Naruto

[Phantom Roxas]

I have to disagree. If anything, it is the perfect way to deliver the theme, because rather than having the new generation surpass the old simply by having a better legacy, they personally defeat them in battle, drawing a direct comparison showing how their techniques and ideals are better.

[Legend Zero]

I have to disagree. If anything, it is the perfect way to deliver the theme, because rather than having the new generation surpass the old simply by having a better legacy, they personally defeat them in battle, drawing a direct comparison showing how their techniques and ideals are better.

But it invalidates everyone else, imo. Naruto and Team 7 beating Madara will not prove that the current generation is stronger, only that Team 7 is. idk, I just can't find a reason why Madara is a better final boss than Orochimaru (or even Kabutomaru) would have been.

[Phantom Roxas]

Actually, you bring up a good point with Kabuto. I think he serves as a way of showing how the new generation can fail to surpass the old. He was so intent on becoming like Orochimaru, but not bettering himself personally, and that led to his downfall. With Orochimaru, the defeats he's suffered through Shippuden really hurt his chances of being the final villain. Madara also presents another case of how the old generation could be bad for the new generation, because he corrupted Obito.

 

Of course, for Team 7, they've become the next Sannin, but at the same time, they've tried to find ways to define themselves. Naruto isn't just Jiraiya's apprentice, he's the Fourth Hokage's son and the messiah of the shinobi, embodying what was good about the old generations and using them to strike down the evil. Sasuke isn't just Orochimaru's successor, he's the legacy of the Uchiha, and while he is yet another example of corruption, he returned to help his village in their moment of weakness, doing what Madara would not. And finally, Sakura isn't the second coming of Tsunade, she's… Wait, I'm sorry, that's exactly what she is.

 

My point is, Team 7 is showing how this era is better than the last. As for everyone else, Team 10 embodies this in concept, since they're the new Ino-Shika-Cho, Team 8 has Hinata, and Team Guy has Rock Lee, who, like Kabuto, is trying to live up to follow in the footsteps of the person he admires.

[Merci]

and Team Guy has Rock Lee, who, like Kabuto, is trying to live up to follow in the footsteps of the person he admires.

 

Paralleling Rock Lee with Kabuto, and hence Might Guy with Orochimaru, feels really weird IMO.

 

And I'm sure Sakura isn't just the second coming of Tsunade! I'm sure she must have...some.....kind.....of....difference....? Uh. Wait. Lemme try to think of something. Um. I'm sure there's something!

[Phantom Roxas]

Paralleling Rock Lee with Kabuto, and hence Might Guy with Orochimaru, feels really weird IMO.

I know, it felt weird just typing that.

 

And I'm sure Sakura isn't just the second coming of Tsunade! I'm sure she must have...some.....kind.....of....difference....? Uh. Wait. Lemme try to think of something. Um. I'm sure there's something!

Oh, I know! She does not come from an important family! Actually, that's probably a good thing. Tsunade had the legacy of the Senju behind her, but it's pretty clear that the Haruno clan really isn't all that important. Sakura could change that.

[Merci]

I know, it felt weird just typing that.

 

Oh, I know! She does not come from an important family! Actually, that's probably a good thing. Tsunade had the legacy of the Senju behind her, but it's pretty clear that the Haruno clan really isn't all that important. Sakura could change that.

 

...I don't think Haruno is even a clan. I think it's just one of those ordinary surnames. If you look back, she has had absolutely no defining traits or special jutsu. She has amazing chakra control, but it's inherent. Otherwise, everyone in the Narutoverse would be in a clan, which wouldn't make very much sense.

 

Even so, this makes Sakura the second coming of Tsunade even more so - an apprentice who ends up succeeding her. The only way to top that would be to explicitly make her Tsunade's daughter.

[Phantom Roxas]

Yeah, so basically she's just some ordinary person who becomes special. Once again, Team 7 is proving how the theme can prevail.

[Legend Zero]

Actually, you bring up a good point with Kabuto. I think he serves as a way of showing how the new generation can fail to surpass the old. He was so intent on becoming like Orochimaru, but not bettering himself personally, and that led to his downfall. With Orochimaru, the defeats he's suffered through Shippuden really hurt his chances of being the final villain. Madara also presents another case of how the old generation could be bad for the new generation, because he corrupted Obito.

Kabuto's idea of copying the old instead of surpassing is a way better final message than Madara's "I'm an old ninja who is bad, so beat me." We already got that message when Naruto beat Kakazu. Madara just takes it to the extreme. Obito being evil could still have happened without Madara being the mastermind, imo. Orochimaru's defeat in early Ship were all explained (at least well enough in my eyes) by his weak state due to the limits of his body and Itachi having hax weapons.

Of course, for Team 7, they've become the next Sannin, but at the same time, they've tried to find ways to define themselves. Naruto isn't just Jiraiya's apprentice, he's the Fourth Hokage's son and the messiah of the shinobi, embodying what was good about the old generations and using them to strike down the evil. Sasuke isn't just Orochimaru's successor, he's the legacy of the Uchiha, and while he is yet another example of corruption, he returned to help his village in their moment of weakness, doing what Madara would not. And finally, Sakura isn't the second coming of Tsunade, she's… Wait, I'm sorry, that's exactly what she is.

