Summoner Monk [DISC]

[Sander]

it's CCVable. Not like being CCVable counts for anything since it should be banned too' date=' but assuming we can only get Summoner Monk banned and nothing else.

[/quote']

 

Summoner Monk can't be CCV'd, since you need to TRIBUTE a Dark for it's cost ¬_¬

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

See Konami? This is how you should make your cards.

Randomly splashing this card into any deck is incredibly stupid.

 

Summoner Monk should be banned. It's wrong on so many levels.

 

Prove it.

 

Prove it? Ban List placings are a matter of opinion' date=' these opinions can't be proven facts. They can be agreed upon, but no Ban List placement opinion can be a fact.

[/quote']

 

In my opinion, Chaos Emporer Dragon should be unlimited, because it isn't that good. I mean, Chaos Emporer Dragon costs 1000 Life Points and it kills your own cards as well as your own hand, not to mention it kills itself.

 

I know what you're thinking. "Nonono, CED should stay banned, because it has redicilious easy summoning conditions and a too powerfull effect. And it also creates too many lockdowns." So what? It's my opinion. The entire banlist is based on opinions, so I'm right and you're wrong, because it's my opinion and it cannot be proven by facts that CED is broken.

 

On second thought, I think that it is indeed redicilious at 3, so semi-limiting CED would make the game more balanced. Also, limit GB Gyzarus, because it can be countered with Solemn in my opinion.

 

Konami: Holy s***, you're a genius!!! I'll raise your salery. Thanks for making the game more balanced to play than it already was.

Me: You're welcome.

Konami: GEEEEEENNNNNNNIIIUUUUSSSSS!!!!!111!!!11

[/a normal day at Konami]

 

Just because opinions can't be facts doesn't mean there can't be stupid opinions.

 

 

 

By throwing out a Spell Card' date=' you can transform this into a Level 8 Synchro of your choice. You're effectively discarding a Spell Card to Normal Summon any Level 8 Synchro from your hand. Obviously you can't Normal Summon Synchro Monsters, let alone from your hand, but this lets you essentially do this. Now let's put THAT into perspective. Instead of the regular 2 Monster Tributes from the field for a LV8, you just discard 1 Spell Card from your hand.

[/quote']

E-Tele can do the same thing at the same cost. Should we ban that?

 

E-Tele is Limited, unsearchable, can't get a Synchro on its own, and when it does, it's not necessarily a LV8. Summon Priest is Unlimited, searchable, can, and always results in a LV8.

 

That's what Summoner Monk does. "Discard 1 Spell Card to turn me into Stardust Dragon' date=' Red Dragon Archfiend, Thought Ruler Archfiend, Dark End Dragon, and anything in between."

[/quote']

E-Tele can do the same thing at the same cost. Should we ban that?

 

No. No it can't. No that's not what it does.

 

THAT's just an option. The power of having any Level 4 monster you care to add to your Deck instantly out on the field' date=' while also gaining any effects it may have, is ridiculous.

[/quote']

The summon still comes at the cost of a spell. Also any problem targets would be banned on a good list.

 

Summoner is a problem target, which means this should be Limited at the least. Also, problem targets need to be a serious problem on their own before they can be banned due to Summoner. You can't ban every LV4 Tuner and Limited LV4 JUST because they happened to get ridiculous support. You have to go to the root, the ridiculous support.

 

You want Phantom of Chaos to quickly access any non-Summon trigger/non-hand or Grave location requirement monster effect you've got in your Grave?

PoC should be banned.

 

Under the assumption that we're just banning 1 card and not making a list right?

 

You want Diamond Dude for a cloned Spell effect to make up for your discarded Spell' date=' AND the extra field presence of Diamond as a monster?

[/quote']

 

You don't always get DiamondDudes effect. The extra field presence can be any monster that point is void.

 

No it isn't, if it does work, which is easy to do in a dedicated Deck which you put Diamond Dude into in the first place, it's free field presence, possibly even better if the DHDD's card was a Spell, as opposed to the regular not free field presence, which is still good.

 

You want Snipe Hunter to roll out and murder a few cards?

Snipe should be banned.

 

We're under the assumption that we're banning just one card and not making a list right?

 

You want Rescue Cat for another 2 monsters for even MORE field presence?

The monster you get from the Cat are gone at turns end it's hard to put Cat into just any deck.

