Confiscation discussion

[Psycho Shocker Android]

 

Where should this be on the list?

[HORUS]

Forbidden.

 

/thread

[Psycho Shocker Android]

' pid='2489507' dateline='1246690724']

Forbidden.

 

/thread

 

Why?

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Easily forbidden.

[Flame Dragon]

' pid='2489507' dateline='1246690724']

Forbidden.

 

/thread

 

Why?

Guess. It really isn't hard at all to figure out

[HORUS]

' pid='2489507' dateline='1246690724']

Forbidden.

 

/thread

 

Why?

 

Did you read the card?

[CrabHelmet]

' pid='2489507' dateline='1246690724']

Forbidden.

 

/thread

 

Why?

 

While burden of proof does indeed rest upon those who want it at the lower list position, the arguments in favour of banning it are so obvious and well-known that it is unreasonable for you to request that they be repeated before you offer whatever counterargument you have.

 

Unless, of course, you have no counterargument, in which case shut up.

[Master Hyperion]

This card requires no brain skills to be used.

 

Let it rot in the forbidden section.

[Skarlet]

Personally, I would like to point out for 1000 LP, forcing your opponent to discard a card, and seeing thier hand really isn't that great, I mean honestly, say your opponent is using Lightsworn and you hit JD, they can get it back easily with Monster Reincarnation or Beckoning Light. Then, for example say it's Glads, well, that's a little better, but it's still not that major, Blackwings - oh look, monster comes back due to Reborn, Shura, ect. about the best targets for this are really things like Honest, and Monster Reborn. at best it'd really only be sideable IMO.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Magic has thoughtseize and duress both of which are very similar to this and they aren't very harmfull to the game.

 

I know confiscation requires minimal skills (you take the biggest threat), but it's not a reason for it to be banned just look at cards like soul taker.

 

Hand control is dead in YGO except for stupidly broken cards like CCV and insane combos like rescue cat into airbellums. I used to like playing drop offs with reaper and everything back in the days. (we also had yata but it's obvious that a 1 card lock is banworthy)

 

I know we have trap dustshoot and mind crush but they both aren't flexible enough to be solid main deck choice. Trap dustshoot is almost useless if drawn late game and it's playability is reduced if you go 2nd. Mind crush requires you to have some information from your opponent or by playing other cards that lets you see your opponent's hand. It's good when you play it to counter stuff like honest, gold sarcophagus, kalut and beckoning light but you can't rely on it to disrupt your opponent's hand on it's own.

 

If you open with 3 thoughtseize in magic you'll take their 1 drop on turn 1, and 2 good cards on turn two plus you'll be left with 14 life. Now in YGO if you open with 3 confiscation you'll have 3 cards left in your hand just like your opponent and be down by 3000 LP. Your situation will probably be better than your opponent if he's also playing a control deck but if your are playing vs anything aggressive or even worse a burn deck it's not what you want to open with. (this is for both YGO and MTG, plus in MTG you can mulligan to get something more playable for the matchup)

[Static]

I would personally love to see this card at one, but in all fairness, it should be at 0.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

0. Its cost is laughable and it contributes nothing to the game.

[Static]

0. Its cost is laughable and it contributes nothing to the game.

 

1. Word on 8888th post.

 

2. It always gets the "Oh f-ck you that's just not fair" reaction, which is always worth it.

[Xazeon]

It should be at 0.

[Toffee.]

0. Its cost is laughable and it contributes nothing to the game.

 

[insert the Trap Dustshoop + Mid Crush combo here]

 

Aside from that' date=' 1000 is nothing. Compared the fact that you get to [i']look at[/i] your Opponent's hand, and discard 1 card among them.

[CrabHelmet]

Magic has thoughtseize and duress both of which are very similar to this and they aren't very harmfull to the game.

 

Considering how different a game Magic is' date=' I really don't care what is and isn't harmful in Magic. Therefore, this paragraph is irrelevant.

 

I know confiscation requires minimal skills (you take the biggest threat), but it's not a reason for it to be banned just look at cards like soul taker.

 

It's also not a reason for it to be not banned. Therefore, this paragraph is irrelevant.

 

Hand control is dead in YGO except for stupidly broken cards like CCV and insane combos like rescue cat into airbellums. I used to like playing drop offs with reaper and everything back in the days. (we also had yata but it's obvious that a 1 card lock is banworthy)

 

You're thinking in terms of the current meta.

 

However' date=' hand control doesn't need to be around in force for this card to be used, in the same way that a deck can run CCV even if it isn't a hand control deck. Therefore, this paragraph is irrelevant.

