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the official arcana force disscusion(join us on discussing the epicness and the arcana forces connections to tarots)


rate the arcanas  

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  1. 1. rate the arcanas



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i am now setting this up to discuss something that has been regularly forgotten(think i spelt that right.) feel free to talk about arcana force.(arcana force is used by sartorious in yu-gi-oh!gx and i was waiting ever since for their release. i was so happy it did)

 

ill start

 

arcana force rocks hard! i just wanna get them all to build an sartorious deck.

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Even though an Arcana Force deck looks like it depends on luck more than anything else, after much playtesting, it seems to rely on luck only as much as an ordinary deck. A skilled arcana Force player can turn any situation into a situation that is advantageous for them, even if the coin flip results in a Tails. Arcana Force will always be one of my favorite archetype and they are an excellent archetype.

 

If you want to build an Arcana Force deck, go ahead. Even though the most powerful cards are very rare, the rest are just commons and rares in Light of Destruction. You can still create a decent Arcana Force deck without Honest, The World, or either of the EX cards.

 

Your poll is a bit off. There are 22 Major arcana cards and, in the arcana force archetype, 2 EX cards. However, most of the 22 Major arcana do not exist. Here are the cards that do exist: 0 - The Fool, I - The Magician, III - The Empress, IV - The Emperor, VI - The Lovers, VII - The Chariot, XIV - Temperance, XVIII - The Moon, and XXI - The World, and then the two EX cards, The dark ruler and the Light Ruler.

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As an archetype: they suck.

 

As individual cards: The Fool is a half-decent wall if you're already running Marshmallon and Spirit Reaper, and The World and The Dark Ruler can lock and OTK respectively, albeit badly. Beyond that, they suck.

 

Overall: Konami, morons, blah blah blah.

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bad.

exceptions:

fool

dark ruler

world

 

the arcana force are awful.

they are awful for one primary reason:

they hate each other.

consider lightsworns: lumina reborns them, wulf gets specialed by any of them on chance, aurkus protects them, albiet jankily, and celestia gets her effect when you tribute one for her. her effect is beastly. so overall, lightsworns love each other. the cards support each other.

 

now look at arcana force: we have the double tributer whos outclassed by gellenduo, 2 or 3 attack boosters that are so minor and so low base attack that it doesnt even matter, the token guy whos pointless, a few situational special summons, etc. their effects dont flow seamlessly together. in fact, they dont flow at all. the reason the above listed exceptions dont suck is that they, standing alone, are alright. the fool is good defense, the world has a lockdown, and the dark ruler is possible otk machine.

 

the arcana force are terribad.

even if you got to choose the effects at all times, they would still be bad, because they all have terrible heads effects.

furthermore, each one is pretty much outclassed by other cards.

 

and

@ whoever said it

you're wrong. you do need honest to make an arcana force deck. the reason? the cards suck. you need something good to balance it out.

 

 

im not saying this out of angst or hate, i've tried to run the cards.

theyre just bad.

 

this is the closet i got to a feasible deck build:

 

 

1 dark ruler

2 venus

2 tethys

3 magician

3 emperor

3 honest

1 hecatrice

2 fool

1 sangan

2 shining

19

 

3 light barrier

3 valhalla

1 terraforming

1 reborn

1 heavy

3 cup of ace

12

 

2 lucky

2 call

2 reversal

3 paths

9

 

 

deck 40

 

 

 

it mostly relies on paths, beatdown, and the occasional otk with darkruler-call.

tethys as a draw engine is awesome, and venus lightbarriernegation is awesome too.

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Guest PikaPerson01

All of them are outclassed a lot by a lot of other cards. However, making a Gadget-esque deck with them (Along with 3 By Order of the Emperor) is rather fun.

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bad.

exceptions:

fool

dark ruler

world

 

I agree that those 3 stand out as great' date=' but the others are still good.

 

the arcana force are awful.

they are awful for one primary reason:

they hate each other.

consider lightsworns: lumina reborns them, wulf gets specialed by any of them on chance, aurkus protects them, albiet jankily, and celestia gets her effect when you tribute one for her. her effect is beastly. so overall, lightsworns love each other. the cards support each other.

