Official Bleach Discussion Thread

[Βyakuya]

[spoiler=Thoughts]

Huh. Didn't see that one coming. It makes me think Allon back in the Fake Karakura-Town arc was OP-ed to the max, but it seems we've underestimate him. Kirgie seems likely he'll activate an ability to gain an advantage over Allon, since it seems he was holding back. Anyways, chapter was not bad, however it seemed quick again with Kubo trying to fit Allon vs. Kirgie in this one chapter. There's also a nice metaphor and reminder about the Quincies and Shinigami, but it I believe more in-depth pictures or diagrams would be nicer.

 

[Tainted Wisdom]

http://thatguywithth...f-bleach-part-1

 

Part 1 = Part 2 and that makes me happy, because Y Ruler is a good reviewer.

 

I agree to an extent that Aizen's reveal was it's peak moment, though I truly believe that Bleach's downfall began after Ichigo's final confrontation with Ulquiorra. To me, what drained the serious was the gradual lack of Ichigo's hollow side attempting to take over. I loved it when he lost control and gave in to him, it made me wonder what would he do this time. Though when he "mastered" his hollow side, it became monotonous as there was no longer an internal struggle for power. I still like Bleach to this day, though the attachement has definitely dwindled.

[Phantom Roxas]

The problem with the battle against Shirogetsu is how little of it we saw, which was a problem that plagued most the latter half of the Karakura Town arc, as their became too many fights going on that the story focused on a few at a time, leaving other fights such as the battles with Yammy to be glossed over.

[Dr. Cakey]

I have avoided this topic for years for fear of spoilers. Thanks to SJ Alpha I...still have to worry about it, but not quite as much. Anyway.

 

Y Ruler was 100% spot-on with that review, particularly in how he explained that Bleach decayed. It's not just Bleach stayed the same but less awesome, it actually gradually, bit by bit, stopped being Bleach.

I agree to an extent that Aizen's reveal was it's peak moment, though I truly believe that Bleach's downfall began after Ichigo's final confrontation with Ulquiorra. To me, what drained the serious was the gradual lack of Ichigo's hollow side attempting to take over. I loved it when he lost control and gave in to him, it made me wonder what would he do this time. Though when he "mastered" his hollow side, it became monotonous as there was no longer an internal struggle for power. I still like Bleach to this day, though the attachement has definitely dwindled.

I would say that Ulquiorra's fight was a bright spot, but the downfall really began...well, actually, it's hard for me to judge, since I watched the anime, including filler, so the quality morphed quite a bit for me and I got used to that. The half of the Hueco Mundo arc before they reached Las Noches was bad, at least for me, then some things in Las Noches, like the fights with Nnoitra and Szayelaporro were awful as well (speaking of Szayelaporro, and this is a massive tangent, but that particular fight is really weird for me, because almost every part of it is abysmal, but I liked Szayelaporro anyway. Then Mayuri appeared to fight him and I totally lost it, because Mayuri is hands down the most vile character in the entire show. Szayelaporro's biggest crime is having pink hair - Mayuri is a psychopath who enjoys torturing people to death. Who am I supposed to root for again?)

 

Then came the slow as concrete Fake Karakura Town arc, notable because it was so slow even Tite Kubo got pissed and had Aizen forcibly end the fighting (and apparently, in the current arc, Halibel survived by using the Espada power of Estando Off El Screen, which allows the user to reverse death so long as the camera is watching somebody else's fight), which introduced my second favorite Espada, Coyote Stark - another fight which Kubo ended forcibly (You know how attacks are useless against those soul-wolf-things? Yeah, never mind that. Also, apparently destroying them kills Lilinette, even though they attack by exploding, which makes no sense. kthxbai). Actually, all those fights were ended by cheap convenience.

 

The Aizen fight was decent - setting aside the minor details that Ichigo received an unexplained power via plot convenience due to circumstances existing only due to plot convenience and that Ichigo never actually defeats Aizen - since it at least moved along at a good clip and it was satisfying to watch Ichigo be totally unaffected by all of Aizen's attacks, but the ending sucked of course (and made no sense, since Ichigo was already infinitely stronger than Aizen - why did he use his unnecessary (and, doubly ironic, ineffectual) final attack?). Then Aizen implies with his final speech that he actually has some other motive besides pure world domination...and then he turns into a Christmas ornament.