 

But it's not hard to put Summon Priest in "just any Deck"' date=' and you'll often have a use for the field presence you got via Cat. It's why people run Cat in the first place.[/b']

 

The field presence alone is ridiculous' date='

[/quote']

1 monster is ridiculous? What?

 

Summon Priest isn't Limited. I'm arguing for ban but will settle for Limit.

 

but also instantly gaining any Level 4 non-Summon trigger/non-hand or Grave location requirement TOO is cheap. Also having the option of Normal Summoning any LV8 Synchro of your choice with the discard of a Spell TOO is cheap (not to mention this can be done AFTER you activate the effect of the LV4 you grabbed).

how is it too cheap? You get a monster for the cost of a spell. Seems like a normal +0 to me.

 

An insane range of monsters' date=' and it's from the Deck. It turns any Spell into an improved version of E-Tele.[/b']

 

it's CCVable. Not like being CCVable counts for anything since it should be banned too' date=' but assuming we can only get Summoner Monk banned and nothing else.

[/quote']

If you know CCV should be banned why bring it up?

 

Under the assumption.

 

A Monster on the field is more valuable than a Spell in hand' date=' as it generates field presence.

[/quote']

How is this bad for the game?

 

It's splashable into mostly every Deck, and it's too much presence for your opponent to be able to handle if banworthy nukes are banned.

 

+0s are good' date=' especially when they cost a card from your hand for a field monster. This's what makes cards like Smashing Ground and Fissure useful as opposed to useless because you're just losing a card for another. This's what makes Raiza and Caius useful. But with Summoner Monk you get any effect from any Level 4 instead of being forced to use a destruction,

[/quote']

So the only kind of spells are destruction?

 

No. I was implying that Summoner is that much better than Monarchs and 1-for-1s.

 

which can include another Summoner Monk' date=' a quick monster destruction via Exiled Force, AND the fact that you can upgrade Summoner to a Synchro with the discarding of a Spell.

[/quote']

You make it sound like you can do all that at once. You can only get one Synchro or the other Priest, which can give you another monster but that comes at the cost of another spell. The monster destruction still comes at the cost of Exile, still +0.

 

Unintended, as I think you know already.

 

By discarding a Spell Card' date=' Summoner Monk can generate more field presence,

[/quote']

How is that bad for the game?

 

Because your opponent would have to use broken effects to catch up with you in field presence if Summoner isn't Limited.

 

AND be able to have a 2/3 chance of destroying a monster with a discard multiple times per tern (Snipe)

Snipe should be banned.

 

Yes.

 

activating the effect of another Spell Card to make up for your loss of a Spell Card' date=' rendering your extra field presence free (Diamond Dude),

[/quote']

That isn't always going to happen.

 

Once you've thinned your Deck with Summoner, and assuming your Spell lineup justifies adding Diamond to your Deck, it happens enough.

 

destroy a Spell or Trap (Breaker)

lol

 

lol breaker sux rite?

 

get a Hero to your hand' date=' making up for your discard (Stratos),

[/quote']

Stratos is always a plus one. Using Priest only makes it a bit easier.

 

The "a bit easier" is the problem here. It was already easy enough with Stratos. Now that any Spell at all = Stratos, it's a bit of a problem.

 

be able to Special Summon 2 LV3 or lower Beasts (Rescue Cat)' date='

[/quote']

Only place I can think of this working well is in a deck made for Beasts or in GBs.

 

Just because it isn't a splashable combo doesn't mean it's bad.

 

be able to gain any monster effect in your Graveyard (Phantom of Chaos)' date='

[/quote']

Ban PoC

 

I don't control the list. =/ This thread isn't a list either.

 

be able to evolve into a LV8 Synchro of your choice (Hyper Synchron' date=' Rose, etc.), and much more.

[/quote']

E-Tele

 

E-Tele doesn't = a LV8 Synchro on its own.

 

It's the options that's the problem. It can provide field presence and gain such a huge magnitude of effects for you it's ridiculous. There're over 1000 LV4 monsters in the TCG. Speaks for itself.

Of those 1000 I''m going to say like 1/2 are random beatsticks and another 1/4 are just crap.

 

250 viable targets not good enough for you?

 

Indeed' date=' there ARE other cards which let you Special Summon from the Deck, but they have much more of a Limited range, and usually have conditions which would take them off the field, like with Attribute-based battle searchers. This loses you field presence.

[/quote']

And costs hand presence.