 

now look at arcana force: we have the double tributer whos outclassed by gellenduo, 2 or 3 attack boosters that are so minor and so low base attack that it doesnt even matter, the token guy whos pointless, a few situational special summons, etc. their effects dont flow seamlessly together. in fact, they dont flow at all. the reason the above listed exceptions dont suck is that they, standing alone, are alright. the fool is good defense, the world has a lockdown, and the dark ruler is possible otk machine.

 

I find that the variety of effects actually helps in an Arcana Force deck. It means that I can possibly draw the card that can turn the duel around. The cool thing is I usually do. As for the few good cards in the archetype, they really help the archetype in the deck, but the only one that's necessary is The Fool for extra damage protection.

 

the arcana force are terribad.

even if you got to choose the effects at all times' date=' they would still be bad, because they all have terrible heads effects.

furthermore, each one is pretty much outclassed by other cards.[/quote']

 

What's the Empress outclassed by? And usually, Light Barrier not only let you choose the effect, but you can also gain a lot of life by Barrier's effect too. Thanks to Reversal of Fate and Light Barrier, you pretty much can choose what effect you want.

 

and

@ whoever said it

you're wrong. you do need honest to make an arcana force deck. the reason? the cards suck. you need something good to balance it out.

 

Are you trying to say that a few good cards can balance out an entire deck of trash? I'm not saying the Arcana Force are trash' date=' I'm just saying that a deck is like a team: a few star players don't make an entire team good. Everybody must participate to achieve victory. I don't object to the use of Honest though. It seems Honest is needed in every LIGHT deck now.

 

im not saying this out of angst or hate, i've tried to run the cards.

theyre just bad.

 

Weird. I used them and got the same result.

 

this is the closet i got to a feasible deck build:

 

1 dark ruler

2 venus

2 tethys

3 magician

3 emperor

3 honest

1 hecatrice

2 fool

1 sangan

2 shining

19

 

3 light barrier

3 valhalla

1 terraforming

1 reborn

1 heavy

3 cup of ace

12

 

2 lucky

2 call

2 reversal

3 paths

9

 

deck 40

 

it mostly relies on paths' date=' beatdown, and the occasional otk with darkruler-call.

tethys as a draw engine is awesome, and venus light barrier negation is awesome too.

[/quote']

 

I see where each of these cards are useful. Sadly I do not have many of them. As for your problems, I'm going to have to point out the bolded:

 

Magician: doesn't work so well. You should only use 1.

 

The Fool: You need 3. It has many combos in an Arcana Force deck.

 

Shining: I would assume that's Shining Angel. It's not really needed to find Emperor or Magician. Plus you have it at 2. Shining Angel works best at 3.

 

Here's what you're missing:

 

Empress: It's a key ingredient in the deck. It becomes very hazardous with Light Barrier.

 

The Chariot: Both of its effects are helpful at different times.

 

Temperance: It's like a monarch and Kuriboh in one, except its effect doesn't destroy anything. The Tails effect usually isn't so devastating to you compared to its 2400 ATK.

 

Moon: He really isn't necessary, but 2 of him are useful for a World lock. The Moon is also one of the 5 AF monsters where the Tails effect is sometimes more useful than the Heads effect.

 

Book of Moon/Eclipse: It helps with changing AF's effects, stopping attacks, etc.

 

Mirror Force, Threatening Roar, and/or Torrential Tribute: They all have different reasons to be run.

 

The other cards I can respect your choice of. I like that Venus combo. Too bad I don't have Venus, otherwise I would run it. Perhaps you should give Arcana Force another chance. They work good enough for me.

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your grievances, addressed in order:

 

variety would be nice, if it were a toolbox. its not.

warriors are a toolbox. gbs are a toolbox. even ls provide a better toolbox. theres no arcana that special summons from the grave, no arcana that protects others, no arcana that blows sheet up, etc etc. 2 of them special summon monsters under obnoxiously situational conditions, and 2 of them beef attack by negligible amounts. 1 makes tokens pointlessly, 1 is a wall, inferior to spirit reaper, marshmallon, and in an arcanaforce deck (that runs high tributes), gellenduo. one is a double tributer, that is once more outclassed by gellenduo. one is used in a lockdown. one is a kuriboh, and when hes not a kuriboh, hes a funking redundant piece of sheet. if you have a 24 beater, your opponent will not be attacking. one is a bad boss monster. and one is a half decent boss monster, still outclassed by similarly conditional cards like plasma.