 

My point is, Team 7 is showing how this era is better than the last. As for everyone else, Team 10 embodies this in concept, since they're the new Ino-Shika-Cho, Team 8 has Hinata, and Team Guy has Rock Lee, who, like Kabuto, is trying to live up to follow in the footsteps of the person he admires.

Agreed with the first part, but (on a completely separate note) how many times must they make the Sannin comparison? They do it way to often.

 

I mean this with no offense, but I just can't see your point. Team 10 is the new Ino-Shika-Cho? Yes, but why are they better? Choji got his glory moment, which I'm impressed with, but I have yet to see anything showing Shikamaru or Ino being better than their parents. One could hold water with Shikamaru beating Hidan was his moment, but it didn't seem like he was better than his dad. And lol no need to explain Ino I hope.

 

Team 8 has Hinata. So? She has made strides forward for sure, but how has she surpassed the previous generation? She isn't as strong as her dad. *This is considering the fact she just learned the 64 palms while pre-timeskip Neji could do 128

 

I honestly don't know how you're trying to prove that other characters surpass the older ones with the Lee/Kabuto comparison. Lee has done less surpassing in Shippuden than he did in the original series. Expand on drunken fist? No. Use the Gates like Gai (maybe to beat Kisame for a point)? No.

 

We were presumably given this many characters because Kishi wanted us to see how each (or most) of them gained strength and surpassed the last generation. If it was always going to be just Team 7 who surpassed while the others trailed behind at the end, then why let us get to know the others so personally?

 

Sorry if its scattered. Busy. :P

[Merci]

I mean this with no offense, but I just can't see your point. Team 10 is the new Ino-Shika-Cho? Yes, but why are they better? Choji got his glory moment, which I'm impressed with, but I have yet to see anything showing Shikamaru or Ino being better than their parents. One could hold water with Shikamaru beating Hidan was his moment, but it didn't seem like he was better than his dad.

 

Shikamaru's dad explicitly told his son that he was a genius with a level of thinking equal to that of a Hokage. If he wasn't so lazy all the time, he would've had the potential to become one. I'm pretty sure that means that translates into 'he's better than his dad' rather than 'you're just like me when I was your age'.

 

Team 8 has Hinata. So? She has made strides forward for sure, but how has she surpassed the previous generation? She isn't as strong as her dad. *This is considering the fact she just learned the 64 palms while pre-timeskip Neji could do 128

 

I don't really want to drag filler into this, but my favorite fillers happen to revolve (mostly) around Hinata, so...anyway, her abilities were expanded upon there.

 

Hinata's abilities aren't naturally apt in performing the Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms. Compared to Neji, while she doesn't have inherent strength, she has natural flexibility and coordination, which she can take advantage of to perform a technique she developed by herself called the Protection of the Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms.

 

There's also the Gentle Step Twin Lion Fists - which she presumably also developed by herself as it doesn't appear to be a main Hyuuga technique despite the advantages it offers - and it's the main reason she held her own against Pain for as long as she did, even destroying some of his chakra rods.

 

Now that her body has finally managed to perform the Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms, it's been implied that she can combine it with the Gentle Step Twin Lion Fists. That offers quite a large advantage for her. While she hasn't quite mastered the full technique yet while her father has, she's close, and she already has the ability to make up for the difference in power.

 

Or put it this way; it's like being talented at strokes and colors when everyone else is talented at drawing. Once you learn how to draw like everyone else, you suddenly gain a distinct advantage.

[Fusion X. Denver]

I mean this with no offense, but I just can't see your point. Team 10 is the new Ino-Shika-Cho? Yes, but why are they better? Choji got his glory moment, which I'm impressed with, but I have yet to see anything showing Shikamaru or Ino being better than their parents. One could hold water with Shikamaru beating Hidan was his moment, but it didn't seem like he was better than his dad. And lol no need to explain Ino I hope.

Actually, I think Ino's been doing great.

That's using her chakra to connect with like 30-40,000 people.

Without the head-channeler thingie they were using back at HQ.

And Shikamaru pretty much took over as Head Honcho planner with the Earth Style strategy plus whatever else the Alliance will do for the rest of this battle. 

 

As for me, I think it'd be a little unrealistic for all of the kids to be stronger than their parents at this point. I think it's more about showing how far they've grown and how they still have all this potential left that they can hone over the course of their lives to become even stronger. They may not have surpassed them yet, but you know they're on their way to doing it and that it'll happen. 

 

I see Madara being the Big Bad as the best way to truly unite the Allied Shinobi Forces and paving the way for a united land of shinobi by the end of this. Sure, Obito could've still done what he'd done without him, but I don't really see the way it turned out to be a downside compared to that potential outcome, but opinion's subjective after all.