 

Field presence is obviously better.

 

There's E-Tele' date=' but it has a MUCH more restricted range and is limited to 1.

[/quote']

The targets are good and it shouldn't be at 1.

 

Krebons doesn't automatically beat out any LV4 in existence in any situation.

 

There's GK Spy' date=' but then again, a much more restricted range and is often destroyed when its effect activates.

[/quote']

Who?

 

You haven't heard of GK Spy? It's a damn legit card.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

destroy a Spell or Trap (Breaker)

lol

 

lol breaker sux rite?

 

Breaker has to be Normal summoned for its effect....anyway this works amazingly in any endymion deck thought.....

 

 

OT: The card is good....But I don't know I it is bannable....Maybe at One....or 2...is at 2 right now......right?

[Father Wolf]

Summer Monk can be splashed into nearly any deck making it nearly an instant staple.

 

Favorite thing to do is discard lolspell that i cant use this turn and get Honest into my hand for later.

[Master Hyperion]

See Konami? This is how you should make your cards.

Randomly splashing this card into any deck is incredibly stupid.

 

Summoner Monk should be banned. It's wrong on so many levels.

 

Prove it.

 

Prove it? Ban List placings are a matter of opinion' date=' these opinions can't be proven facts. They can be agreed upon, but no Ban List placement opinion can be a fact.

[/quote']

 

In my opinion, Chaos Emporer Dragon should be unlimited, because it isn't that good. I mean, Chaos Emporer Dragon costs 1000 Life Points and it kills your own cards as well as your own hand, not to mention it kills itself.

 

I know what you're thinking. "Nonono, CED should stay banned, because it has redicilious easy summoning conditions and a too powerfull effect. And it also creates too many lockdowns." So what? It's my opinion. The entire banlist is based on opinions, so I'm right and you're wrong, because it's my opinion and it cannot be proven by facts that CED is broken.

 

On second thought, I think that it is indeed redicilious at 3, so semi-limiting CED would make the game more balanced. Also, limit GB Gyzarus, because it can be countered with Solemn in my opinion.

 

Konami: Holy s***, you're a genius!!! I'll raise your salery. Thanks for making the game more balanced to play than it already was.

Me: You're welcome.

Konami: GEEEEEENNNNNNNIIIUUUUSSSSS!!!!!111!!!11

[/a normal day at Konami]

 

Just because opinions can't be facts doesn't mean there can't be stupid opinions.

 

You don't get it, do you?

 

Contain cards on banlist are placed there, because of the FACT that cards are damaging the game horribly.

 

The current banlist is indeed alot of baised on other people's opinions. But it shouldn't... at all.

 

The banlist should be based on FACTS that contain cards that are damaging the game horribly. If we keep having a list based on other people's opinion who want to use broken cards like Monster Reborn, the list will never be fixed and the game still remains a horrible mess.

 

1 perfect example is the already stated Monster Reborn. Why did they bring it back? Because some idiot wanted to have generetic revival in the game and takes fully advange of other stupid people who think the same thing, so it can create a group of whining people which want a horribly broken card back. And because Konami's usually bases their list on opinions, they immediatly chance the opinion to a fact. This is why Konami's a total idiot.

 

They do have the common sense to hit contain cards, but Konami is affraid that whiney bastards come to their front door, complaining that they can't use their precious overpowered cards, so Konami goes off hitting cards that don't even deserve to be hit at all, just because 1 card ruins the game horribly, while they can easily ban that 1 card, because it's a FACT that it ruins the game horribly. DAD and the CyDra series being the famous examples, while contain balanced draw cards, Zombie support and balanced support for a contain types are victim for a crime they didn't commited.

 

But why they ban Chaos Emporer Dragon after 1 format immediatly and still leave JD at 2 for a long time is still a mystery to me. Did their brain cells died when Yugioh GX started?

[lordtyson]

bet it gets limited

[Spiff!]

I'd say semi'd.

[tonisanoob]

IT IS SEMID!

[.:Incognito:.]

hmmmm

some of the stuff polaris said i didnt undwerstand but i agrre

 

with polaris

[Saturn of Elemia]

I used this card in one of the Tag Force games with Snipe Hunter and Ojamagic. Needless to say, I had a LOT of fun with that deck... >=3

 

It's a pretty good card (and it was either Limited or Semi-Limited in the game, I forget).

[Spiff!]