 

 

the empress is awful. at 13 base, 18 if pumped by the emperor, which is a -2 from the hand all in itself, its still an easy run-over by anything in this meta. its situational in that your opponent cannot feasibly be that stupid, and if he absolutely is, it still -1's your hand for the arcana force you /might/ have in your hand thats /probably/ bad and vulnerable (because they all are). now you're at -3, and your opponent has 1+ field presence, and can still run over your sheet because its all weak. assuming you might have honest, youre now at -4 for something like 2k- damage and 2-3 field presence. great funking job. youve just been forced to overextend to make that jabroni any useful. and good luck recovering that hand with the piss poor draw engine that is lucky chance and cup of ace.

light barrier's argument would work if i hadnt specifically said that even if you always got to pick their heads effects, theyre still near useless. because i did say that. im pretty sure i must have, thats one of the major things against arcana force. theyre heads effects are generally bad.

also, the empress is outclassed by any card from ultimate offering to double summon. or just monster reborn. funk, id rather have autonomous action unit. for monsters? its outclassed by athena. 8 times over.

 

 

next

im not saying the deck will be good, im saying that by the unholy power of honest, you can easily win a duel for him alone and some light jank on the field.

its true. sad, but true.

 

 

next

theyre bad.

 

 

 

 

next

your terribad deck fixes, addressed in order:

 

-the magician

hes a beater. and given the number of spells and a bit of strategic playing, i can keep him as a consistent beater for the turn i play him. i assume hell die after, or be protected by venus-emperor. the point is to make him like a cancer-prone-jain. one turn, boom, next turn die. simple.

 

-the fool

maybe youre unfamiliar with this meta, which is why it sounds like a good idea to run 3. let me enlighten you:

the reason to almost not run this card completely

if you still dont get it, you arent worth talking to. suffice it to say that the deck is built to be aggressive, not to stall.

 

-shining angel

let me enlighten you as to its targets:

the emperor is a beater. the magician i wouldnt search because getting him on my opponents turn is bad. another shining to shield. the fool to shield, assuming im not playing gbs. an honest to bounce and then use to win the funking game. so i can use it to -1 my deck, summon a beater, a shield, a niever shield, or a superdeluxefuckyoushrinkonsteroids.

4 potential targets run at a total of 9. that does not warrant the use of 3. 2 is fine. having a 3rd doesnt alter the gameplay at all, especially not with the fool in the deck. in fact, if anything it increases dead draws.

 

-the empress

ive already discussed whats wrong with her. shes a situational -1 from the hand, that will usually get eaten alive before she gets a chance to work. effects that trigger only on your opponents turn and only under certain circumstances that he can easily avoid by withholding his summon (or using specials), at least till after its dead, are pretty funking bad. furthermore, consider my number of arcanas. its like 8. i dont count dark ruler because he has nothing to do with the arcanas, excluding the coin flip effect. what are the odds that when empress hits the field, ill either A. have any of those in my hand, B. want to summon any of them?

3 go right out the window with that logic because summoning the magician on your opponents turn is funking stupid. if i have a fool in my hand, i should have set him instead of played the fail empress. the emperor would be the only one id want to get. so i have 3 cards in the deck id like to target with her effect, under specific situational circumstances that could and likely will end up with me taking some damage because shes fuckweak at 13.

 

-chariot

a 17 attack goyo or a free 17 beater for your opponent thats not affected by venus. good funking gret. its heads effect is mildly useful, if situational. i may consider it. but for right now.. eh. maybe id drop a fool and a magician for a pair. more beaters probably wouldnt hurt.

assuming i got the heads effect. but light barriervenus could help with that.

 

-temperance

being a 24 attack 1 trib does /not/ make this card a monarch. in fact, it makes it mediocre at best because its on par with all the other funking monarchs in attack. when you consider its actual effect, it makes it flat out sheet. id rather run honest than a kuriboh. but that aside, its effect doesnt make any sense.

if you have a 24 beater on the field, your opponent will not be attacking with anything weaker.

if he doesnt attack, temperance's effect is useless.

if he does have something stronger, hell kill temperance, which still ignores his effect.

wtf? the only thing that could happen here is that he backfires and fucks over your offensive.