 

Then the Fullbringer arc happened.

 

EDIT: lol long post

[Kakashi Hatake]

What are we currently discussing?

[Tainted Wisdom]

We're pretty much discussing the downfall point of Bleach in our own perspectives. Though, my opinion would probably be different if I hadn't watched all the filler arcs.

[Phantom Roxas]

Szayelaporro ate his own Fracciones, basically raped Nemu to revive himself, and also used torture because of his voodoo doll. The entire point of the later Hueco Mundo Espada battles was to have the similar characters fight, namely Mayuri vs. Szayelaporro and Kenpachi vs. Nnoitra. I'm not denying that Mayuri is despicable, but saying Szayelaporro's only crime is having pink hair is simply not a funny joke.

 

They explained why Ichigo could get the new power sufficiently, but the problem is that the battle with Shirogetsu was glossed over, and we only saw the end of it via flashback. Using the Final Getsuga Tensho was necessary because Aizen kept evolving in order to adapt to fight other moments, and while I agree that I would have preferred if Ichigo was the one to defeat Aizen, but in a way, he really is. Kisuke used a technique that didn't actually activate until Ichigo weakened Aizen, essentially making Aizen's defeat a joint effort between Kisuke and Ichigo.

[Flame Dragon]

I agree to an extent that Aizen's reveal was it's peak moment, though I truly believe that Bleach's downfall began after Ichigo's final confrontation with Ulquiorra. To me, what drained the serious was the gradual lack of Ichigo's hollow side attempting to take over. I loved it when he lost control and gave in to him, it made me wonder what would he do this time. Though when he "mastered" his hollow side, it became monotonous as there was no longer an internal struggle for power. I still like Bleach to this day, though the attachement has definitely dwindled.

While I do agree that after the final fight with Ulquiorra is where the series really started to fall, but I think it is because of a different reason. After the Aizen reveal things did slow down, but you would expect that. Nothing really felt short changed and the pace was fine. This was still their when they invaded Hueco Mundo. It was during the Karakura Town arc that I feel things just started becoming bla. The fights were for the most part short and yet some how things felt like they were dragging. This got worse during the the second half of that arc. Personally the fight with Baraggan was the last high point since it felt like a drag out fight and for a "final boss" so to speak that felt right. But then we have the rest.

 

The top espada was beaten stupidly easily taking only a handful of attacks and the third was just thrown away by Aizen. Tosen also had an anticlimactic death getting taken out very simply. Then Yammy turning out to be the "strongest" but made to be a joke AND having that fight finished off panal was just stupid. Same goes for Wonderweiss. Worse of all during what should be the hardest battle the characters will ever face MOST DIDN'T USE THEIR BANKAI!!! WHY??? That is your strongest attack and your fighting INCREDIBLY strong opponents DON'T HOLD BACK! That is, clearly, one of the things that bugged me most. Also, lets not forget that VERY important chapter that had Aizen just walking around chasing Ichigo's friends just cause. Hell, a lot of chapters just felt like they were spinning their wheels having very little actually happen. Sure, when taken as a collective that isn't the case, but for something that comes out one chapter at a time this shouldn't be the happening since it makes people loss interests when, after a month of chapters, it feels like you aren't getting anywhere. This fact is also clearly seen when even a long chapter of Bleach takes at max 5 min to read.

 

They explained why Ichigo could get the new power sufficiently, but the problem is that the battle with Shirogetsu was glossed over, and we only saw the end of it via flashback. Using the Final Getsuga Tensho was necessary because Aizen kept evolving in order to adapt to fight other moments, and while I agree that I would have preferred if Ichigo was the one to defeat Aizen, but in a way, he really is. Kisuke used a technique that didn't actually activate until Ichigo weakened Aizen, essentially making Aizen's defeat a joint effort between Kisuke and Ichigo.

I always thought that Aizen got trapped in his bubble thing because he went crazy and just lost control of the power. Sure Ichigo helped speed that along, but seems like that was going to happen regardless given a big enough push. As such I don't think the Final Getsuga Tensho wasn't worth while since Ichigo clearly as strong to give that push and that alone should have been enough to cause the Hogyoku to reject Aizen trapping him.