Snipe and Ojamagic with this = 3 shots at killing things.

 

Epic Win.

Summon Priest in Anti-Meta Fiends...

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

See Konami? This is how you should make your cards.

Randomly splashing this card into any deck is incredibly stupid.

 

Summoner Monk should be banned. It's wrong on so many levels.

 

Prove it.

 

Prove it? Ban List placings are a matter of opinion' date=' these opinions can't be proven facts. They can be agreed upon, but no Ban List placement opinion can be a fact.

[/quote']

 

In my opinion, Chaos Emporer Dragon should be unlimited, because it isn't that good. I mean, Chaos Emporer Dragon costs 1000 Life Points and it kills your own cards as well as your own hand, not to mention it kills itself.

 

I know what you're thinking. "Nonono, CED should stay banned, because it has redicilious easy summoning conditions and a too powerfull effect. And it also creates too many lockdowns." So what? It's my opinion. The entire banlist is based on opinions, so I'm right and you're wrong, because it's my opinion and it cannot be proven by facts that CED is broken.

 

On second thought, I think that it is indeed redicilious at 3, so semi-limiting CED would make the game more balanced. Also, limit GB Gyzarus, because it can be countered with Solemn in my opinion.

 

Konami: Holy s***, you're a genius!!! I'll raise your salery. Thanks for making the game more balanced to play than it already was.

Me: You're welcome.

Konami: GEEEEEENNNNNNNIIIUUUUSSSSS!!!!!111!!!11

[/a normal day at Konami]

 

Just because opinions can't be facts doesn't mean there can't be stupid opinions.

 

You don't get it, do you?

 

Contain cards on banlist are placed there, because of the FACT that cards are damaging the game horribly.

 

This is where it all links back to opinion, because which cards "damage the game horribly" is opinion-based. Everything is two-sided for every card, neither side is right nor wrong, both are opinions. Neither side can actually be proven WRONG unless there are FACTS involved. You can get any hoard of people of high status to agree with you, or make the gut with the opposing opinion look like an idiot, but without PROVEN FACTS, neither opinion can EVER be wrong. See?

 

Let's take Chaos Emperor for example, widely renowned as the most broken card released.

 

Let's say one person is in the belief that it's broken and deserves its ban, as most would quickly agree with. Then there's another person who's is in the belief that its nuke is balanced due to a fair placement of drawbacks.

 

You can DISAGREE with the person who believes its balanced, but you can't prove them wrong, as there's no possible means of doing so. There are no laws for the measurement of balance in Yu-Gi-Oh cards. No factual, proven methods of proving where a card should be placed on the ban list. It's all based on opinions, and even if it's the wildest argument with a total lack of common sense, you can't prove it wrong. You can only disagree. It is physically impossible to prove them wrong without mathematical methodology.

 

This renders comments such as "Prove it" a waste of good page space. It's impossible to prove whether a card is balanced or not. It's impossible to prove where a card should be placed on a ban list. People can only use common sense and reinforce their arguments to make their opinion seem more like common sense than that of the opposing arguer(s).

[Flame Dragon]

E-Tele is Limited' date=' unsearchable, can't get a Synchro on its own, and when it does, it's not necessarily a LV8. Summon Priest is Unlimited, searchable, can, and always results in a LV8.[/b']

E-Tele shouldn't be limit. Priest alone can't get a synchro. Always getting a level 8 is a problem. Here their is no versatility and you will only be getting the level 8. With Tele you can get anything from a 3 and higher. Also check your facts before you post.

 

No. No it can't. No that's not what it does.

Yes they are. For this you need a spell and this to get a synchro. for Tele you need a monster and Tele to get a synchro. On both side you have the 1 monster and 1 spell. Their the same.

Summoner is a problem target' date=' which means this should be Limited at the least. Also, problem targets need to be a serious problem on their own before they can be banned due to Summoner. You can't ban every LV4 Tuner and Limited LV4 JUST because they happened to get ridiculous support. You have to go to the root, the ridiculous support.

[/quote']

How is he a problem target. You drop a spell and get another Priest that can only serve to get another level 4. Why would you need the extra Priest? Just take the level 4 with the first one. If you take another Priest you need to drop another Spell to make use of the effect. Also ther is the fact that overextending.

Under the assumption that we're just banning 1 card and not making a list right?

What are you saying? If I'm reading it right then you can't ban cards like that. If we could we could ban any decent Dark monster that worked well with CCV.