 

I know we have trap dustshoot and mind crush but they both aren't flexible enough to be solid main deck choice. Trap dustshoot is almost useless if drawn late game and it's playability is reduced if you go 2nd. Mind crush requires you to have some information from your opponent or by playing other cards that lets you see your opponent's hand. It's good when you play it to counter stuff like honest, gold sarcophagus, kalut and beckoning light but you can't rely on it to disrupt your opponent's hand on it's own.

 

Trap Dustshoot is at the very least borderline itself, and quite probably banworthy too.

 

Also, this really has nothing to do with Confiscation. We will not bring Confiscation back just because there aren't enough generic hand control cards around, in the same way that we won't bring back Makyura to make non-chainables stronger and we won't bring back Ring of Destruction for the purpose of supporting burn. Therefore, this paragraph is irrelevant.

 

If you open with 3 thoughtseize in magic you'll take their 1 drop on turn 1' date=' and 2 good cards on turn two plus you'll be left with 14 life. Now in YGO if you open with 3 confiscation you'll have 3 cards left in your hand just like your opponent and be down by 3000 LP. Your situation will probably be better than your opponent if he's also playing a control deck but if your are playing vs anything aggressive or even worse a burn deck it's not what you want to open with. (this is for both YGO and MTG, plus in MTG you can mulligan to get something more playable for the matchup)

[/quote']

 

Kukukukuku. I love how you think the only scenario that matters is triple Confiscation. And I love how you then assume that you'll be screwed if they're playing just about anything half-decent, even though you yourself just chose which half of their hand to eliminate and thus should have been able to neutralize just about anything effective they were planning on doing.

 

Here's a scenario for you: you open with 1 Confiscation. Insane advantage to you.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Crab has no counter argument and think that by just saying everything is irrelevant it will look good on YCM because he's popular there.

 

Here's my answer to the only good point you've brought up.

 

Here's a scenario for you: you open with 1 Confiscation. Insane advantage to you.

 

Well no, you need to have the cards to deal with what you saw if not, you know you've lost. Like I said it's a card good for control. You know 4 of his 5 cards and if you both have a strong hand you should be on top. But it doesn't mean you won, your opponent can also play differently setting a spell instead of the bottomless trap hole you saw to lure a S/T removal, etc.

 

And it's sort of like trap dustshoot, you want to get it on your first turn where you get the full potential of the card but, the longer it takes before you draw it reduces it's impact. It's certainly not a card you want when you're topdecking. Just like any card there is a reward and a risk for playing it.

 

The cost might be small but it also has to be playable, nobody would play this if it said pay half your LP. Saying it doesn't contribute to the game though is stupid. Why should every card in your hand be safe?

[HORUS]

Psycho Shocker Android, I have read all posts you have made in this thread and concluded without any ghost of doubt that you are quite certainly an idiot.

[Azuh]

-Insert blah blah blah bullshit that people have said already-. Zero

[Sleepy]

Its 2:00 AM here and I don't feel sleepy (not that much anyways) so I think I'll try to answer some of these points....

 

Crab has no counter argument and think that by just saying everything is irrelevant it will look good on YCM because he's popular there.

I... actually don't have anything to say about this...lol

 

Here's my answer to the only good point you've brought up.

 

Here's a scenario for you: you open with 1 Confiscation. Insane advantage to you.

 

Well no' date=' you need to have the cards to deal with what you saw if not, you know you've lost.

Not that hard, the game is fast enough and there are about enough card destruction effects and countering cards out there to deal with it. you get to first look at your opponent's ENTIRE hand, make up a strategy based on that. If you think you are doomed with your current hand, you either got a bad hand or should change your Deck, or quit playing, whatever is better for you ;) .

 

Like I said it's a card good for control. You know 4 of his 5 cards and if you both have a strong hand you should be on top.

NO, you know all 4 of his 4 cards, and get rid of the 5th. Also, there's always the case where your opponent is the only one with a bad hand ;)

 

But it doesn't mean you won,

Of course not. A single card is only supposed to give you an advantage, not win you the game on its own...

 

your opponent can also play differently setting a spell instead of the bottomless trap hole you saw to lure a S/T removal, etc.

Your opponent can only get so far with that, its not always going to happen. And in either case, you will always be at an advantage if you know your opponent's hand and he doesn't know yours. And I must emphasis:

1) you got rid of his biggest threat.

2) you are worried about mind games? both players can do that...