 

Also, speaking of, watching Aizenmon for over 10 chapter was honestly getting boring. He had more make overs in that short time then you average women in a graphic novel series.

[Kakashi Hatake]

We're pretty much discussing the downfall point of Bleach in our own perspectives. Though, my opinion would probably be different if I hadn't watched all the filler arcs.

I don't know why you guys are still discussing this. We get it already, you don't like several aspects of Bleach. Stop spreading your d*mn theories onto why Bleach died in your eyes or has continued to be unoriginal and start looking at how Bleach is getting along or find something new to fill Bleach's hole in your life.

 

Yes, the filler arcs lowered my opinion of Bleach but I still like it. I don't have much love left for the current generation of sh*tty anime, but Bleach and such is as good as it's going to get in this decade or so.

[Dr. Cakey]

Szayelaporro ate his own Fracciones, basically raped Nemu to revive himself, and also used torture because of his voodoo doll. The entire point of the later Hueco Mundo Espada battles was to have the similar characters fight, namely Mayuri vs. Szayelaporro and Kenpachi vs. Nnoitra. I'm not denying that Mayuri is despicable, but saying Szayelaporro's only crime is having pink hair is simply not a funny joke.

Again, I'm not exactly sure why I like Szayelaporro. I guess all the nasty stuff he did didn't have a lot of impact for me for some reason. Maybe all the stupid stuff that happened in the fight just glossed over everything for me (and the anime censored some of the material - that might've helped, too). Virtually nothing in that fight had the slightest bit of rationality.

 

1. This room is Bankai-proof. Yeah, I can just do that. Maybe I should've made it Bankai and Shikai-proof?

2. It's also Quincy-proof. How am I doing this stuff, anyway?

3. And now we take a five minute break. I think this is an excuse for everyone to recover their Spiritual Energy...which means all the previous fighting had no purpose, doesn't it?

4. Kay, I'm back. I also turned off whatever it is that prevented you from using Bankai and your Quincy powers. I'll think up a good reason why later. In the mean time, Sip, Fornicaras!

5. So apparently I can infinitely clone my opponent, except the clones are immortal. Damn, why I am I only octavo, again?

 

6. What's that? Goo-clones are banned in tournaments? I guess instead I'll use this extremely easy to dodge attack that no one dodges that lets me rupture your organs. I just blew up your stomach, so theoretically you should be dead, but I've never been much for theory, anyway.

7. Hello, Mayuri here. Since these chapters only come out once a week, I've had like a month to prepare for this fight. For example, I've replaced all my organs with fakes! I'm not sure how that works either, but it's all extremely scientific, I can assure you of that.

8. In case you've forgotten, my Bankai inflicts the Doom status, so unless you have a One-Winged Angel form or can somehow implant yourself into another body and regenerate yourself in a matter of seconds, you're pretty much screw - oh f*** me. Or, more accurately, f*** Nemu. Ha, rape jokes! I love 'em.

9. Szayelaporro Jr. here, not to be confused with Cell Junior. Since your Bankai is organic, I can take control of it. I mean, it looks organic. Close enough, right?

10. You've activated my trap! I have equipped my Bankai with a self-destruct device, just in case I ever faced an opponent with the ability to implant themselves into organic materials and take control of them. You can never be too careful. And speaking of traps, I activate Deus ex Machina Level 10! I can activate this card when my opponent's monster Special Summons itself from the Graveyard by implanting its DNA into one of my monsters, and allows me to transfer an Equip Card equipped to my monster onto one of yours. The card I choose is...Paralyzing Potion! Me, attack Szayelaporro directly with Bizarre Lecture Attack!

 

They explained why Ichigo could get the new power sufficiently, but the problem is that the battle with Shirogetsu was glossed over, and we only saw the end of it via flashback. Using the Final Getsuga Tensho was necessary because Aizen kept evolving in order to adapt to fight other moments, and while I agree that I would have preferred if Ichigo was the one to defeat Aizen, but in a way, he really is. Kisuke used a technique that didn't actually activate until Ichigo weakened Aizen, essentially making Aizen's defeat a joint effort between Kisuke and Ichigo.

Did I miss something? So far as I recall, it went something like, "Ichigo, you need to learn the Final Getsugatensho." "What's that?" "A thing."

