list (like most of the random Limits in a list that is clearly based on 3/0 thought) or highly damaging ones that pose a serious threat to the format in question (like Cyber Dragon); I can't see why anyone would have such an objection to asking for explanations, especially since discussion is pretty much the only thing that can be done in a list topic, but if you'd prefer just to say "GOOD LIST 10/10" in every list that gets made, you can be my guest.

 

I don't have an objection to people asking for explanations for the decisions that the OP has made. I just dislike the fact that everytime a list comes up and, say, Fissure isn't at 3 (which, sure, it should be), everyone jumps on it asking for an explanation. They don't care about an explanation. Every explanation they hear would just get some kind of "lolwrong" in response to it; they're more or less just saying "Put Fissure at 3." This goes on for 4 or 5 pages until finally we're left with a list that is essentially that one list. As you can already see, TME has started doing the changes using the YCM excuse of "I was tired. I dunno how I missed that."

 

I suppose original wasn't the right word to use for the list. It's just different. Yeah I see a lot of the parroting you're talking about in the list, if nowhere else in the changes he's made since posting it. As far as you or Atem not posting a list in the past year or so, you still have people who know the list up and down, or at least agree wholly with the philosophies of it (hell, they are good), and do try to mold every list that comes onto this site into it.

 

I'm not expert on banlist theory, this is just something I feel in every banlist thread. Though I must admit, I'm surprised nobody called for Airbellum hit over cat yet.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

If he honestly has a reason for think that Fissure should be limited, he should just be able to explain it then. Taking responsibilities for your own ideas isn't exactly a new concept ya' know...

[CrabHelmet]

I hate banlist threads on YCM' date=' they're either that one list that everyone shat back off of the combined lists of Pharoh Atem, Crab Helmet, etc (basically what flame dragon's looking for).

 

OR

 

They're a list like this, different, but based on original ideas. Lists like this are fun to look at, thinking about what the meta would be like on it and whatnot. However, these lists get bombarded by users like Flame Dragon and Judgment Dragon saying WHY IS THIS NOT AT WHAT IT IS ON OUR LISTS?!?!?!? GIVE REASONS FOR THE FOLLOWING (as they proceed to list everything that's different from the tooly list that gets regurgitated every time).

 

Honestly, people, you turn every banlist thread into "Make Pharoh Atem's list or it's a bad list," which may be true, but people don't make their own lists so they can just be tweaked to Atem's.

[/quote']

 

You seem to be saying that this list is full of original ideas that is only looked down on because it doesn't follow Atem's list construction philosophy and doesn't just mindlessly repeat what Crab says. This is pretty much demonstrably nonsense; the list is clearly built on 3/0 philosophy, just with an unusually high level of self-admitted cluelessness (some of which is making me increasingly convinced that this actually is largely a mindless parrot rather than an unrelated list built on similar principles).

 

You also seem to be saying that people are complaining that it doesn't match Atem or Crab's list card-for-card, which would be ridiculous enough on its own even were it not for the fact that neither Atem nor myself has posted a list in the last twelve months, and the people who do make good 3/0 lists produce them with very different results from one another. You appear to have some sort of fundamental objection to people asking for explanations of list decisions, especially strange ones that contradict the philosophy used throughout the rest of the list (like most of the random Limits in a list that is clearly based on 3/0 thought) or highly damaging ones that pose a serious threat to the format in question (like Cyber Dragon); I can't see why anyone would have such an objection to asking for explanations, especially since discussion is pretty much the only thing that can be done in a list topic, but if you'd prefer just to say "GOOD LIST 10/10" in every list that gets made, you can be my guest.

 

I don't have an objection to people asking for explanations for the decisions that the OP has made. I just dislike the fact that everytime a list comes up and, say, Fissure isn't at 3 (which, sure, it should be), everyone jumps on it asking for an explanation. They don't care about an explanation. Every explanation they hear would just get some kind of "lolwrong" in response to it; they're more or less just saying "Put Fissure at 3." This goes on for 4 or 5 pages until finally we're left with a list that is essentially that one list.