No it isn't' date=' if it does work, which is easy to do in a dedicated Deck which you put Diamond Dude into in the first place, it's free field presence, possibly even better if the DHDD's card was a Spell, as opposed to the regular not free field presence, which is still good.[/b']

Decks centered around DD aren' that good. DD can go into many decks. If I'm not mistaken their were a few in one of the last SJC. The free field pressence isn't free. Also why pick DD when, as you already said, their are many other targets.

We're under the assumption that we're banning just one card and not making a list right?

What are you saying? If I'm reading it right then you can't ban cards like that. If we could we could ban any decent Dark monster that worked well with CCV.

But it's not hard to put Summon Priest in "just any Deck"' date=' and you'll often have a use for the field presence you got via Cat. It's why people run Cat in the first place.[/b']

[/quot]

It isn't hard to put Priest in any deck. Same goes with PSZ. Does that mean he should be banned? People run Cat in decks that can use Cat, of which I know 2 that can use him well. What Cat can do does doesn't matter since his damage is limited to sertain decks and in their Priest doesn't break the deck. Only make it a bit faster.

Summon Priest isn't Limited. I'm arguing for ban but will settle for Limit.

In theory Priest could be limited' date=' but I fail to see the damage he causes if he's at 3.

An insane range of monsters, and it's from the Deck. It turns any Spell into an improved version of E-Tele.

Just because it has range doesn't make it good.

It's splashable into mostly every Deck' date=' and it's too much presence for your opponent to be able to handle if banworthy nukes are banned.[/b']

So the max field presence is 2 Priests and a synchro and I fail so see how the extra 2 Priests is any harder to get rid of then a Stardust. So just counting the Stardust I fail to so how that is to much presence.

Because your opponent would have to use broken effects to catch up with you in field presence if Summoner isn't Limited.

You get at best 2 Priests and a synchro. I fail to see how the 2 priests make this any hard to get the advantage back to you than if they only had the 1 synchro.

lol breaker sux rite?

Think before you type.

The "a bit easier" is the problem here. It was already easy enough with Stratos. Now that any Spell at all = Stratos' date=' it's a bit of a problem.[/b']

How is getting a Hero to the hand a problem? The main one someone would take is Malicious and that isn't much of a problem

Just because it isn't a splashable combo doesn't mean it's bad.

No' date=' it doesn't make it bad, but it also doesn't make it a problem.

I don't control the list. =/ This thread isn't a list either.

Doesn't matter. When looking at how cards should be banned you don't count in cards that should be banned for other reasons.

E-Tele doesn't = a LV8 Synchro on its own.

Priest doesn't = a Level 8 on it's own.

250 viable targets not good enough for you?

No' date=' because no one would run that many. Ina ny given deck their may be 10-15 level 4, and even that might be a bit high. Of those 10-15 monster I fail to see a problem with dropping a spell to get 1.

Field presence is obviously better.

That isn't a flat out fact since it is far eisier for the opponent to get rid of your field presence then hand.

Krebons doesn't automatically beat out any LV4 in existence in any situation.

Any level 4 doesn't beat out Krebons in any situation.

[sbdnate]

It's really not all that amazing... There are only a couple of decks it can fit in...

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

E-Tele is Limited' date=' unsearchable, can't get a Synchro on its own, and when it does, it's not necessarily a LV8. Summon Priest is Unlimited, searchable, can, and always results in a LV8.[/b']

E-Tele shouldn't be limit. Priest alone can't get a synchro. Always getting a level 8 is a problem. Here their is no versatility and you will only be getting the level 8. With Tele you can get anything from a 3 and higher. Also check your facts before you post.

 

That's aside from the point, it IS "limit", and I'm arguing for the ban or at least limitation of Summon Priest. Priest alone can get a Synchro. By using its effect, it can single-handedly get you a Synchro, which can also be Level 6 with Road Synchron. The majority of good Synchros are Level 6 or 8 in the first place, not to mention Tele still forces you to get a Synchro from the levels you have. Which facts am I supposed to be checking?

 

No. No it can't. No that's not what it does.

Yes they are. For this you need a spell and this to get a synchro. for Tele you need a monster and Tele to get a synchro. On both side you have the 1 monster and 1 spell. Their the same.