[Legend Zero]

But we didn't see Hinata or Ino surpass the older generation. They just magically get these power ups with no reason other than to keep them useful/up to par. Hinata's Protection of the Eight puts her in a league with Lee, in which more was done with her in the original than in Shippuden. I also don't see how one can assume Hinata created the Twin Lion Step. She still is part of the main branch. Even if she doesn't get training from her dad it shouldn't mean that she receives no training from the Hyugas.

 

I was under the impression that the head thingy was for distance, not quantity. I could be completely wrong, I don't even know what its called.

 

We didn't see Ino do jack, just a "here you go, have some story ending relevance". Why couldn't we see more from Ino? Asuma's last words encouraged her to do better than Sakura, but we got nothing afterwards. Not even an expansion on Ino's interest in Sai.

 

I'm not saying that the series is horrible. Just that, looking back, I see such wasted potential. Same is true for almost every series.

[Merci]

But we didn't see Hinata or Ino surpass the older generation. They just magically get these power ups with no reason other than to keep them useful/up to par. Hinata's Protection of the Eight puts her in a league with Lee, in which more was done with her in the original than in Shippuden. I also don't see how one can assume Hinata created the Twin Lion Step. She still is part of the main branch. Even if she doesn't get training from her dad it shouldn't mean that she receives no training from the Hyugas.

 

I was under the impression that the head thingy was for distance, not quantity. I could be completely wrong, I don't even know what its called.

 

We didn't see Ino do jack, just a "here you go, have some story ending relevance". Why couldn't we see more from Ino? Asuma's last words encouraged her to do better than Sakura, but we got nothing afterwards. Not even an expansion on Ino's interest in Sai.

 

I'm not saying that the series is horrible. Just that, looking back, I see such wasted potential. Same is true for almost every series.

 

I wouldn't say that. Since this is the grand finale, Kishi just wants everyone to be epic.

 

But he was too busy focusing on the main characters and he did stretch out the plot quite a lot to accommodate for other characters. But if he did that too much, he would've bored his readers with near-endless subplots.

[Tentacruel]

Character development has never been one of Naruto's strong points. 

[Phantom Roxas]

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/637

 

[spoiler=Thoughts]First I got hit right in the feels.

 

Then I uttered "FUUUUUUUU-"

 

[Merci]

[spoiler=This chapter]

Well, well.

 

To be honest, as soon as I saw the Fourth Hokage's reaction in the previous chapter, I knew that his technique would be how Obito would be defeated in the end. It's touching, symbolic, and a little depressing as well. I thought Madara would then just whip out some other technique and still become the jinchuuriki.

 

But to my surprise, it didn't play out that way.

 

Well, well.

 

Wonder what's gonna happen to Madara now?

 

 

[Phantom Roxas]

I think we can agree that Obito is an awesome villain.

[Wizarus]

[spoiler=The Chapter]Obito you be trollin'. You had me fooled when you lost to Kakashi like that in your own dimension. And good job Madara, you managed to be the main villain again for all of 2 chapters.

 

[Fusion X. Denver]

I'm glad Obito isn't done just yet, he's the actual final villain of the series I'd say.

I'm just confused as to how he became the Jinchuriki like that, but I'm guessing we'll get an explanation next chapter.

[Tentacruel]

I legitimately did not expect that.  That was truly a good plot twist.

 

Good job Kishi. 

[Legend Zero]

I'm more concerned with why Madara doesn't seem to care.

 

Also, 4th Hokage fangirl-ing over here.

[Phantom Roxas]

That punk Madara still thinks he has a snowball's chance in Hell of stopping Obito. Now I have to wonder what was the point of Madara being revived, because Obito's plans have progressed exactly as he wanted.

[Monkey]

Is Madara aware that Obito is now the jinchuriki? I think Madara just thought that Obito was killed.

 

I want to know how Obito became the jinchuriki.

 

I feel Obito planned to use Madara just to tire the Shinobi Alliance out, simple as that

[Merci]

I feel Obito planned to use Madara just to tire the Shinobi Alliance out, simple as that

 

He never did plan anything with Madara, remember? Okay. So there was a plan at first, but then Madara died, fully believing that their puppet Nagato would resurrect him with Rinne Tensei.

 

Instead, it was Kabuto that brought him back, and with Edo Tensei. Obito must've changed his plans during the timeskip and he had to act fast, hence the real reason why he was worried about Kabuto successfully finding Madara's body. So all this time, he was just playing along like he was still following the original plan when the two met up.

 

In other words, Madara was never originally a key component in Obito's grand plan, as much as Madara liked to think he was.

[Flame Dragon]

I'm glad Obito isn't done just yet, he's the actual final villain of the series I'd say.

I'm just confused as to how he became the Jinchuriki like that, but I'm guessing we'll get an explanation next chapter.

 

 

Yea, I did not get that. I saw Madara coming back to life, Obito dyeing and bam, plot twist, and I'm like "wait what". Times like these that I REALLY like getting weekly shonen jump since it gives me another read at the chapter.

[Flame Dragon]

http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/638

 

Gogo early manga.