Meanwhile, while Ichigo is training in the Room of Time and Spirit, Aizen is using all of his power in an attempt to defeat several schoolchildren, but is unable to manage more than a slow walk, even though simply being close to them should be enough to kill them. So while Ichigo has grown infinitely more powerful, Aizen has shed every single power he previously had, and we now simply need to take his word for it that he's awesome. For maximum hilarity, he comments how surprised he is by the amount of damage he does to the landscape when he fights Ichigo, even though the destruction is relatively minor compared to that wrought by the fight between Ichigo and Kenpachi, when Ichigo's power level was a good millionth of what it is now. Ichigo proves himself strong enough to stop Aizen's sword with one finger and so fast Aizen is unable to follow him, but Aizen has convenient healing powers, and it's a damn good thing, because otherwise this would be over in an instant. Ichigo then uses the most powerful attack in the entire universe (barring any more powerful ones), which Aizen heals from immediately, although he is now missing his sundry butterfly wings and such. However, he insists he is in fact transitioning into an even more powerful form. Presumably he's deluding himself, but since we were just supposed to trust him that he was becoming more powerful before, I don't see why I shouldn't believe him now. Urahara then reveals that he had previously cast Petrify on Aizen, and Mugetsu was so powerful it entered the source code and turned off Aizen's boss flag. Aizen is then about to reveal major spoilers about the next arc (If we're lucky. If we're unlucky, it will never be resolved), so the mods ban him and turn him into a Grief Seed before he can do so (I'm all over the place with the references today, aren't I?).

 

In post-game, the two most idiotic and self-absorbed entities in all of Bleach - Aizen and the Central 46 - insult each other for a while, and Aizen is sentenced to infinity billion years in jail, where we are apparently just supposed to trust his powers will not return or something. He was wrapped in black tape, which seems like the sort of thing that would nullify powers, but we all know power-nullifying tape wouldn't stop a flea if the plot demanded it. Also, since Aizen is immortal, we are left to assume that after his infinity billion year sentence ends he will then be freed and will slaughter everyone anyway, which kind of puts a damper on things.

 

I'm taking suggestions for what I should complain about next.

[Phantom Roxas]

Agreed on how the Szayelaporro fight makes no sense, mostly because it took so long and Szayelaporro was ridiculously overpowered and playful, although I think he should have only been septima.

 

I maintain that Ichigo's training actually did make sense, and it justified why Isshin was supposedly a human at first, although I don't they ever explained how he got his powers back if he supposedly used the Final Getsuga Tensho, because otherwise, how would he have known about it? Aizen's power was definitely inconsistent, and he suffered massive character derailment by going from the calm and manipulative mastermind that he once was to a maniac heavily reliant on a magic cube, and it basically got tired of giving him new forms, which is why he wasn't transitioning into another more powerful form. Fortunately, he regained his normal composure during his trial, and I agree that Central 46 is filled with the most self-important arrogant jerks in the entire series.

[Tainted Wisdom]

One other thing I was quite annoyed about, was that after the very first seasons where it was setting a base ground and developing the characters, Kubo kind of just stopped advancing further into the character's relations. Albeit it may have still been slow, but there was no major event that would normally bring you closer to that character. In my opinion the biggest event in those regards would probably when Orihime gets knapped by Ulquiorra and goes to bid farewell to Ichigo. That gave us a much bigger view on her feelings for him but then what? She couldn't even follow through, and on top of that Kubo threw the idea out and seemingly "friend zoned" them.

[Flame Dragon]

One other thing I was quite annoyed about, was that after the very first seasons where it was setting a base ground and developing the characters, Kubo kind of just stopped advancing further into the character's relations. Albeit it may have still been slow, but there was no major event that would normally bring you closer to that character. In my opinion the biggest event in those regards would probably when Orihime gets knapped by Ulquiorra and goes to bid farewell to Ichigo. That gave us a much bigger view on her feelings for him but then what? She couldn't even follow through, and on top of that Kubo threw the idea out and seemingly "friend zoned" them.

Tp be fair, writing in character interaction is hard when everyone is fighting off in their own little world.