 

Getting a second monster on the field is harder than having a Spell in your hand. With this' date=' you'll already have the two monsters you need to Sync. With Tele, you still need to find a way to Summon another monster for a Sync if you haven't done so yet. Then that monster needs to be a certain Level to ensure you're getting a good Synchro. You can't go wrong with Level 8 Synchros.[/u']

 

Summoner is a problem target' date=' which means this should be Limited at the least. Also, problem targets need to be a serious problem on their own before they can be banned due to Summoner. You can't ban every LV4 Tuner and Limited LV4 JUST because they happened to get ridiculous support. You have to go to the root, the ridiculous support.

[/quote']

How is he a problem target. You drop a spell and get another Priest that can only serve to get another level 4. Why would you need the extra Priest? Just take the level 4 with the first one. If you take another Priest you need to drop another Spell to make use of the effect. Also ther is the fact that overextending.

 

Field presence, and you can get 2 Synchros out of it if you also manage to Special Summon a Tuner that turn or had previously Summoned one.

 

Under the assumption that we're just banning 1 card and not making a list right?

What are you saying? If I'm reading it right then you can't ban cards like that. If we could we could ban any decent Dark monster that worked well with CCV.

 

This would still be banworthy in my opinion' date=' limitworthy at the least, were CCV banned. CCV's just an extra thing its got going for it.[/u']

 

No it isn't' date=' if it does work, which is easy to do in a dedicated Deck which you put Diamond Dude into in the first place, it's free field presence, possibly even better if the DHDD's card was a Spell, as opposed to the regular not free field presence, which is still good.[/b']

Decks centered around DD aren' that good. DD can go into many decks. If I'm not mistaken their were a few in one of the last SJC. The free field pressence isn't free. Also why pick DD when, as you already said, their are many other targets.

 

The free field presence IS free if DD works. Why pick DD when there're so many other targets? Good question. DDs just an extra niceity when you have the versatility of Summoner. The versatility's the biggest problem.

 

We're under the assumption that we're banning just one card and not making a list right?

What are you saying? If I'm reading it right then you can't ban cards like that. If we could we could ban any decent Dark monster that worked well with CCV.

But it's not hard to put Summon Priest in "just any Deck"' date=' and you'll often have a use for the field presence you got via Cat. It's why people run Cat in the first place.[/b']

It isn't hard to put Priest in any deck. Same goes with PSZ. Does that mean he should be banned? People run Cat in decks that can use Cat, of which I know 2 that can use him well. What Cat can do does doesn't matter since his damage is limited to sertain decks and in their Priest doesn't break the deck. Only make it a bit faster.

 

Plague can't bang out a Synchro single-handedly. Plague's theme support. There're only 2 possible combinations of 40-60 cards that can use Cat? I lol'd.

 

Summon Priest isn't Limited. I'm arguing for ban but will settle for Limit.

In theory Priest could be limited' date=' but I fail to see the damage he causes if he's at 3.

 

[u']Accessing other copies of itself. Limit actually sounds about right to me. We have an agreement? :P

 

An insane range of monsters' date=' and it's from the Deck. It turns any Spell into an improved version of E-Tele.[/b']

Just because it has range doesn't make it good.

It's splashable into mostly every Deck' date=' and it's too much presence for your opponent to be able to handle if banworthy nukes are banned.[/b']

So the max field presence is 2 Priests and a synchro and I fail so see how the extra 2 Priests is any harder to get rid of then a Stardust. So just counting the Stardust I fail to so how that is to much presence.

 

2 Summoner Monks = 3 monsters ≠ 1 Stardust.

 

Because your opponent would have to use broken effects to catch up with you in field presence if Summoner isn't Limited.

You get at best 2 Priests and a synchro. I fail to see how the 2 priests make this any hard to get the advantage back to you than if they only had the 1 synchro.

 

You had to say this twice?

 

lol breaker sux rite?

Think before you type.

 

Touché. XD

 

The "a bit easier" is the problem here. It was already easy enough with Stratos. Now that any Spell at all = Stratos' date=' it's a bit of a problem.[/b']

How is getting a Hero to the hand a problem? The main one someone would take is Malicious and that isn't much of a problem

 

Let me rephrase that. Any Spell becoming an extra LV4 1800 ATK monster's worth of field presence AND a Hero to the hand is a bit of a problem. A Hero in hand can have various uses, it can be used as discard fodder or in D-Heroes' case D-Draw. It can also be Diamond Dude or Plasma, Plasma can be used also as Trade-In fodder. And then on the E-Heroes' side you could get Prisma.