 

 

And it's sort of like trap dustshoot, you want to get it on your first turn where you get the full potential of the card but, the longer it takes before you draw it reduces it's impact. It's certainly not a card you want when you're topdecking. Just like any card there is a reward and a risk for playing it.

Top Decking this card is in fact possible, but it shouldn't happen very often. And by this logic, topDecking Chaos Emperor Dragon when you have no DARK & LIGHT monsters in your Graveyard is a big cost that says it should be at 1.

 

The cost might be small but it also has to be playable, nobody would play this if it said pay half your LP.

I must confess that I didn't use this card when it was legal. Then I got better at the game just in time to see it banned. I must tell you that this card would be a high abuse in my Deck. I wouldn't mind paying 1/2 of my Life in there. I don't care. I use its regular given advantages (look hand and discard) + the tons of Spell Counters I gain from it, and I can recycle it for free. If my lol Spell Counter Deck can, I'm sure other Decks will too...

 

Saying it doesn't contribute to the game though is stupid. Why should every card in your hand be safe?

you have a point there. Why would the hand be safe if the field isn't?

for monsters you have Lightning Vortex, Smashing Ground, Soul Taker, and others. And cards that are bannable and banned like Raigeki..

 

for Spell & Traps you have MST, Heavy Storm, Breaker, and others. And for banned we have Harpie's Feather Duster.

 

for hand we DO have cards like Morphing Jar, Thestalos the Fire Monarch, Spirit Reaper, Trap Dustshoot.

And for banned, we have Delinquent Duo, Forceful Centry, and this card. Its not like we don't have cards that can damage the hand.

This card is unfair...

 

I don't really remember what else I was going to say so... I'll stop in here....and nothing above is meant to be harsh btw^

 

 

more or less that^

[evilhorus]

Oh, Crab, I took quite a lot of sips ;)

 

This is supposed to be in 0, it shall stay in 0.

[CrabHelmet]

Crab has no counter argument and think that by just saying everything is irrelevant it will look good on YCM because he's popular there.

 

Here's the vibe I'm getting here:

 

PSA: Confiscation should be unbanned because I enjoy egg salad.

Crab: That has nothing to do with anything.

PSA: You just can't think of a good counterargument! I win the debate! Go me!

 

Here's my answer to the only good point you've brought up.

 

PSA has no counter argument and think that by just saying everything is not good it will look good on YCM because he's popular there.

 

Am I doing it right?

 

Here's a scenario for you: you open with 1 Confiscation. Insane advantage to you.

 

Well no' date=' you need to have the cards to deal with what you saw if not, you know you've lost. Like I said it's a card good for control. You know 4 of his 5 cards and if you both have a strong hand you should be on top. But it doesn't mean you won, your opponent can also play differently setting a spell instead of the bottomless trap hole you saw to lure a S/T removal, etc.

[/quote']

 

Combining the information with a precision strike against whichever card the opponent has that would be least convenient for you should be more than sufficient.

 

In general, I'm getting the feeling that you view the information gained as the main problem, and the discard as just a minor bonus. That, my friend, is ludicrous.

 

And it's sort of like trap dustshoot' date=' you want to get it on your first turn where you get the full potential of the card but, the longer it takes before you draw it reduces it's impact. It's certainly not a card you want when you're topdecking. Just like any card there is a reward and a risk for playing it.

[/quote']

 

Confiscation can still be decent midgame and possibly lategame - especially since, with resources dwindling, removing the opponent's best option can be crucial when both players are low on options.

 

Also, "being a not terribly good topdeck" most certainly does not imply balance. Delinquent Duo won't save you from a Gene-Warped Warwolf that your opponent has already Summoned and Sixth Sense only has a one-in-three chance of being anything other than an absolute joke, but I still wouldn't want those to come back.

 

The cost might be small but it also has to be playable' date=' nobody would play this if it said pay half your LP.

[/quote']

 

The cost exists, but it is tiny and certainly doesn't balance the bloody thing.

 

Saying it doesn't contribute to the game though is stupid.

 

Last time it was legal' date=' Goldd became hot tech and whoever drew Confiscation first won the duel, so I suppose you could call that a "contribution". >_> In any case, whatever Confiscation contributes is insufficient to justify keeping it around.

 

Why should every card in your hand be safe?

 

Are you seriously asking this?

 

First of all, cards in the hand are not safe. Balanced hand removal exists.

 

Second of all, though there is less balanced hand removal than there is field removal, this is hardly unreasonable; cards on the field have been committed while cards in the hand have been kept in reserve, so it should be unsurprising that the former are more vulnerable.