 

 

I don't know why you guys are still discussing this. We get it already, you don't like several aspects of Bleach. Stop spreading your d*mn theories onto why Bleach died in your eyes or has continued to be unoriginal and start looking at how Bleach is getting along or find something new to fill Bleach's hole in your life.

 

Yes, the filler arcs lowered my opinion of Bleach but I still like it. I don't have much love left for the current generation of sh*tty anime, but Bleach and such is as good as it's going to get in this decade or so.

Um....no? Bleach was at one point a very good series. I personally was very invested in it and it helped getting me reading manga. Hell, it was the first series I remember reading online. Watching it fall to become the shell of its former self is upsetting because I held it in such high regards. As such it is only human to try to figure out what went wrong.

 

Why do you seem so offended that we are "spreading our d*mn theories onto why Bleach died in your eyes or has continued to be unoriginal"? If your still enjoying it, that is fine and good, but you can't ignor that fact that it is almost universally agreed the series has fallen and we are more than fully have the right to talk about what killed the series for us individually since clearly everyone has a different take on it. And thats just it, it is OUR opinion, and you are more than welcome to ignor it. And it isn't a hole in my life, try my heart. It sounds melodramatic, but again I loved the series and it sucks watching it erode over time.

 

No one here was talking about the anime since personally I feel most live and die by the manga that created them. If you think about it the abundance of filler was partly due TO the manga since, again, so little happens per chapter the anime can't help but catch up in the blink of an eye.

[Tainted Wisdom]

Tp be fair, writing in character interaction is hard when everyone is fighting off in their own little world.

 

Very true, though I find it hard to grasp why Kubo stopped with it. If you look at Bleach now, one would not suspect that Orihime even went that far to express her feelings. Even her subtle feelings for Ulquiorra were disregarded, along with how Ichigo never went further into the issue on why she cried for him [ulquiorra]. Moreover, why is it only Orihime that's had that development? Other than her, off the top of my head Rukia x Kaien, and Rangiku x Gin were the only ones with a deeper relationship. Even then, I'm sure Kubo could have touched more on those easily.

[Fusion X. Denver]

No one here was talking about the anime since personally I feel most live and die by the manga that created them. If you think about it the abundance of filler was partly due TO the manga since, again, so little happens per chapter the anime can't help but catch up in the blink of an eye.

 

I wouldn't even say partly. The main purpose of fillers is to allow the manga further time to get ahead as well as maintain a consistent release of new content for its viewers every week. Kubo's chapters had too little content and forced erroneous amounts of filler. This dilemma was most evident during the last 2 arcs of the anime. After a decent-sized filler arc, Studio Pierrot had no choice but to move on to the Fullbring arc and even in that, they forced filler scenes such as Tsukishima vs Chad/Orihime or another Hollow attacking Ichigo's sister. And in the meantime, the manga had slow progress in advancing the story ahead of the anime.

 

It took me a little longer to note Bleach's decline. When I joined other forums besides this one, I saw a general consensus from the comments I've seen that Bleach is not what it used to be and it has several problems. The Oricon sales showcasing its fall from the Big 3 was also a huge wake-up call.

And that video Flame posted clarified a lot of things too. When I took another look, I realized the Arrancar arc had pretty much the exact same set-up as the Soul Society arc. The Fullbring arc adopted some of the same tropes as well, such as a new species group dragging Ichigo into their own affairs.

 

I think Bleach's problem is a problem that I've become familiar with through writing: its cast is too big.

Kubo once confessed that oftentimes when he was stuck writing a storyline, he'd make a new character to spice things up. Well that's all well and good, but do it enough and you've got too many.

Soul Society's arc practically tripled the cast size. And then the Arrancar arc doubled it.

The main problem, to me, is that with all these characters, others that were important get neglected, like Chad. And character development becomes much more uneven and unbalanced. The main well-developed characters I can think of are Ichigo, Rukia, Byakuya, Renji, Ulquiorra, and Ishida, to name a few. But so many other characters are unable to gain the same opportunities and stay static.

You could say lots of other series would have the same problem then, but other series haven't spent an arc or two focusing on these other characters. Kubo would have done better by not making a character of every important seat in the Gotei 13; the Fake Karakura Town arc would have been handled much better by only focusing on the fights with the Espada and Captains, not the Vices and Fraccions.

[Flame Dragon]

I think Bleach's problem is a problem that I've become familiar with through writing: its cast is too big.