 

I don't control the list. =/ This thread isn't a list either.

Doesn't matter. When looking at how cards should be banned you don't count in cards that should be banned for other reasons.

 

Even factoring in CCV and Airbellum' date=' my stance on Monk doesn't change. Should still be Limited.[/u']

 

E-Tele doesn't = a LV8 Synchro on its own.

Priest doesn't = a Level 8 on it's own.

 

Yes it does. Summoner + its effect = LV8 Sync' date=' single-handedly done by Summoner.[/u']

 

250 viable targets not good enough for you?

No' date=' because no one would run that many. Ina ny given deck their may be 10-15 level 4, and even that might be a bit high. Of those 10-15 monster I fail to see a problem with dropping a spell to get 1.

 

[u']Well, you have around 250 viable Summon Priest targets for Deck construction, but in more than 1 copy, Summoner is a problem due to its field presence.

 

Field presence is obviously better.

That isn't a flat out fact since it is far eisier for the opponent to get rid of your field presence then hand.

 

Keeping all cards you draw in your hand and losing quickly is real pro. You gain the effects of the monsters while they're on the field and you can use them for Tribute/Sync fodder.

 

Krebons doesn't automatically beat out any LV4 in existence in any situation.

Any level 4 doesn't beat out Krebons in any situation.

 

Any Level 4 you want beats Krebons in more situations than Krebons beats any Level 4 you want.

[Santi :D]

limit'd ftw

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

1 card OTK' date=' crazy powerful, I don't think it's broken, though.

[/quote']

 

It is still technically a 3 card OTK if you count the total cost required to achieve the OTK.

 

And yes. Good card is good and not even broken. Whoever thinks this deserves to be at a number other than 3 on a good list needs to know what a good list looks like and not make proposed ban list changes based on the current Meta. Anything this could be abused with would be banned on a good list.

[Smeg]

OCG name is better.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

OCG name is better.

 

That's why I refuse to call Summon Priest by its TCG name.

[Flame Dragon]

That's aside from the point' date=' it IS "limit", and I'm arguing for the ban or at least limitation of Summon Priest. Priest alone can get a Synchro. By using its effect, it can single-handedly get you a Synchro, which can also be Level 6 with Road Synchron. The majority of good Synchros are Level 6 or 8 in the first place, not to mention Tele still forces you to get a Synchro from the levels you have. Which facts am I supposed to be checking?[/u']

Doesn't matter if it is. I'm saying that on a good list Tele shouldn't be at one, same goes for Priest. You called Priest unlimited.

 

Getting a second monster on the field is harder than having a Spell in your hand. With this' date=' you'll already have the two monsters you need to Sync. With Tele, you still need to find a way to Summon another monster for a Sync if you haven't done so yet. Then that monster needs to be a certain Level to ensure you're getting a good Synchro. You can't go wrong with Level 8 Synchros.[/u']

How? You don't have two monsters with this. you have 1, and you need a spell to make the second monster. In the opening hand you should always have at least 1 monster you can summon. Summon one monster, Tele the tuner. Their is at least 1 target for every level of synchro. Their is at least on good target per level. you can't go wrong with a level 8, but you also can't go wrong with a 5, 6, or 7.

 

Field presence' date=' and you can get 2 Synchros out of it if you also manage to Special Summon a Tuner that turn or had previously Summoned one.[/u']

Yes, at max, the 2 Priest and one Stardust is a lot of field presence. Odds are the two Priest won't make much of a difference then you only having the Stardust since if your opponent can get rid of the one Stardust, odds are they can also get rid of the, again at max, 2 Priests. Also the Prists effects will be of little use if you did swarm since tha just cost you 3 in hand spells meaning you'll likely need to top deck another spell to make use of their effect. Also you can't pull some random tuner out of the air. Your looking at the stand alone card, you can't pull a random tuner from the air.

 

The free field presence IS free if DD works. Why pick DD when there're so many other targets? Good question. DDs just an extra niceity when you have the versatility of Summoner. The versatility's the biggest problem.

If it works. Besides you don't what card you'll get if it does work. How is it a neceity? Neceity means that you need him' date=' but I don't think many decks will run DD solely because they have Priest. DD doesn't create much versatility, since with Priest you want the spells in your hand to make use of Priest's effect.