 

 

-the moon

im trying to figure out how giving your opponent a free monster, especially in this era of synchros and monarchs, could possibly ever be a good idea. if it was done on the mainphase, then it might be situationally good to -1 yourself in order to deal some damage, and get something like shinings effect anyway. but its endphase. so please enlighten me onto how this could possibly not hurt you.

also, this isnt a world lock. so his tokens are pointless to me. theyre also bad in a world lock. the best way to do world lock is samsara and treeborn. or like, quillbolts and iron wall. plaguey with a cosr. etc.

 

 

-book of eclipse

should never be run outside of mill decks or exodia decks. ever.

EVER. shut up.

 

-book of moon

no room. no time.

 

-mirror force

no time. staples should not take the place of actual cards in the deck.

 

-roar

the fool /is/ a roar, except in the case of gbs. thus, no space, no time. see above.

 

-tt

this deck has a hard enough time swarming as it is, now you want me to blow up my own field?

funk that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-gah.

there.

/rant.

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your grievances' date=' addressed in order:

 

variety would be nice, if it were a toolbox. its not.

warriors are a toolbox. gbs are a toolbox. even ls provide a better toolbox. theres no arcana that special summons from the grave, no arcana that protects others, no arcana that blows s*** up, etc etc. 2 of them special summon monsters under obnoxiously situational conditions, and 2 of them beef attack by negligible amounts. 1 makes tokens pointlessly, 1 is a wall, inferior to spirit reaper, marshmallon, and in an arcanaforce deck (that runs high tributes), gellenduo. one is a double tributer, that is once more outclassed by gellenduo. one is used in a lockdown. one is a kuriboh, and when hes not a kuriboh, hes a f***ing redundant piece of s***. if you have a 24 beater, your opponent will not be attacking. one is a bad boss monster. and one is a half decent boss monster, still outclassed by similarly conditional cards like plasma.

 

the empress is awful. at 13 base, 18 if pumped by the emperor, which is a -2 from the hand all in itself, its still an easy run-over by anything in this meta. its situational in that your opponent cannot feasibly be that stupid, and if he absolutely is, it still -1's your hand for the arcana force you /might/ have in your hand thats /probably/ bad and vulnerable (because they all are). now you're at -3, and your opponent has 1+ field presence, and can still run over your s*** because its all weak. assuming you might have honest, youre now at -4 for something like 2k- damage and 2-3 field presence. great f***ing job. youve just been forced to overextend to make that b**** any useful. and good luck recovering that hand with the piss poor draw engine that is lucky chance and cup of ace.

light barrier's argument would work if i hadnt specifically said that even if you always got to pick their heads effects, theyre still near useless. because i did say that. im pretty sure i must have, thats one of the major things against arcana force. theyre heads effects are generally bad.

also, the empress is outclassed by any card from ultimate offering to double summon. or just monster reborn. f***, id rather have autonomous action unit. for monsters? its outclassed by athena. 8 times over.

 

 

next

im not saying the deck will be good, im saying that by the unholy power of honest, you can easily win a duel for him alone and some light jank on the field.

its true. sad, but true.

 

 

next

theyre bad.

 

 

 

 

next

your terribad deck fixes, addressed in order:

 

-the magician

hes a beater. and given the number of spells and a bit of strategic playing, i can keep him as a consistent beater for the turn i play him. i assume hell die after, or be protected by venus-emperor. the point is to make him like a cancer-prone-jain. one turn, boom, next turn die. simple.

 

-the fool

maybe youre unfamiliar with this meta, which is why it sounds like a good idea to run 3. let me enlighten you:

the reason to almost not run this card completely

if you still dont get it, you arent worth talking to. suffice it to say that the deck is built to be aggressive, not to stall.

 

-shining angel

let me enlighten you as to its targets:

the emperor is a beater. the magician i wouldnt search because getting him on my opponents turn is bad. another shining to shield. the fool to shield, assuming im not playing gbs. an honest to bounce and then use to win the f***ing game. so i can use it to -1 my deck, summon a beater, a shield, a niever shield, or a superdeluxefuckyoushrinkonsteroids.