Kubo once confessed that oftentimes when he was stuck writing a storyline, he'd make a new character to spice things up. Well that's all well and good, but do it enough and you've got too many.

Soul Society's arc practically tripled the cast size. And then the Arrancar arc doubled it.

The main problem, to me, is that with all these characters, others that were important get neglected, like Chad. And character development becomes much more uneven and unbalanced. The main well-developed characters I can think of are Ichigo, Rukia, Byakuya, Renji, Ulquiorra, and Ishida, to name a few. But so many other characters are unable to gain the same opportunities and stay static.

You could say lots of other series would have the same problem then, but other series haven't spent an arc or two focusing on these other characters. Kubo would have done better by not making a character of every important seat in the Gotei 13; the Fake Karakura Town arc would have been handled much better by only focusing on the fights with the Espada and Captains, not the Vices and Fraccions.

Large casts is certainly another falling point of Bleach. But to be honest aside from forgetting some characters exists like what he did Nel and Yammy for some time, I don't think Bleach is the worse offender. The main/popular characters always get more screen time, and at the very least the first half of the Fake Karakura Town arc at least spent most of that time on the secondary and tertiary characters. With a large cast like Bleach it is to be expected that some characters will get the shaft as time passes. Hell, even DBZ did this. One of the few examples I can think of that doesn't is One Piece and that is simply because of its island hoping nature making it harder for past characters to show up again. And even than they DO continue to be seen in the various cover stories.

[Sunshine Jesse]

I don't think Bleach had a downfall. I just think it fell down hard around the Vaizard arc and hasn't been able to get back up since. Everything about that arc was just terrible >_>

[Kakashi Hatake]

Um....no? Bleach was at one point a very good series. I personally was very invested in it and it helped getting me reading manga. Hell, it was the first series I remember reading online. Watching it fall to become the shell of its former self is upsetting because I held it in such high regards. As such it is only human to try to figure out what went wrong.

 

Why do you seem so offended that we are "spreading our d*mn theories onto why Bleach died in your eyes or has continued to be unoriginal"? If your still enjoying it, that is fine and good, but you can't ignor that fact that it is almost universally agreed the series has fallen and we are more than fully have the right to talk about what killed the series for us individually since clearly everyone has a different take on it. And thats just it, it is OUR opinion, and you are more than welcome to ignor it. And it isn't a hole in my life, try my heart. It sounds melodramatic, but again I loved the series and it sucks watching it erode over time.

 

No one here was talking about the anime since personally I feel most live and die by the manga that created them. If you think about it the abundance of filler was partly due TO the manga since, again, so little happens per chapter the anime can't help but catch up in the blink of an eye.

I was going to type up a big reply to that but I've been really frustrated at my computer lately and I accidentally hit the Refresh key after I typed it all up so all I'm going to say is this:

 

The series never died. A series is created with the ending pre-perceived so Bleach has always been the same series you read back in the Rescue Rukia thing. It never died, it never changed. It's just been the series you unfortunately decided to invest feelings into the whole time, so you can only blame yourself for liking the series.

[Flame Dragon]

I was going to type up a big reply to that but I've been really frustrated at my computer lately and I accidentally hit the Refresh key after I typed it all up so all I'm going to say is this:

 

The series never died. A series is created with the ending pre-perceived so Bleach has always been the same series you read back in the Rescue Rukia thing. It never died, it never changed. It's just been the series you unfortunately decided to invest feelings into the whole time, so you can only blame yourself for liking the series.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.....WHAT!!!! Their are SOOOOO many things wrong with what you just said, so lets count the ways.

 

1) I never used the word "died". A dead series and one that has fallen from grace are 2 very different things.

 

2) Um, no they don't. Aside from bare basic how a series ends is almost never fully formed in the creators head. Even if it is, it will NEVER reach that part if the story is moving in an organic way. Lets look at DBZ. The series was going to end with Frezia, it didn't. Clearly Toriyama had no idea what was going to after that and even then I REALLY don't think when DB started he imagined the series becoming what it did by the time they reached Frezia. Getting back to Bleach, Kubo has gone on the record that when he has trouble writing he starts making up characters, so he obviously had no who would be involved with how Ichigo would get his powers back.