 

Plague can't bang out a Synchro single-handedly. Plague's theme support. There're only 2 possible combinations of 40-60 cards that can use Cat? I lol'd.

[//quote]

This can't bring out a synchro single handly. You need a spell. Plague isn't theme support. I never siad that. I said I know of only two decks that can make use of Cat, those being Beasts and GBs. Without Airbellum, which would be banned on a good list, their aren't many cards I can think of that can go into any deck that would be helped by Cat. If their are more, I'm all ears.

 

Accessing other copies of itself. Limit actually sounds about right to me. We have an agreement? :P

The only thing that change with him at 1 is you can't get 2 more copies. What can those two compies do? If you swarm then odds are your out of spells to make use of his effect unless you top deck another one. You can't tribute them and odds are you won't be able to use their effect. You can attack with them but doing 1600 point of damage isn't much' date=' and you can't even do that the turn they come out meaning your opponent can easily get rid of them.

 

So that leaves you with the 1 Synchro they can get out. That fact doesn't change if he's at 1 of 3, and seeing as how getting out level 8 synchros isn't hard in the least I see no need to ban a card that makes it only a bit easier.

 

2 Summoner Monks = 3 monsters ≠ 1 Stardust.

Again, I never said that. I said the fact that the Priests are their makes little difference then if you had just the Stardust.

You had to say this twice?

Yes' date=' because you think an extra 2 Priest which can't do much fro reasons outlines above breaks the card.

 

Let me rephrase that. Any Spell becoming an extra LV4 1800 ATK monster's worth of field presence AND a Hero to the hand is a bit of a problem. A Hero in hand can have various uses, it can be used as discard fodder or in D-Heroes' case D-Draw. It can also be Diamond Dude or Plasma, Plasma can be used also as Trade-In fodder. And then on the E-Heroes' side you could get Prisma.

Fair enough. But does the simple fact that you can do this break the card? No. They just have good synergy, like Cat and GB Samite + Test Tiger. It's simply good not broken.

 

Even factoring in CCV and Airbellum' date=' my stance on Monk doesn't change. Should still be Limited.[/u']

Read above. Limiting it changes it very little.

 

Yes it does. Summoner + its effect = LV8 Sync' date=' single-handedly done by Summoner.[/u']

Get this through your head. You need a spell. The need of the spell doesn't make it single handed. The fact that you need a spell and Priest means that it is the same parts you need for Tele and a random monster. Seeing as how the latter combo isn't broken this isn't either.

 

Well' date=' you have around 250 viable Summon Priest targets for Deck construction, but in more than 1 copy, Summoner is a problem due to its field presence.[/u']

Read above.

 

Keeping all cards you draw in your hand and losing quickly is real pro. You gain the effects of the monsters while they're on the field and you can use them for Tribute/Sync fodder.

I never said that. I said you can't mindlessly swarm with Priest seeing as how your opponent can just laugh at you if they have Mirror Force or TT face down' date=' or Vortex in hand.

Same goes for Instant Fusion. Should that be banned?

 

Any Level 4 you want beats Krebons in more situations than Krebons beats any Level 4 you want.

Fair enough. But what is wrong with getting the one level 4 for the one spell that you need to drop? Don't say you can take another Priest.

[「tea.leaf」]

who cares. if it makes it easier to synchro summon' date=' i say it's worth it.

[/quote']

 

EHA post right there.

[lingguang]

Summon Monk + Summon Monk + Rescue cat = 2 Lv7 Synchro Monster

If you have 1 Summon Monk and 2 spell card, it's will be 2 Lv7 Synchro Monster (=o=)

That's what OCG player do.

 

it's a lot of Synchro deck key card is Summon Monk + Rescue cat

 

PS: a lv3 best tuner is comming soon(in a start deck

[Flame Dragon]

Summon Monk + Summon Monk + Rescue cat = 2 Lv7 Synchro Monster

If you have 1 Summon Monk and 2 spell card' date=' it's will be 2 Lv7 Synchro Monster (=o=)

That's what OCG player do.

 

it's a lot of Synchro deck key card is Summon Monk + Rescue cat

 

PS: a lv3 best tuner is comming soon(in a start deck

[/quote']

Old combo. Banning the Tuner fixs this.

 

We know

[iAmNateXero]

Good card is Good.

[/topic]

[lingguang]

I can't wait the X-saber Monsters in the new Yusei SD