4 potential targets run at a total of 9. that does not warrant the use of 3. 2 is fine. having a 3rd doesnt alter the gameplay at all, especially not with the fool in the deck. in fact, if anything it increases dead draws.

 

-the empress

ive already discussed whats wrong with her. shes a situational -1 from the hand, that will usually get eaten alive before she gets a chance to work. effects that trigger only on your opponents turn and only under certain circumstances that he can easily avoid by withholding his summon (or using specials), at least till after its dead, are pretty f***ing bad. furthermore, consider my number of arcanas. its like 8. i dont count dark ruler because he has nothing to do with the arcanas, excluding the coin flip effect. what are the odds that when empress hits the field, ill either A. have any of those in my hand, B. want to summon any of them?

3 go right out the window with that logic because summoning the magician on your opponents turn is f***ing stupid. if i have a fool in my hand, i should have set him instead of played the fail empress. the emperor would be the only one id want to get. so i have 3 cards in the deck id like to target with her effect, under specific situational circumstances that could and likely will end up with me taking some damage because shes fuckweak at 13.

 

-chariot

a 17 attack goyo or a free 17 beater for your opponent thats not affected by venus. good f***ing gret. its heads effect is mildly useful, if situational. i may consider it. but for right now.. eh. maybe id drop a fool and a magician for a pair. more beaters probably wouldnt hurt.

assuming i got the heads effect. but light barriervenus could help with that.

 

-temperance

being a 24 attack 1 trib does /not/ make this card a monarch. in fact, it makes it mediocre at best because its on par with all the other f***ing monarchs in attack. when you consider its actual effect, it makes it flat out s***. id rather run honest than a kuriboh. but that aside, its effect doesnt make any sense.

if you have a 24 beater on the field, your opponent will not be attacking with anything weaker.

if he doesnt attack, temperance's effect is useless.

if he does have something stronger, hell kill temperance, which still ignores his effect.

wtf? the only thing that could happen here is that he backfires and fucks over your offensive.

 

 

-the moon

im trying to figure out how giving your opponent a free monster, especially in this era of synchros and monarchs, could possibly ever be a good idea. if it was done on the mainphase, then it might be situationally good to -1 yourself in order to deal some damage, and get something like shinings effect anyway. but its endphase. so please enlighten me onto how this could possibly not hurt you.

also, this isnt a world lock. so his tokens are pointless to me. theyre also bad in a world lock. the best way to do world lock is samsara and treeborn. or like, quillbolts and iron wall. plaguey with a cosr. etc.

 

 

-book of eclipse

should never be run outside of mill decks or exodia decks. ever.

EVER. shut up.

 

-book of moon

no room. no time.

 

-mirror force

no time. staples should not take the place of actual cards in the deck.

 

-roar

the fool /is/ a roar, except in the case of gbs. thus, no space, no time. see above.

 

-tt

this deck has a hard enough time swarming as it is, now you want me to blow up my own field?

f*** that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-gah.

there.

/rant.

 

You really go the extra mile when you rant don't you? Anyway, I understand your reasoning on why you choose everyone of your cards and why you choose not to run certain cards.

As for the moon, "some" is a HUGE exaggeration for situations that the Tails effect would be better. What I meant to say is that you don't really plan for the situation at all and sometimes you just need a monster on your opponent's field or something like that. I would still choose the Heads effect any day of course, but just remember to manipulate any situation to your advantage. I'm sure there is at least 1 situation where handing over a monster would be good (like baiting out a certain synchro). Those situations you don't prepare for, they just happen.

Good to hear you'll consider using the Chariot. He's never failed me before, even when he's gotten Tails. May the Arcana Force be with you!

Anyway, I've stated all my arguments. I just have one question involving the bolded:

Some people say that it isn't good to be an archetype slave. you say that staples shouldn't take the place of actual cards in the deck. What do you think is a good staple card to archetype card ratio for decks like Arcana Force, Morphtronics, and other archetypes? Or does it vary with each archetype deck?

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it depends on the necessity of a staple.

for example:

monster reborn is flat out one of the best cards out there, and there should always be room for it in almost any deck. maybe dd and fliptrolls dont need it, but thats about it.