 

Third of all, here's what I said in my last post: "We will not bring Confiscation back just because there aren't enough generic hand control cards around, in the same way that we won't bring back Makyura to make non-chainables stronger and we won't bring back Ring of Destruction for the purpose of supporting burn." It was one of those sections of my post that you ignored because it wasn't a "good point", even though it directly addresses your final argument here. Apparently, PSA has no counter argument and think that by just ignoring everything it will look good on YCM because he's popular there.

[HORUS]

I can't believe this guy is arguing that having less cards in your starting hand is not bad.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I've always written Confiscation off as banworthy, but I've never really looked into it or thought about it all that much. That being said, I still have mixed feelings after looking this card and the arguments given over a little bit.

 

I can't believe this guy is arguing that having less cards in your starting hand is not bad.

 

Well' date=' it IS a 1-for-1, you lose a card, so do they. If we're taking ONLY Confiscation into account, nobody has less cards in their hand. Then there's a little something something tacked on. You see their hand too and lose 1000 LP.

 

0. Its cost is laughable and it contributes nothing to the game.

 

Define "contribution to the game". Judgment Dragon has no counter argument and think that by just saying everything doesn't contribute to the game it will look good on YCM because he's popular there. Seriously, why is it that Smashing Ground, which is a completely COSTLESS one-for-one which wouldn't contribute any more to the game than this, not be graced with the quoted post too?

 

This card requires no brain skills to be used.

 

Let it rot in the forbidden section.

 

Calculating the card which would be most harmful to you based on the current information you have based on your hand' date=' their hand, their face-up cards, your cards, and both Graveyards/RFPs, takes a certain amount of skill.

 

In general, I'm getting the feeling that you view the information gained as the main problem, and the discard as just a minor bonus. That, my friend, is ludicrous.

 

The information gained isn't exactly negligible. If this card's effect were "Discard 1 random card from your opponent's hand", would it still be banworthy? Absolutely not, as that'd have absolutely NOTHING over Smashing Ground. Smashing Ground would in fact be better, as it'd be much less of a stab in the dark. You could judge based on comparison of what you have and what they have, not to mention Smashing Ground forces your opponent to take any Summoning condition that monster might've had to the grave with it. Most often a Normal Summon, but still.

 

The information gained is the reason having this banned is even arguable.

 

Let's compare the real thing to Smashing Ground and Trap Dustshoot just for the sake of the argument.

 

Confiscation vs. Smashing Ground

 

What Smashing Ground has over Confiscation.

 

-No cost.

-Costs your opponent the speed and/or advantage of whatever it took to Summon their monster.

-Can still function against aggressive tactics like swarming the place up, which would respectively diminish the swarmer's hand.

 

What Confiscation has over Smashing Ground.

 

-Forces information, even if your opponent hasn't chosen to reveal it yet. They probably will in time, but it's often too late by the time that happens.

-Can still function if your opponent's playing conservatively and not throwing down any face-up monsters, but this works both ways.

-Can function on the first turn of the Duel, in fact even better than it would normally.

 

Confiscation really doesn't blow out Smashing Ground here, and considering all people I've heard who are towards unlimiting Smashing Ground, I'd have to say that PSA's got something to discuss here.

 

Confiscation vs. Trap Dsutshoot

 

What Trap Dustshoot has over Confiscation

 

-No cost.

-Has the advantage of being activated in the opponent's Draw Phase, which, if we're to assume you've just Set this in the first turn, would be 6 cards to look at as opposed to the 5 you'd get from a first turn Confiscation. Just a bit more to choose from.

-Has the advantage of being set and lets you monitor the situation a little more and be more strategic in choosing the time you activate it. For example, if your opponent's hand grows, you can fire this off before they can make use of those extra cards. Confiscation's not being usable in your opponent's turn doesn't let you monitor based on what they're doing as much.

-Cards are sent back to the Deck as opposed to being sent to the Graveyard, and more can be done with cards in the Graveyard than cards in the Deck more often than not.

 

Confiscation:

 

-Has no activation requirement, although considering these would be best when your opponent has 4 cards in hand, it's not too high to ask of a requirement.

-Can target all types of cards, not just monsters.

-Is faster in that it's a Spell Card and you can activated it right away, then continue your turn based on the information gained.

 

Still relatively even. Confiscation really isn't that much more imbalanced than Trap Dustshoot OR Smashing Ground. =/

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Blah blah blah Smashing Ground

 

There's a key difference between monsters on the field being vulnerable and everything in your hand being vulnerable.