 

But there is no "that one list", since, as I said, nobody has made a respectable That One List. People raise eyebrows when they see Fissure and Smashing Ground at 1 not because they are at 3 on That One List but rather because it has been firmly established in the past through repeated discussions of those cards that there is really no reason not to put them at 3 - a distinction which, you will appreciate, makes the issue not "this decision doesn't conform to That One List", an objection which is perfectly ludicrous, but rather "this decision makes no bloody sense", an objection which is highly relevant to the topic of discussion. Of course, if he does have a reason, he is free to explain it - that's why Flame Dragon asked for explanations, not changes.

 

As you can already see' date=' TME has started doing the changes using the YCM excuse of "I was tired. I dunno how I missed that."

[/quote']

 

That's because TME is bad at this. He built his list not by directly applying 3/0 philosophy himself but rather by copying decisions made by those who adhere to 3/0 philosophy without understanding the reasoning behind them. This can be shown by observing how easily he is swayed by anything said by anyone and by looking at how weak his thought process is where he does try to assert himself, such as in the case of RFTDD.

 

I suppose original wasn't the right word to use for the list. It's just different.

 

It's not even really different. Most of it is generic 3/0 stuff' date=' with the main differences being the extra cards left at 1 - and if you look at his responses to Flame Dragon's post, you'll see that he didn't have real reasons for most of those either.

 

Yeah I see a lot of the parroting you're talking about in the list, if nowhere else in the changes he's made since posting it.

 

The changes are mainly parroting what other people have suggested in this topic (or at least the suggestions that he believes are being made). The only updates that he made that weren't based on what people said earlier in the topic were the new bans on Des Croaking and Short Circuit.

 

As far as you or Atem not posting a list in the past year or so' date=' you still have people who know the list up and down, or at least agree wholly with the philosophies of it (hell, they are good), and do try to mold every list that comes onto this site into it.

[/quote']

 

Nothing wrong with applying a bit of common philosophy; in fact, a philosophy of some sort is necessary to determine anything at all. However, since this list is obviously dominated by 3/0 already - the original list had about 20 bans (including All-Out Attacks) and about 30 unlimits, but no new Limits or Semi-Limits - any objection that is raised is not an attempt to hijack a non-3/0 banlist and turn it into a 3/0 banlist but rather an attempt to improve a banlist that is already 3/0 by pointing out where it deviates from its own fundamental principles.

 

I'm not expert on banlist theory' date=' this is just something I feel in every banlist thread. Though I must admit, I'm surprised nobody called for Airbellum hit over cat yet.

[/quote']

 

I think that's what Flame Dragon was doing in asking why Rescue Cat was banned.

[Tickle Me Emo]

@Crab:

I will admit I am bad at this and a lot of this I guess you could say is parroting cause a lot of what I know, expecially about where cards should be on the banlist is from seeing the better players, like you, say where they should be. However I do know the stuff now due to the resons/explinations given for why the cards should be where they should be.

 

@Pika:

I forgot about Ojama Delta Hurricane. No I wasnt beaten by LS recently but I tried my LS deck in WC09 with 0 JD and 0 Plague and Celestia was still a game winner for me, and I only play 1 Wulf anyway cause Im to lazy to look up his password.

 

@TFG:

I really was tired, I was with my girlfriend at Disney Land for 14 hours... I was tired. I know that 1-for-1s shouldnt be banned, and that cards like, say, United We Stand shouldnt be at 1.

[Flame Dragon]

Forbidden Cards:

RESCUE CAT

I was unsure where to put this at first' date=' I kinda over-reacting to the US Nats, where game 3 was won on someones second turn for the last match. Im putting it at one for now, but even still I am unsure how long itll stay there.[/color']

This is a problem. So look at the cards used in the combo and see which are the cause. This should take you to two cards. From their ask, which card gives more to the game.

 

Limited Cards:

BRAIN CONTROL

Where should it be?

Where do you think? This one isn't hard.

 

NEO-SPACIAN GRAND MOLE

Where should he be?

What have you done to the other 1 for 1s. This is the same.

 

OJAMA TRIO

I cant seem to find this on yugioh wikia for some reason' date=' and I dont remember the effect, so I left it as is.[/color']

 

PLAGUESPREADER ZOMBIE

I banned it now but where would you put it?