 

heavy storm is another good one that should always be there. (unless youre running a control or counter fairy deck of some sort, in which case trunade is usually better)

 

it varies with each type of deck.

brain control, for example, is useless in a fliptroll deck and most likely in an exodia deck as well, but useful in a beatdown, monarch, synchro, etc

 

some staples are absolutely amazing and should always be there.

some should be added in if you have the room to do so.

like book of moon.

of course some decks use book of moon much more, like glads, fliptrolls (its a good example in this rant), gadgets, or any sort of anti-meta...

 

 

it varies completely, but with some experience you can figure out whether or not staples are necessary in a deck.

 

 

 

as for being an archetype slave, that only really applies when you include every card of an archetype just because its in the archetype.

like running octavius in gbs, or the lovers in arcana force.

 

 

also, bad starwars pun.

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it depends on the necessity of a staple.

for example:

monster reborn is flat out one of the best cards out there' date=' and there should always be room for it in almost any deck. maybe dd and fliptrolls dont need it, but thats about it.

 

heavy storm is another good one that should always be there. (unless youre running a control or counter fairy deck of some sort, in which case trunade is usually better)

 

it varies with each type of deck.

brain control, for example, is useless in a fliptroll deck and most likely in an exodia deck as well, but useful in a beatdown, monarch, synchro, etc

 

some staples are absolutely amazing and should always be there.

some should be added in if you have the room to do so.

like book of moon.

of course some decks use book of moon much more, like glads, fliptrolls (its a good example in this rant), gadgets, or any sort of anti-meta...

 

 

it varies completely, but with some experience you can figure out whether or not staples are necessary in a deck.

 

 

 

as for being an archetype slave, that only really applies when you include every card of an archetype just because its in the archetype.

like running octavius in gbs, or the lovers in arcana force.

 

 

also, bad starwars pun.

[/quote']

 

Ok, thanks. Also, even though this is off the topic of AF, I'm just wondering: Is Soul Taker a good card to use in almost any, if not any, deck? Or can it only be used effectively in a select few decks? A 1 for 1 that gives the opponent 1000 Life Points sounds good to me.

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Talking about properly formatted Arcana Force decks to kidchaor is useless. He's gonna use every single shitty Arcana cards and every shitty arcana support card. And random cards that slightly follow the arcana force theme that Sartorius had in his deck.

 

You forgot that he sit under a lamp and scream: "I'VE SEEN THE LIGHT!!!!".

Anyway, the fool is cool.

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right now i am going to build an arcana deck. i have some of the cards to make it. all i need to do is buy more LODT SE and get lucky to pull different arcana's. if for any way i pull a JD i might sell it for money to buy arcanas on ebay if people doesnt want it at my school.

anyway i choose arcanas over lightsworns because i am always a fan of the tarot and studying it. when i saw the episodes where sartorious was dueling the cards he uses have the same properties as the tarots. i know the arcana series is not over(not yet) they still need to make the rest of the major arcanas and some more minor arcanas.

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right now i am going to build an arcana deck. i have some of the cards to make it. all i need to do is buy more LODT SE and get lucky to pull different arcana's. if for any way i pull a JD i might sell it for money to buy arcanas on ebay if people doesnt want it at my school.

anyway i choose arcanas over lightsworns because i am always a fan of the tarot and studying it. when i saw the episodes where sartorious was dueling the cards he uses have the same properties as the tarots. i know the arcana series is not over(not yet) they still need to make the rest of the major arcanas and some more minor arcanas.

I stopped @ bold. Seriously?

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Guest Supreme Gamesmaster
if for any way i pull a JD i might sell it for money to buy arcanas

I stopped @ bold. Seriously?

Fix'd.

 

1) if for any way i pull a JD i might sell it for money to buy arcanas on ebay if people doesnt want it at my school.

2) anyway i choose arcanas over lightsworns because i am always a fan of the tarot and studying it.

1) You now fail YGO.

2) You want the tarot, buy Persona 3; it's a helluva lot better than YGO's ever been. YGO botched the tarot completely with all this crap.

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1) You now fail YGO.

 

i have stopped there. their is no such thing as grades in ygo. im just love arcanas, is that a crime to choose arcanas over lightsworns. not all LS suck. but if what i want in a deck is arcanas then its not anyones place to question of what i am doing is right or wrong.

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