 

3) A series should ALWAYS change.

Where is one of my favorite quotes

"A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life"

and it holds for almost everything in life, including this.

This is a simple fact of life, and if it did never change after years passing than series has already failed. You should never fight this change, rather accept it as a part of life and make the most of it. One Piece now is NOTHING like how it was when it started. The same is true for DBZ, FMA, Naruto, EVERY SERIES EVER. And hell, EVERYONE has said/is saying that something has changed about Bleach compaired to where it was several years ago. So either we are all wrong or your wrong, and it isn't hard to guess what is the more likely answer.

 

4) Now, the Pièce de résistance. Your blaming ME for LIKING the series. Are you mad? Should I NOT like the series? Should I NOT get invested in the characters and the story? What in the hell is the point of reading or do anything if I shouldn't get invested in it?

 

It sucks that a series I like so much has gotten so much worse, but again I never expect Bleach not to change. It sucks that it changed for the worse and I simply want to figure out where it went wrong.

[Kakashi Hatake]

I thought you guys already figured out that it went wrong when it began to replay scenarios.

[Phantom Roxas]

Actually, Kubo had not known how he would end the series for a while, and I wouldn't necessarily agree that a series is created with the ending planned out. I'll definitely agree that you should know where you want to take the series, but you never know how the series will truly end, and it could always change over time as the series develops, unless you take these new developments in a way that leads to your original ending.

 

Hopefully Kubo actually does know the ending now if this is supposed to be the final arc, otherwise he just knows that he wants to end it with this storyline, which could take years, and he's just going to think about how the ending will be like as he writes it. I'm curious if this was decided by Kubo on his own or if it was editorially mandated. While we can debate whether or not Bleach has declined as a story, you can't deny that it's losing its popularity to something that isn't Beelzebub Toriko, so maybe Shonen Jump caught on to that and basically cancelled the series by asking Kubo to make this the final arc.

[Flame Dragon]

I thought you guys already figured out that it went wrong when it began to replay scenarios.

It isn't that cut and dry. While the series started to stagnate during the Hueco Mundo arc I feel it went down hill during the Karakura Town arc and that didn't really replay scenarios from earlier in the series. At least not in the blatantly obvious way of female friend gets kidnapped, invade enemy base, fight bosses.

 

Hopefully Kubo actually does know the ending now if this is supposed to be the final arc, otherwise he just knows that he wants to end it with this storyline, which could take years, and he's just going to think about how the ending will be like as he writes it. I'm curious if this was decided by Kubo on his own or if it was editorially mandated. While we can debate whether or not Bleach has declined as a story, you can't deny that it's losing its popularity to something that isn't Beelzebub Toriko, so maybe Shonen Jump caught on to that and basically cancelled the series by asking Kubo to make this the final arc.

I'm really hoping that the break he took before we started this arc was him working out the final line the series will take.

 

I think it is mostly on Kubo. He has been doing Bleach for a long time and it has been obvious that he has been running out of steam for a while. And to be fair writing the same story for a long time can be draining and even he must have felt some frustration in how long the War with Aizen dragged. Personally I think the ending would have been good if the series ended with Ichigo lossing his powers since his job was done and all the major plot points had been covered. However some plot points were still open and their were still some things left to explore. Knowing he didn't have much left I think Kubo wanted to give it one more go to see if he can do a better job a second time around with the few things he had.

 

Granted that is all just a theory, so I may just be crazy.

[Kakashi Hatake]

It isn't that cut and dry. While the series started to stagnate during the Hueco Mundo arc I feel it went down hill during the Karakura Town arc and that didn't really replay scenarios from earlier in the series.

I kinda lost interest during the non-ichigo parts in the Hueco Mundo arc. xD

 

At least not in the blatantly obvious way of female friend gets kidnapped, invade enemy base, fight bosses.

Sounds like the Mario games. Ichigo gets to Hueco Mundo. "I'm sorry, your Orihime is in another castle." xDD

[Flame Dragon]

And so we have part 2

http://thatguywithth...f-bleach-part-2

 

Like the first time around I agree with most everything he said.

[Phantom Roxas]

Agreed with his points. It reminds me that I have to catch up on WMR. Hopefully the Kirge Opie battle ends soon, because I really do not care about this battle.