Why should I give you the answer? What makes Plague's effect unacceptable at 3?

 

RETURN FROM THE DIFFERENT DIMENSION

Putting it at three kinda scares me cause then this meta might be dominated by Macro-Monarchs (we all know Monarchs will be top tier with this list' date=' dont deny it), however putting it at 0 is to harsh for it.[/color']

It's a card. How can you be harsh to it?

 

SANGAN

I wanted to ban this but for some reason I feel its fine at 1

Ok then. Why 1 and not 3?

 

TREEBORN FROG

Im really unsure of where he belongs

Think about what his effect is' date=' and what it allows.

 

Semi-Limited Cards:

GREEN BABOON' date=' DEFENDER OF THE FOREST

I said in the original post I didnt know where to put this cause Ive NEVER seen it played. Its at 3 now.

I haven't either, but I know where it should be. What can it's effect allow it to do?

 

 

Celestia

CyDra

Wulf

Why 3 and not 0? What benifit tdo they give the game here? Also why 1 in the first place? What made them unacceptable at 3? Don't say for Celestia and Wolf "They made Lightsworns good" or things to that effect.

 

Also banned Des Croaking and Short Circuit' date=' Im trying to make a meta with nicely lengthed games and as a result am trying to eliminate OTKs.

[/quote']

You know it is impossible to eliminate EVERY OTK. That is why you only do so to those that are problematic and easy to do. So what makes these so problematic?

 

Also while your at it, where should this go?

Ocean Dragon Lord - Neo-Daedalus

[The Dark Megacyber]

Play with those bans will be funny, but you unlimited some cards that must be in the list.

[Tickle Me Emo]

Play with those bans will be funny' date=' but you unlimited some cards that must be in the list.

[/quote']

 

Like..?

 

And Flame Ill answer you later, to lazy to answer everything you said.

[CrabHelmet]

@Crab:

I will admit I am bad at this and a lot of this I guess you could say is parroting cause a lot of what I know' date=' expecially about where cards should be on the banlist is from seeing the better players, like you, say where they should be. However I do know the stuff now due to the resons/explinations given for why the cards should be where they should be.

[/quote']

 

The direction of your attempts to apply the philosophy underlying these reasons strongly implies a lack of understanding of said reasons.

 

@Pika:

I forgot about Ojama Delta Hurricane. No I wasnt beaten by LS recently but I tried my LS deck in WC09 with 0 JD and 0 Plague and Celestia was still a game winner for me' date=' and I only play 1 Wulf anyway cause Im to lazy to look up his password.

[/quote']

 

The source of your banlist decisions is... tests made with incomplete decks in WCT2009? Seriously?

 

@TFG:

I really was tired' date=' I was with my girlfriend at Disney Land for 14 hours... I was tired. I know that 1-for-1s shouldnt be banned, and that cards like, say, United We Stand shouldnt be at 1.

[/quote']

 

1-for-1 removal shouldn't be banned? Better go and legalize The Forceful Sentry, Confiscation, and Ring of Destruction.

[Tickle Me Emo]

Crab you are making me realize more and more I dont know enough about banlists to make a good list. you may lock if you wish.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

inb4 the lock

[RyanAtlus]

Crush should stay at 1.

Why Exodia?

[Zeaux]

Good you banned Plaguespreader. Now how I will summon Zombie-Synchros :?

[Flame Dragon]

Crab you are making me realize more and more I dont know enough about banlists to make a good list. you may lock if you wish.

If you want to get better at this leave it open and continue to work at it. Just giving up won't get you anywhere.

 

Crush should stay at 1.

It has a ridiculously easy activation requirement, gives you full knowledge of your opponent's hand, and puts your opponent at a huge disadvantage. Anywhere other then 0 is simply wrong.

[Tickle Me Emo]

inb4 the lock

Aint that considered spam?

 

Crab you are making me realize more and more I dont know enough about banlists to make a good list. you may lock if you wish.

If you want to get better at this leave it open and continue to work at it. Just giving up won't get you anywhere.

 

okay.